New Zealand Police Say Multiple Deaths in 2 Mosque Shootings in Christchurch

[Zoii]

I was trying to make the point that people like the NZ PM, don't show the same sympathy to the families who lost loved ones to Islamic terrorists.
She has never spoken out against Islamic terror, that tells me she doesn't care so I have no respect for people like her.

You didnt respond to my post - You said:

It's as though Christian lives don't matter, the world leaders just ignore the plight of Christians in Muslim countries who are being continually slaughtered and persecuted.

This is such absolute BS - There are literally 1000s of media posts citing comments from world leaders in response to mass deaths of people of all ethnicities - where do you get off sprouting this rubbish -This is such deliberate misinformation. Unbelievable!!!
Your posts here have clearly shifted to Islamophobic rhetoric

Muslims make up 2% of Australia's population, but they are 100% responsible for all of the terrorist attacks in the country.

What terrorist attack s in Australia are you talking about?? In the last 15 years lets see - You mean the ONE person shot in the Lindt cafe by a guy with a mental health disorder - or the teen who killed one person outside a police station. That's It. Why not actually quote our Federal Police stats instead of your falsehoods - Our Australian Federal Police cite domestic violence as the biggest threat and in terms of terrorism place right wing extremists at the top of the list - Yes - they are watching closely now - what group did you say you align to?

hey don't accept our way of life and there's been lots of riots and violence on our streets. All this from a tiny minority so I can imagine how it would be if we had 10 or 15%.

What way of life is that exactly - what exactly are you calling Australian. You and me because we are white? - I gotta tell you mate that go back enough generations and you will find we came here in boats from all corners of the world because we wanted a better life.

So who are Australians? They are people from every single country in the world and from over 71 religions.

Riots on the streets you say - gee I must have missed that one - what are you referring to

Lastly you mention Cronulla riots (24 years ago) and blamed it on Moslems - Funny how the police account referred to typical men in their twenties who talk like - well kinda like you - and they jumped on guys whose parents came from lebanon - yes thats right mate - they were Australian NOT refugees who just happened to have a Lebanese Heritage.

So if you want to stay in Australia, You'd best put your xenophobia away because the police are now watching people who post such messages because we now know how such people can take things one step further.


TO ALL NEW ZEALANDERS:
My apologies - we havent got our house in order. Your people (regardless of their choice of who they pray to) didn't deserve one of our right wing xenophobes to come to YOUR country and commit an atrocity. We will try to put things right here.



PS Note the only reason this wacko right winger didn't attack an Australian mosque is that here you cant get your hands on a gun so easily.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I was trying to make the point that people like the NZ PM, don't show the same sympathy to the families who lost loved ones to Islamic terrorists.
She has never spoken out against Islamic terror, that tells me she doesn't care so I have no respect for people like her.

And it comes out sounding jealous the the Muslims are getting all the attention today...

 

[Zoii]

Jacinda Ardern. New Zealand PM. Even before this last event polls showed she had a 95% popularity.

Do you know any leader which has to that extent such admiration and support of the population.

 

[Dan1988]

Hogwash. A man far wiser than you or I once said that "with great power must come great responsibility." It therefore stands to reason that with ultimate power...



Actually, it says that God always gets what He wants, and assumes that just because you're on His side, that He's on yours.

Aquinas made an argument along the same lines in his Summa Contra Gentiles, if memory serves... I remain skeptical.

As a believer, I love everything God does and I would never dare to question anything He chooses to do or allow to happen.

I don't give wise men like Aquinas any oxygen, as they have nothing but their totally depraved views to share with me. Mans best works are as filthy rags in the sight of God and believers feel the same.

The only view that really matters is Gods view, so we all need to learn as much as we can about Him before we listen to any man.

I don't have any doubt that God is on my side, He's not a liar. He said "if God be for you, who can be against you".

Every single person will stand before God to give an account of how they lived the life He gave them, and what they did with His free offer of salvation through His Son.

