New dating rules?

[TheyCallMeDavid]

OK so let's just agree to disagree because we know that we won't change anyone's mind. We all have our own walk with the Lord and we will answer to Him.
1 Cor 5 is talking mainly about incest in the church and in verse 5 it talks about delivering such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

the phrase "put away from yourselves the evil person is repeated nine times in Deut. as an abiding principle for God's people, applying directly to the case of incest and indirectly to all leavening evil in our lives. This process is redemptive and not punitive and it is talking about the church judging it's members, and God judging the world.

While we may be able to certainly see sin in others we should not become their judges. Remember the man praying that had status and when he saw a poor man come in he prayed "thank God I am not like that man" and God scolded him for that.

We all have shared our views and I don't want to see anyone quit posting so can we just agree to disagree on this one?

Michelle, Its not a case of agreeing to disagree...not when the BIble makes it extremely clear the consequences of sexual sin if not repented from,in addition to HOW we should react to the professed CHristian who is making a lifestyle out of sexual sin : 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 NIV;KJV - I wrote to you in my letter not to - Bible Gateway . Those who profess to be Christians, should be agreeing on Gods clear instructions in this matter.

Judging anothers lifestyle, actions, dogma, ideologies, written declarations, etc. ... is something the Bible actually CALLS us to do but to do so in accordance to what Gods Word says on any particular matter. The only thing Christians are not to judge on, is anothers eternal destiny .

Christians can agree to disagree on certain matters that are quite grey by nature (ie: whether supernatural gifts are extant for today or not) ...but we are not called to be tolerant on matters that are explicitly expressed in Gods Word as wrong .

I do appreciate your concern to maintain peace , etc...but we as Christians need to hold fast to Gods Word and never compromise it in order to get along with Others thereby never rocking the boat .

 

[dayhiker]

Well, David, I have not seen any evidence that anyone before 1600AD believed these verse are speaking about sexual aberration / sexual deviancy / sexual perversion, as far as I can tell this is a new meaning that is being added to the Bible today.
I have no problem with you believing this, but since you were concern about me thinking per-marital sex was OK, I wanted you to understand that I have given this a lot of thought and research and my beliefs are an effort to not add to what the Bible says. What I posted only touches the surface of what I found out in my studies. After all its God's Word that sets us free. I wasn't finding that freedom when I was trying to live my man's additions to the Word, but once I thought thru what the author's of the Bible were saying and how it would have been read by those who received the Word of God, I did find the freedom Jesus promises.

GM to you. Youll find that the word Porneia is where we get the word Pornography from , and Porneia always carried with it the meaning of sexual abberation / sexual deviancy / sexual perversion.

If we just stick to the BIble and what it reports on Sexual Immorality, as in 1 Cor. chapters 5 and 6 , then we will be in line with Gods loving moral mandates and we can feel at peace that we are living according to how he wants us to. This requires constant rejection of the present Sexually illicit Culture we live -- every Christian today should be Counter Culture.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

OK but usually people do not change their view by someone telling them they are going to hell.
I also think it's one thing to judge someone that you know IRL that you are close to, versus someone online that you don't really have a close relationship to.

I don't believe we are to judge others. If I have someone close to me that is doing something I feel is blatantly sinful, of course I would approach them about their actions, and I have friends that would do the same for me.

But we do not know where each other is on this journey of ours with the Lord, only they know.

You have already pointed out your side of the argument and I agree with everything you have said in regard to it. Dayhiker does not agree and neither does exit. We have debated this issue many times before. Neither of them advocate or try to push their belief or encourage others to do what they do, or think like they think. Dayhiker only explains when asked.
Does he love the Lord? I believe he does. Is how he is living his life right? I don't believe so, but I leave that up to God and the Holy Spirit to change his heart. He has done alot of studying on this, and while I still don't agree with him, I still can be his friend here, and post on this forum with him, with no problems. I would have a problem if he was trying to get us all to think like he does about sexual sin, but that's not him. He has a relationship with Jesus and Jesus can tell him to knock it off but I don't think that's my place. I have previously voiced my opinion just like you. We just decided to agree to disagree. And I believe Jesus died on the cross for all our sins, past present and future.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

OK but usually people do not change their view by someone telling them they are going to hell.
I also think it's one thing to judge someone that you know IRL that you are close to, versus someone online that you don't really have a close relationship to.

