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Is Intelligent design real science?


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Caliban

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According to new article by Ann Reid of the NCSE “...the proportion of US secondary-school biology teachers who present creationism as a scientifically valid alternative to evolution fell from 32% in 2007 to 18% in 2019” (E. Plutzer et al. Evo. Edu. Outreach 13, 14; 2020). I am curious what people on this forum think of this recent finding.
Is this a positive or a negative trend?


(For the purpose of this forum, creationism will include intelligent design as per Kitzmiller v. Dover.)
 

pitabread

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That doesn't surprise me. Creationism as a whole is on a downward trend demographically speaking. That we would see fewer teachers pushing creationism as science (which it isn't), seems to fall in line with the broader decline of creationist beliefs.
 
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Caliban

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That doesn't surprise me. Creationism as a whole is on a downward trend demographically speaking. That we would see fewer teachers pushing creationism as science (which it isn't), seems to fall in line with the broader decline of creationist beliefs.
That's interesting. Do you think Creationism is also on the decline in faith communities? I can't tell and don't see any data on it. I know that Answers in Genesis is still very active, but I don't know if their message is growing in popularity or not.
 
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hedrick

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There has been a sharp drop in creationist belief in the last few years according to Gallup. This article Creationism support is at new low. The reason should give us hope. claims that it reflects changes among Chritisns, but I can’t find that in the Gallup poll they cite. However changes in religious makeup are too slow to explain the change in belief on creation, so I assume they are right.

flucuations in belief happen all the time, and although sharp, the change is small, so it’s not clear that this is a permanent change.
 
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Caliban

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There has been a sharp drop in creationist belief in the last few years according to Gallup. This article Creationism support is at new low. The reason should give us hope. claims that it reflects changes among Chritisns, but I can’t find that in the Gallup poll they cite. However changes in religious makeup are too slow to explain the change in belief on creation, so I assume they are right.

flucuations in belief happen all the time, and although sharp, the change is small, so it’s not clear that this is a permanent change.
That's a great article--thanks. It included this Gallup poll that I thought was horrifying, but it was from 2012.
 
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Caliban

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Biblical Creationism should be taught as a part of a World Religions class but it does not belong in the science classroom.
Agreed. But I don't know of any non-university level public school that teaches a world religion course. Is there one?

Edit:
Actually, I found one.
 
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hedrick

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  • Agreed. But I don't know of any non-university level public school that teaches a world religion course. Is there one?

    Edit:
    Actually, I found one.
    It should be taught in American history. It’s a sufficiently important thing to merit mention.
 
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Caliban

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  • It should be taught in American history. It’s a sufficiently important thing to merit mention.
I agree. I teach Shakespeare and during one lesson I had to explain to my students who Adam and Eve are. Without understanding the basic tenants of the worlds religions, you will not fully understand the allusions of great works of art or of basic conversation. I don't think a person can consider themself educated unless the have a working knowledge of the major religious texts of the last few thousand years.
 
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Hank77

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Biblical Creationism should be taught as a part of a World Religions class but it does not belong in the science classroom.
It was included in my grandson's high school World History and Culture class.

@Caliban
 
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pitabread

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That's interesting. Do you think Creationism is also on the decline in faith communities? I can't tell and don't see any data on it. I know that Answers in Genesis is still very active, but I don't know if their message is growing in popularity or not.

It appears it is on the decline within Christianity as well.

For example, this analysis shows that among millennials even those who identify as "religious fundamentalists" are less likely to be creationists: Millennials turn away from Creationism

In the long run, this likely will have a detrimental impact on creationist organizations. Even AiG's theme park hasn't attracted the level of visitors they were originally predicting.
 
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comana

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Agreed. But I don't know of any non-university level public school that teaches a world religion course. Is there one?

Edit:
Actually, I found one.
That is a fair question that I didn’t consider. Thinking back I am not sure world religions were given much coverage in my secondary schooling. I did find learning about other religions fascinating in college for sure.
 
