New series by Aron Ra: Why there was no Noachian Flood

[_-iconoclast-_]

I don't see why you used Strong's since it does not really support your claims at all. Strong's merely muddles the Bible, it does not really clarify it.

I disagree. Strongs concordance is a tool to aid translation and you asked for me to explain my position.

I used strongs concordance because i like it and have grown up with it. We want to look at the translation of words to find the core meaning.

Do you believe that Noah's family were the only humans left after the flood?

I believe noahs family and 6th day creation were left.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I disagree. Strongs concordance is a tool to aid translation and you asked for me to explain my position.

I used strongs concordance because i like it and have grown up with it. We want to look at the translation of words to find the core meaning.





I believe noahs family and 6th day creation were left.

It is an aid to translation, but you are hardly translating. Nor does it strongly support your beliefs.

Okay, what is the "6th day creation"?

 

[Aman777]

I am an Anglican. My beliefs are succinctly set forth in the Nicene Creed, which I swear to in public at least weekly. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but in order to be a creationist I would have to believe that it is also the literal, inerrant, perspicuous and self-interpreting product of Plenary Verbal Inspiration. I would have to believe Sola Scriptura, which is anathema to me. In short, I would have to be a conservative fundamentalist Evangelical Protestant, which I would be embarrassed to have to confess to Christ.

Jesus said:
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Speedwell]

Jesus said:
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Right.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

t is an aid to translation, but you are hardly translating. Nor does it strongly support your beliefs.

I disagree friend.

My position is Noahs flood was local and not global.

I have supplied 776, 2724 and 127. These are the words used to denote the area which was flooded. These 3 words dont necessarily mean the whole planet.

I was hoping that would inspect the link i supplied and check the meaning of the 3 index numbers.

I do not believe we have adequately addressed this point yet. How do these 3 index numbers not support my belief?

Okay, what is the "6th day creation"?

There seems to be 2 sets of humans created.

On the 6th day God told one group to go forth and multiply. Adam and Eve were instructed to stay in the garden and had a covenant with God..

Other evidence.
In relation to the mark of cain. Who did cain fear in order for him to receive the mark of cain?

Cheers

 

[Subduction Zone]

I disagree friend.

My position is Noahs flood was local and not global.

I have supplied 776, 2724 and 127. These are the words used to denote the area which was flooded. These 3 words dont necessarily mean the whole planet.

Yes, but not necessarily does not mean that they do support your interpretation. And all you provided were numbers. Nothing else. So you totally failed in supporting your claim. You expect others to do your homework for you and to see your point of view. I know there is supposed to be some "charity" in a debate, but I am not giving up the bank.

I was hoping that would inspect the link i supplied and check the meaning of the 3 index numbers.

That is a bit too much too expect. I have checked one of them since and merely saw that there was some ambiguity. That a phrase is ambiguous is not an excuse to make up your own interpretation. You need something a bit stronger.

And you seemed to have avoided the fact that the Bible clearly says that all life on land passed away. How do you manage to reinterpret that?

I do not believe we have adequately addressed this point yet. How do these 3 index numbers not support my belief?

See above.

There seems to be 2 sets of humans created.

On the 6th day God told one group to go forth and multiply. Adam and Eve were instructed to stay in the garden and had a covenant with God..

Other evidence.
In relation to the mark of cain. Who did cain fear in order for him to receive the mark of cain?

Cheers

I will grant that the Adam and Eve myth is poorly written. And one could interpret that there were other people elsewhere. Of course that leaves all sorts of other problems with that myth.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Yes, but not necessarily does not mean that they do support your interpretation. And all you provided were numbers.

127
Pronounce: ad-aw-maw'

Orig: from 119; soil (from its general redness):--country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land. H119




776
Pronounce: eh'-rets

Orig: from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):--X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, +


2724
Pronounce: khaw-raw-baw'

Orig: feminine of 2720; a desert:--dry (ground, land). H2720



Earth
noun
1
the planet on which we live; the world.
"the diversity of life on earth"
"the moon moves in its orbit around the earth"

2
the substance of the land surface; soil.
"a layer of earth"





I believe that 127, 776 and 2724 do not relate to earth as a planet. God only dealt with middle east in OT. These are the 3 words used in relation to earth used in the Flood story

In does not imply the whole earth. As seen in example 1. It seems to imply something similar to example 2 or land/country.

And you seemed to have avoided the fact that the Bible clearly says that all life on land passed away. How do you manage to reinterpret that?

You need something a bit stronger.

All life lost in that area/land. My point of referencing 127, 776 and 2724 - words used to denote 'earth'.

I will grant that the Adam and Eve myth is poorly written. And one could interpret that there were other people elsewhere. Of course that leaves all sorts of other problems with that myth.

I disagree.

Adam and what was left of his family were still in the garden of eden?