I don't believe we are to judge others. If I have someone close to me that is doing something I feel is blatantly sinful, of course I would approach them about their actions, and I have friends that would do the same for me.

But we do not know where each other is on this journey of ours with the Lord, only they know.

You have already pointed out your side of the argument and I agree with everything you have said in regard to it. Dayhiker does not agree and neither does exit. We have debated this issue many times before. Neither of them advocate or try to push their belief or encourage others to do what they do, or think like they think. Dayhiker only explains when asked.
Does he love the Lord? I believe he does. Is how he is living his life right? I don't believe so, but I leave that up to God and the Holy Spirit to change his heart. He has done alot of studying on this, and while I still don't agree with him, I still can be his friend here, and post on this forum with him, with no problems. I would have a problem if he was trying to get us all to think like he does about sexual sin, but that's not him. He has a relationship with Jesus and Jesus can tell him to knock it off but I don't think that's my place. I have previously voiced my opinion just like you. We just decided to agree to disagree. And I believe Jesus died on the cross for all our sins, past present and future.

If ive inferred that someone is going to Hell, it is never on my own Authority...but submitting to what the Word of God says . Whether Someone wants to take Gods Word seriously and obey it is up to the Person. Im just the Messenger of Gods Word and if that truth rubs people up the wrong way when presented in a concerned , factual, encouraging manner... then so be it ; Christians arent called to be Tolerant to the lifestyles of others...only to be loving and concerned . It isnt very loving (for the sake of not rocking the boat) , to not approach Someone who is caught up in sin nor to see what Gods Word has to say on the issue , especially in a distinctive CHristian Forum as this. And yes it is indeed true that we all get to choose how to live our lives .. but in the interest of biblical truth, im not going to remain silent, complacent, apathetic thereby giving the impression that it is acceptable . And if I personally should stray in my lifestyle choices....i hope Others would come to me to remind me what Scripture says on the issue in hopes that i would not veto that truth so i could do as i wish.

CHristians are to far more lenient with the Unsaved who partake in sexual immorality...but we are not to be like that toward professed Christians who still act as if they were unsaved. This too is mandated in Gods Word regardless of how uncomfortable it might be to do so.

I have my opinion on many things, but when in a Christian Forum especially , I appeal to Gods Word as not my opinion ....but the final Court of Arbitration on matters. Today, many dont want to .. even those who profess Christianity. Thats how much our Culture has influenced American Christian Churches.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Well, David, I have not seen any evidence that anyone before 1600AD believed these verse are speaking about sexual aberration / sexual deviancy / sexual perversion, as far as I can tell this is a new meaning that is being added to the Bible today.
I have no problem with you believing this, but since you were concern about me thinking per-marital sex was OK, I wanted you to understand that I have given this a lot of thought and research and my beliefs are an effort to not add to what the Bible says. What I posted only touches the surface of what I found out in my studies. After all its God's Word that sets us free. I wasn't finding that freedom when I was trying to live my man's additions to the Word, but once I thought thru what the author's of the Bible were saying and how it would have been read by those who received the Word of God, I did find the freedom Jesus promises.

When contemplating what the truth is on virtually any lifestyle matter, consider two things for your conclusion:

1. What does Gods Word have to say on it both specifically , and thru general principles. Apply the term 'Sexual Immorality' in the Bible as an umbrella encompassing any and all forms of sexual deviancy which the Christian should stay away from.

1.a. As for freedom (in Christ), it is never to be used to justify engaging in any form of sexual immorality or any sin for that matter . It isnt 'freedom' to engage in things which are defined as wrong in Gods Word, but it is referred to as enslavement in the Bible and something that needs to be overcome thru repentence utilizing the very power of God in your life.

2. Look to Gods infinite nature/character/and person because it is those things that serve to tell us what is right from wrong and permissible from unpermissible. Truth is " Fidelity to the Original " ..and the original is God himself which if we want to be obedient , is the standard .