Billions will be cast into hell to be tormented forever with no hope of escape, only because they rejected His free offer of eternal paradise.

 

[Dan1988]

And it comes out sounding jealous the the Muslims are getting all the attention today...

I'm not jealous of man's false sympathy or attention because it comes from totally depraved, wicked sinners.
The bible says that everyone who is outside of Christ is completely wicked so they can have that kind of attention all to themselves.

 

[Zoii]

I'm not jealous of man's false sympathy or attention because it comes from totally depraved, wicked sinners.
The bible says that everyone who is outside of Christ is completely wicked so they can have that kind of attention all to themselves.

You ring so many alarms bells - I do hope you are being watched.

 

[Dan1988]

You ring so many alarms bells - I do hope you are being watched.

OK I get it, you don't like to hear Biblical truth being proclaimed. I won't post on you thread any more. Best wishes

 

[TLK Valentine]

As a believer, I love everything God does and I would never dare to question anything He chooses to do or allow to happen.

As a non-believer, I choose to ask questions.

I don't give wise men like Aquinas any oxygen, as they have nothing but their totally depraved views to share with me. Mans best works are as filthy rags in the sight of God and believers feel the same.

A pity -- while I don't agree with everything Aquinas said, I find him an interesting and compelling writer who not only dedicated himself to Christ, but who put out more interesting and thought-provoking arguments in support of the Christian faith than most of the people I've read before or since... but of course, it's your right to look down on him.

The only view that really matters is Gods view, so we all need to learn as much as we can about Him before we listen to any man.

I find asking questions to be very conducive to learning.

I don't have any doubt that God is on my side, He's not a liar. He said "if God be for you, who can be against you".

Actually, it was Paul, not God, who said that -- Romans 8:31. You're hardly the first person to mistake Paul for God, nor are you the first to claim "I listen to God, not men," only to have it fall flat.

Every single person will stand before God to give an account of how they lived the life He gave them, and what they did with His free offer of salvation through His Son.

Billions will be cast into hell to be tormented forever with no hope of escape, only because they rejected His free offer of eternal paradise.

It's an interesting story; one I've heard many times before... I remain skeptical.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm not jealous of man's false sympathy or attention because it comes from totally depraved, wicked sinners.

You say you don't want it, but you complain that the Christians aren't getting it. Mixed message?

The bible says that everyone who is outside of Christ is completely wicked so they can have that kind of attention all to themselves.

And you want it back?

 

[Dan1988]

As a non-believer, I choose to ask questions.



A pity -- while I don't agree with everything Aquinas said, I find him an interesting and compelling writer who not only dedicated himself to Christ, but who put out more interesting and thought-provoking arguments in support of the Christian faith than most of the people I've read before or since... but of course, it's your right to look down on him.



I find asking questions to be very conducive to learning.



Actually, it was Paul, not God, who said that -- Romans 8:31. You're hardly the first person to mistake Paul for God, nor are you the first to claim "I listen to God, not men," only to have it fall flat.



It's an interesting story; one I've heard many times before... I remain skeptical.

The danger with asking question of God is that we're not equipped to process the answers. God's ways are infinitely higher than ours, so we're out of our depth and quickly drown.

God has told us everything we need to know about Him, the canon of scripture was completed and closed with the revelation of Jesus Christ given to John.

Gods Word is alive and it's the most powerful thing in the universe, the same message applies to us in the 21st century just as much as it did in the first. His word either saves or condemns, but nobody can remain neutral.

Everyone will be judged by how they responded to His Word. God spoke through His prophets, so Paul was nothing more than an oracle of God. He only wrote what was given to him by God, just as every other author of the 66 books of the Bible did.

It's not possible to find the truth by searching for it, a person can only find it if God gives it to them. Many of the greatest scientists spend their whole lives searching for the truth and they go to their graves never finding it.