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JackRT

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Ironically I am sitting here watching the movie "Inherit the Wind".

Here are some interesting statistics from some years ago:

Claim:

“Many scientists reject evolution and support creationism.” --- Morris, Henry. 1980. The ICR scientists. Impact 86 (Aug.). *http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=163

Response:

Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll (Robinson 1995, Witham 1997). However, this number includes those working in fields not related to life origins (such as computer scientists, mechanical engineers, etc.). Taking into account only those working in the relevant fields of earth and life sciences, there are about 480,000 scientists, but only about 700 believe in "creation-science" or consider it a valid theory (Robinson 1995). This means that less than 0.15 percent of relevant scientists believe in creationism. And that is just in the United States, which has more creationists than any other industrialized country. In other countries, the number of relevant scientists who accept creationism drops to less than one tenth of 1 percent.

Additionally, many scientific organizations believe the evidence so strongly that they have issued public statements to that effect (NCSEd). The National Academy of Sciences, one of the most prestigious science organizations, devotes a Web site to the topic (NAS 1999). A panel of seventy-two Nobel Laureates, seventeen state academies of science, and seven other scientific organizations created an amicus curiae brief which they submitted to the Supreme Court (Edwards v. Aguillard 1986). This report clarified what makes science different from religion and why creationism is not science.


One needs to examine not how many scientists and professors believe something, but what their conviction is based upon. Most of those who reject evolution do so because of personal religious conviction, not because of evidence. The evidence supports evolution. And the evidence, not personal authority, is what objective conclusions should be based on.

Often, claims that scientists reject evolution or support creationism are exaggerated or fraudulent. Many scientists doubt some aspects of evolution, especially recent hypotheses about it. All good scientists are skeptical about evolution (and everything else) and open to the possibility, however remote, that serious challenges to it may appear. Creationists frequently seize such expressions of healthy skepticism to imply that evolution is highly questionable. They fail to understand that the fact that evolution has withstood many years of such questioning really means it is about as certain as facts can get.
 
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loveofourlord

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Agreed. But I don't know of any non-university level public school that teaches a world religion course. Is there one?

Edit:
Actually, I found one.

There have been the trouble is they often get hijacked to teach why Christianity is right and others are wrong, usually with a more creationist bent, same with bible classes.
 
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stevil

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According to new article by Ann Reid of the NCSE “...the proportion of US secondary-school biology teachers who present creationism as a scientifically valid alternative to evolution fell from 32% in 2007 to 18% in 2019” (E. Plutzer et al. Evo. Edu. Outreach 13, 14; 2020). I am curious what people on this forum think of this recent finding.
Is this a positive or a negative trend?
I find it quite shocking that 18% of school biology teachers would teach creationism in "I presume" biology class.

Creationism isn't science, it's religion and should not be in schools. Teach it in bible class if you must. It is not science and it is poor theology.
I have no idea why some religious folk are so scared of evolution. Even religious schools shouldn't mix religion with science. Have a class for religious studies (teach creationism there) have a class for biology (teach science there).
 
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stevil

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Agreed. But I don't know of any non-university level public school that teaches a world religion course. Is there one?

Edit:
Actually, I found one.
If parents want to indoctrinate their kids they can send them to Sunday school. Don't need this junk in real schools.
 
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KCfromNC

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I find it quite shocking that 18% of school biology teachers would teach creationism in "I presume" biology class.

Wonder if it includes those who teach it to show how a manufactured political controversy contrasts with science?
 
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lasthero

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Even AiG's theme park hasn't attracted the level of visitors they were originally predicting.
That theme park alway seemed like such a bad idea. I've never been, but I've seen enough of the place from clips to know how boring it looks. Did they really think people were going to travel to Kentucky of all places just to see that?

If it wasn't for KFC, most Americans wouldn't even remember Kentucky is a state.
 
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