What humans would cain be affraid of outside the garden of eden?

6th creation.

Anyways.

And how do you explain the fact that the Bible claims that all land life died?

This is your question. The crux is 'all land life'. I chose to focus on the part which relates to earth (127, 776 and 2724). My opinion these 3 words do not relate to whole planet.

6th day - go forth and multiply.

Different to Adam and family - covenant.

You have stated previously - simply put - that a global flood leaving 8 ppl would not account for human diversity - re cheetah and bottleneck.

A local flood and 2 sets of human creations would.

Cheers friend

 

[Aman777]

Right.

Right. Today is the last Day, the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

127
Pronounce: ad-aw-maw'

Orig: from 119; soil (from its general redness):--country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land. H119




776
Pronounce: eh'-rets

Orig: from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):--X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, +


2724
Pronounce: khaw-raw-baw'

Orig: feminine of 2720; a desert:--dry (ground, land). H2720



Earth
noun
1
the planet on which we live; the world.
"the diversity of life on earth"
"the moon moves in its orbit around the earth"

2
the substance of the land surface; soil.
"a layer of earth"





I believe that 127, 776 and 2724 do not relate to earth as a planet. God only dealt with middle east in OT. These are the 3 words used in relation to earth used in the Flood story

In does not imply the whole earth. As seen in example 1. It seems to imply something similar to example 2 or land/country.





All life lost in that area/land. My point of referencing 127, 776 and 2724 - words used to denote 'earth'.




I disagree.

Adam and what was left of his family were still in the garden of eden?

What humans would cain be affraid of outside the garden of eden?

6th creation.

Anyways.



This is your question. The crux is 'all land life'. I chose to focus on the part which relates to earth (127, 776 and 2724). My opinion these 3 words do not relate to whole planet.

6th day - go forth and multiply.

Different to Adam and family - covenant.

You have stated previously - simply put - that a global flood leaving 8 ppl would not account for human diversity - re cheetah and bottleneck.

A local flood and 2 sets of human creations would.

Cheers friend

So you believe in a local flood that only wiped out one tribe. That seems to be pretty pointless. I know that you believe the myth of a chosen people, but that simply makes no sense.

Your rather unbiblical flood could have happened. Though no mountains would have been covered. Not even "high hills" would have been covered. I have linked an article on article on the flood that probably inspired the story:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | NCSE

Your local flood story still has some pretty large holes in it. It is rather clear that all life died no land. You have to say "Well it could mean ... " You don't seem to have a very valid reason for those beliefs except for the fact that you don't want the Bible to be wrong. And the collecting of animal life would have been pointless in your version. Since it was just a local flood animals would have survived regardless.

 

[Queller]

See what you want to see friend

I know what im doing

So do all of us.

 

[Queller]

Please read this verse and then tell us what it is saying, in your opinion:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God CREATED the heaven and the earth.

If you don't believe this verse, chances are that you will reject the rest of God's Truth in the Bible. Amen?

No, not "amen". The fact that I don't believe your silly, unsupported interpretation of that verse does not mean I reject the God's Truth.

BTW, the fact that you even responded to this post means you still don't get the sarcasm.

 

[Queller]

In the encephalization chart you are correct....BUT no amount of magical time and zillions of mutations can produce a single Human, since Human intelligence MUST be INHERITED from Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humankind.

Prove it, using science.

 

[Queller]

False. I don't accept "circular reasoning" by mortal beings.

Please demonstrate the "circular reasoning" in either of the articles I linked to. I'll wait (I won't be holding my breath though).

It's possible to prove ANYthing with such thinking since all you have to do is find another Human who agrees with you.

And yet, you can't even find that.

Tell us the process by which magic implants the superior intelligence of God, into Apes.

I can't as I stopped believing in magic when I was a kid. Evolution doesn't use magic, it uses descent with modification.

You cannot since such a concept is ridiculous.

Yes, it is. And since science claims no such thing as magic, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

Were you forced to believe in godless Evolism as a child?

I don't believe evolution is "Godless" anymore than I believe gravity is "Godless". I simply don't believe in a God that is incompetent and makes thousands of mistakes. You might, but I don't.

 

[Queller]

The reason is that Adam was made perfect, and lived with Jesus for Billions of years from BEFORE the big bang, until the present 6th Day.

UnBiblical and unscientific.

Adam/mankind will regain our perfect bodies just before the Rapture. Adam knew NO death until he disobeyed since man was made to live forever as Christians do in Heaven.

*** The Sons of God mated with the prehistoric beings BEFORE the Flood, not after.

Actually, the sons of God on Adam's Earth BEFORE the flood mated with Humans... AND ALSO AFTER THAT on Planet Earth. Here's the verse:

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, (Heb-Adam) and they bare children to them,

"in the earth" means the earth of Adam, the one you claimed was destroyed during the Flood. Are you now claiming that the sons of God rode with Noah and his family to this earth?