I believe a person must first appreciate who they are and who God is, then humble themselves and ask God to reveal the truth to them. He has promised to reveal it to everyone who will humble themselves and repent of their sins.

I didn't mean that we ignore wise men like Aquinas, they can teach us a lot. My point was that we need to find out what God has revealed about Himself first, then we can see if what others say about Him lines up with Holy Scripture.

I'm glad that you're Agnostic and not an outright Atheist, so your only one step away from being liberated from the bondage of sin and darkness.

 

[Dan1988]

You say you don't want it, but you complain that the Christians aren't getting it. Mixed message?



And you want it back?

I wasn't complaining, I was just stating a fact which I observed.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I wasn't complaining, I was just stating a fact which I observed.

You've stated it several times over -- were you worried that we didn't see it the first few times?

 

[Ronald]

You asked me what was scary about your statements



This is just a whisper away from a 'I told you so' statement. I really hope I am interpreting you incorrectly



And this too is a whisper away from a death wish to all non-Christians. Unfortunately many agree with you and take things one step further and speed things up on behalf of God.

Whispering: Peace on earth will not come until Jesus rids the world of evil. Gun control won't. Actually it's going to take not only WWIII, but God's judgment will purify the earth. Now don't liberals crave a utopia? Actually I think it is in all of us. We desire a perfect world, a place of love and peace. Think of your best days in your life when everything was wonderful - perfect in every way - no flaws or negatives, you didn't even here bad news ... a few days stand out, maybe more. Now imagine everyone experiencing that everyday. Yes we all yearn for a better world. But Globalism won't get us there, only God's intervention.

 

[Ronald]

Nothing happens, unless God allows it but that doesn't mean He's responsible in any way.

Romans 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

The Bible tells us that everything that happens will have a good outcome, so God uses things like the Jewish holocaust and every other evil act to bring about His preordained purpose.

That is a great scripture, BUT make sure you understand that God causes all things to work for good FOR THOSE WHO LOVE GOD, FOR THOSE WHO ARE CALLED TO HIS PURPOSE.
NOT EVERYONE LOVES GOD, SO OBVIOUSLY GOOD THINGS AREN'T HAPPENING TO EVERYONE.
If Jesus is the only way to salvation and that is Gods purpose, then all other paths are doomed to failure and bad things.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The danger with asking question of God is that we're not equipped to process the answers. God's ways are infinitely higher than ours, so we're out of our depth and quickly drown.

We'd have to get an answer before we can put that claim to the test.

God has told us everything we need to know about Him, the canon of scripture was completed and closed with the revelation of Jesus Christ given to John.

Clearly that is not the case, if we still have questions.

And not being allowed to ask those questions only raises more questions... which we're not allowed to ask... and around and around we go.

Gods Word is alive and it's the most powerful thing in the universe, the same message applies to us in the 21st century just as much as it did in the first. His word either saves or condemns, but nobody can remain neutral.

And we already know that's not the case, what with the whole Old Covenant/New Covenant business...

Everyone will be judged by how they responded to His Word. God spoke through His prophets, so Paul was nothing more than an oracle of God. He only wrote what was given to him by God, just as every other author of the 66 books of the Bible did.

And you believe this because some man told you this... so there are some men you listen to.

Might I ask whom?

It's not possible to find the truth by searching for it, a person can only find it if God gives it to them. Many of the greatest scientists spend their whole lives searching for the truth and they go to their graves never finding it.

An interesting argument against.... doing anything, actually.

believe a person must first appreciate who they are and who God is, then humble themselves and ask God to reveal the truth to them. He has promised to reveal it to everyone who will humble themselves and repent of their sins.

It's your right to beg for whatever you want from whomever you want... and do attempt to convince others to do likewise.

I'm just letting you know, your argument wasn't convincing.

I didn't mean that we ignore wise men like Aquinas, they can teach us a lot. My point was that we need to find out what God has revealed about Himself first, then we can see if what others say about Him lines up with Holy Scripture.

The problem is that God has not revealed anything about Himself by Himself -- what we have are 66 books written by people you are told (mostly by the people who wrote those 66 books) that God spoke to them...

...furthermore, part and parcel to this belief is that God said everything He had to say that was worth hearing to those people, and has kept His mouth shut for 2,000 years ever since. If I'm going to accept (for the sake of argument), the existence of a God, I find that course of action implausible. A God who can speak through anybody can speak through... well, anybody. Whether or not they were fortunate enough to get written down in the Bible and voted for inclusion by the Council of Nicea should hardly be the deciding factor.

You call Paul an oracle of God -- depending on how you choose to define that word, there could have been any number of such oracles throughout history.

I like that you used the word "oracle" instead of "prophet," so for our purposes, I'm going to define "oracle" as such: Someone who has enough insight (allegedly with divine help) to see beyond the surface of things to reveal timeless truth.

I can list any number of such oracles: Buddha, Sun Tzu, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Mohammed, Thomas More, Niccolo Machiavelli, William Shakespeare, Thomas Paine, Charles Darwin, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Joseph Campbell, John Shelby Spong, Hugh Hefner, Bob Dylan...

All these people have something worth saying, and taught something worth learning. We are wiser and the world is better for it. Should they be discounted as "oracles" simply because they didn't live in just the right time and place to get included in the Bible?

I'm glad that you're Agnostic and not an outright Atheist, so your only one step away from being liberated from the bondage of sin and darkness.

Any Atheist could say the same about you -- you've disbelieved all the other gods... just one to go.

Personally, I don't think it's prudent, in the search for truth, to take any names off the table just yet...

 

[Ronald]

You've heard the liberal media's and their revisionists attempt to change people's minds about history, about current events (with fake news) and brainwash this generation with the term Islamophobia, downplaying Muslim terrorism (when Obama's administration could not even speak the words -a blatant denial); so let the truth be told:
1,400 Years of Christian/Islamic Struggle: An Analysis

 

[Ronald]

We all know of a guy in NZ who decided to speed things along...

No one can speed up God's plan. Actually I thought this was the last generation that would see Armageddon. Adding 70 years (one generation) to 1948, when Israel became a nation, when many thought the clock started to tick ... then recently the Blood Moon Tetrad and the Sign in the Heavens on 9/23/2017 (Rev. 12:1) ... According to Psalm 90:10, a generation is 70 years, or 80 IF you are strong. And this generation is strong, the average lifespan is 78 so maybe a few more year before His Coming?
As Billy Graham said, Judgment Day is coming soon, whether Christ appears or you die first. Jesus said, there is one life, one death and then the judgment. (Sorry to burst the bubble for Hindus or Buddhists who believe in reincarnation, but that is a lie - Jesus said so!)

 

[TLK Valentine]

No one can speed up God's plan.

Which would make the NZ shooter's actions theologically unsound on top of being criminally psychopathic.

Actually I thought this was the last generation that would see Armageddon. Adding 70 years (one generation) to 1948, when Israel became a nation, when many thought the clock started to tick ... then recently the Blood Moon Tetrad and the Sign in the Heavens on 9/23/2017 (Rev. 12:1) ... According to Psalm 90:10, a generation is 70 years, or 80 IF you are strong. And this generation is strong, the average lifespan is 78 so maybe a few more year before His Coming?

Or a few more decades... or a few more centuries... or a few more millennia...

Fact is, Christians have been calling it "the last days" since not too long after the first days... their record in this department has been 0-for-lifetime... but hey, maybe you'll be the one to get it right?

As Billy Graham said, Judgment Day is coming soon, whether Christ appears or you die first. Jesus said, there is one life, one death and then the judgment. (Sorry to burst the bubble for Hindus or Buddhists who believe in reincarnation, but that is a lie - Jesus said so!)

You can follow Billy Graham all you want -- meanwhile, I'm going to go with Nick Fury on this one: "Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on."