Prehistoric people changing into modern Humans, happens only one time per Earth. Noah's grandsons, like Cain on Adam's Earth, had NO other Human women to marry.

The commonly accepted wisdom is that they married their sisters. Do you have Biblical evidence to the contrary?

They married and produced children with the prehistoric women who had been on Planet Earth for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived. They were THEIR kind or the kind which God the Trinity commanded to come forth from Water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:20 They also left their bones all over our planet.

*** Again, the Sons of God mated with the prehistoric beings BEFORE the Flood, not after. You need to at least read the Bible before you start twisting it to support your fantasies.

Why don't you try to explain the "and also after that"? Tell us what it means IF it means something else. Amen?

It is referring to the earth of Adam and Noah before it was destroyed (according to you, anyway).

 

[Queller]

There seems to be 2 sets of humans created.

On the 6th day God told one group to go forth and multiply. Adam and Eve were instructed to stay in the garden and had a covenant with God..

I knew it was coming. Another unique unBiblical belief they use to justify their personal interpretation of Scripture.

At the time of the banishment from the Garden of Eden, there were no other humans. Who else was banished from the Garden if not Adam and Eve?

Other evidence.
In relation to the mark of cain. Who did cain fear in order for him to receive the mark of cain?

Cheers

Other sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

 

[Aman777]

Prove it, using science.

Science knows about how new information is introduced into the Human body. It's by sex. There is no other way unless you make it up since it cannot be demonstrated. The False ToE CLAIMS it all happens within but CANNOT explain, nor can it repeat the event. IOW, it's the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our children by the godless men who dreamed it up.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Science knows about how new information is introduced into the Human body. It's by sex. There is no other way unless you make it up since it cannot be demonstrated. The False ToE CLAIMS it all happens within but CANNOT explain, nor can it repeat the event. IOW, it's the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our children by the godless men who dreamed it up.

Gene duplication:

Gene duplication - Wikipedia

By definition it is "new information".

Point mutations are new information too, but they are generally less successful.

 

[Aman777]

Please demonstrate the "circular reasoning" in either of the articles I linked to. I'll wait (I won't be holding my breath though).

Easy. The articles were written by other worshipers of science, who agree with you. Where's the Beef?

*** And yet, you can't even find that.

I can't as I stopped believing in magic when I was a kid. Evolution doesn't use magic, it uses descent with modification.

Amen. WHY do you call it evolution? Is it because it eliminates God from His Own Creation? Of course it is. You also eliminated His and Their kinds, probably because you have no idea of the difference.

*** Yes, it is. And since science claims no such thing as magic, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

It's because ONLY by magic can you claim to change prehistoric people into Humans (descendants of Adam) unless you introduce it sexually.

*** I don't believe evolution is "Godless" anymore than I believe gravity is "Godless". I simply don't believe in a God that is incompetent and makes thousands of mistakes. You might, but I don't.

The False ToE is Godless because the godless men who dreamed it up TRIED to explain apart from SEX, how new information was placed inside Humans. In making up such an obviously false idea, they ALSO forgot about the Flood since they have REJECTED God's Truth in Genesis. ll Peter 3:3-7

 

[Aman777]

UnBiblical and unscientific.

Scripturally, Adam was made the THIRD Day before the plants, herbs and trees which GREW on the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4-7 Our Cosmos was NOT made until the end of the THIRD Day Gen 2:4 since the FIRST Stars lit up on the 4th Day Gen 1:16 because it was less than a Billion years after the big bang AND each of God's Days/Ages is 4.5 Billion years in man's time.

*** "in the earth" means the earth of Adam, the one you claimed was destroyed during the Flood. Are you now claiming that the sons of God rode with Noah and his family to this earth?

No, since there were already some One Million sons of God (prehistoric people) alive on Planet Earth when the Ark arrived 11k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

*** The commonly accepted wisdom is that they married their sisters. Do you have Biblical evidence to the contrary?

Sure, since the sons of God "moveth" and God told us that He made "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from Water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 which was some 3.8 Billion years ago in man's time. We know that prehistoric people "moveth" because we have found their leg bones all over our Earth for Millions of years.

*** It is referring to the earth of Adam and Noah before it was destroyed (according to you, anyway).

What it shows is that God commanded that every living creature that moveth came forth from the Water on Adam's world AND the present world. ONLY the descendants of Adam have the superior intelligence which is like God's. Gen 3:22

 

[Aman777]

Gene duplication:

Gene duplication - Wikipedia

By definition it is "new information".

Point mutations are new information too, but they are generally less successful.

False, since IF what you preach were true, we would NOT have to educate EVERY child who comes into this world. According to you, all that would have to happen was for mindless genes to mutate, which would eliminate education. Try again?