Just makes more sense to live that way...

 

[Ronald]

The problem is that God has not revealed anything about Himself by Himself -- what we have are 66 books written by people you are told (mostly by the people who wrote those 66 books) that God spoke to them...

Wrong, Jesus is God in the flesh. God emptied Himself into a fetus who was born and grew to be a man (without sin), to sacrifice Himself for our sins because we could not keep God's Law. He fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us. "All scripture is God breathed." (inspired by God). He communicated His thoughts through chosen PROPHETS filled by His Spirit. They wrote exactly word for word God's thoughts. It was not contrived by man, yet over a period of 1600 years, some 40 authors wrote HIS WORD in harmony. Scripture is proven by history, is good for training and correction. The Bible supports itself, stands alone, is sharp, full of wisdom and knowledge, able to penetrate the soul of man, change him, guide him, leading him to the truth, the way and the life, which is JESUS.

...furthermore, part and parcel to this belief is that God said everything He had to say that was worth hearing to those people, and has kept His mouth shut for 2,000 years ever since. If I'm going to accept (for the sake of argument), the existence of a God, I find that course of action implausible. A God who can speak through anybody can speak through... well, anybody. Whether or not they were fortunate enough to get written down in the Bible and voted for inclusion by the Council of Nicea should hardly be the deciding factor.

The Bible is sufficient, but God did not shut His mouth, He speaks to each believer. We pray and He listens and guides us. He lives in us and directs our paths. The Holy Spirit confirms His presence within us. At times we know this is not us talking, not our own rational thinking after only seconds (when we usually need much thinking to figure things out). No, He speaks through us, (without our analysis or preparation), we speak or act immediately. You are wrong, Jesus is alive in us and works through us. Granted we sometimes get the signals mixed up. But when something is down that results is wonder, beauty, acts of mercy, love that we never thought we were capable of, then we know it was not us, it was God working in us. And so we give Him the praise and thanks, ALWAYS. Anything that happens that is good, comes from God!

I can list any number of such oracles: Buddha, Sun Tzu, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Mohammed, Thomas More, Niccolo Machiavelli, William Shakespeare, Thomas Paine, Charles Darwin, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Joseph Campbell, John Shelby Spong, Hugh Hefner, Bob Dylan...

All these people have something worth saying, and taught something worth learning. We are wiser and the world is better for it. Should they be discounted as "oracles" simply because they didn't live in just the right time and place to get included in the Bible?

I would recognize about ten of those individuals as having positive influences, or examples of creative and productive individuals.
Nevertheless, God works in the lives of unbelievers for His purpose. I can't say that he worked in the life of Darwin, who did not believe in God, who came up with a theory of how life developed, which contrary to Creation, God's work and story in the Bible. But He allowed him a platform, knowing well in advance the irreparable damage to souls lost that would follow and belief such nonsense. He allows many religions of which all contradict Christianity (except for Judaism). Why? It is the knowledge of good and evil that is necessary for humanity to gain wisdom, to differentiate from the two.

 

[Ronald]

Which would make the NZ shooter's actions theologically unsound on top of being criminally psychopathic.

I said that from the beginning. Jesus taught love your enemies, turn the cheek. This was clearly not a spirit filled Christian acting like Jesus. I did say God allowed it to happen as He allowed the earthquake in Haiti that killed 300,000. Everyone dies. He ordains the moment or birth and death.

Or a few more decades... or a few more centuries... or a few more millennia...

As many purport.

"Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on."

Actually the Bible teaches to occupy until He comes. This means hope and pray as if He is returning tomorrow, live and work as if He will come in another generation. It's true, we wouldn't live our lives fully if we thought it was going to be over next year ... maybe I myself have given up on certain aspirations, dreams, thinking ah what's the point, He's coming soon? I try to keep it balanced. I am 63, retired, but would still strongly encourage my nephews or grandchildren to do good in school, follow their dreams, get better jobs, etc.. because He may tarry.