Let me add this, as a single Christian Male, i know very well how tempting it is to lean toward premarital sex . It is a very very tough thing to deal with because it is our inherent nature given of God to us. But we are not powerless in order to live the Christian Life and we have the power of God to draw on to stay victorious over lifestyle sin . If we want his assistance, it is there for the taking. Regards.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

It's not about not rocking the boat. If I have already stated that I believe somebody is wrong about how they view something whether it is a sin to them or not and they choose to continue because to them it's not a sin there is nothing more I can do, it is in God's hands, and He has very capable hands.

I think there are too many judgemental people in the world christian and non christian. And the christian judgementals are not glorifying God or being loving by just stating what the bible says and how wrong the person is if they continue doing whatever it is, and in this case it's sex outside of marriage.
I agree with you, I think it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage. We've previously discussed this at length with dayhiker and exit, and they both are well studied themselves by self proclamation of the bible.

You also have stated your biblical reasons to them. They know. That's all that can be done. And I do disagree with you somewhat on the tolerance. We are called to love one another and by continuing in this conversation IMO, is being like a clanging cymbol, and it won't do any good. And just because I don't get on someone all the time about their sin, does not mean that I am tolerating it. I have enough of my own sins to worry about. I am no better or worse than anybody else. That's why I need a Savior and even he did not go around condemning everyone. He spoke the truth with Love and their hearts were changed.

You are a messenger yes...but do you really think that telling someone how bad they are sinning when you really don't know them that well, is going to make them change? They will change when and if God lays it on their hearts to change, as we all will with each of our own sins.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

I disagree with Day hiker's restricted reading of the word, porneia. I don't like where our culture is going and I agree with David that we should be counter-cultural. I disagree with David's approach, which seems to be to give people a long list of why they are going to hell.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I disagree with Day hiker's restricted reading of the word, porneia. I don't like where our culture is going and I agree with David that we should be counter-cultural. I disagree with David's approach, which seems to be to give people a long list of why they are going to hell.

and I agree with YOU on all points in this post.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I disagree with Day hiker's restricted reading of the word, porneia. I don't like where our culture is going and I agree with David that we should be counter-cultural. I disagree with David's approach, which seems to be to give people a long list of why they are going to hell.

I feel it is important to let people know the consequences as defined by God in his Word. Especially in a Christian venue as C.F.

 

[dayhiker]

Michelle .. thanks for explaining how you view this decision.

I think David and I have had a civil decision and our digs have been a fun part of the discourse.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

..............

You are a messenger yes...but do you really think that telling someone how bad they are sinning when you really don't know them that well, is going to make them change? They will change when and if God lays it on their hearts to change, as we all will with each of our own sins.

The criteria isnt how well you know Somebody...the criteria is what the Bible instructs us to do when you see/hear/witness a professed Christian going down the wrong path ; and it is imperative that you go to that person and point out the error of their ways (the sin they are involved in) in hopes that they will want to turn from it. The rest is up to them and Gods loving conviction in their Soul . If you dont go to them and point out their error / present the truth based on Gods Word which Christians are to live according to...then that isnt very loving . Im not suggesting we pull out microscopes and try to find all kinds of dirt on ANother...but to pay strict attention to what Gods Word instructs us to regarding a professed Christian who has made sin a lifestyle action .

(James 5: 19 ' My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins)'

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

how well you know somebody might not be a criteria, but admonishment coming from a loving friend that you've known a long time, versus admonishment coming from someone you barely know and don't even know IRL, the one coming from someone that knows you well would have more weight or merit IMO. Someone that doesn't even know me telling me how I am believing wrongly might not have as much weight, that's all I'm saying.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Michelle .. thanks for explaining how you view this decision.

I think David and I have had a civil decision and our digs have been a fun part of the discourse.

I too think we have had a civil dialogue . I dont view what i shared with you as 'a Dig' against you nor was that my intention ...but rather to share with you the truth behind Gods Word on the topic of sex in the life of a Christian.

 

[dayhiker]

Well, David, all you have to do is show that the meaning of the Greek word porneia meant 'Sexual Immorality' when God's word was written.

As best as I can tell this phrase became popular after 1950. I've not found one reference before 1900 in the context of what we are talking about.

By dig, I'm referring to our impling that the other isn't talking Biblically. I have no doubt I can support my position because there are many ways that I can do that from the LXX to the present. While there are only 60 years of support for sexual immorality is what Bible authors were talking about.

When contemplating what the truth is on virtually any lifestyle matter, consider two things for your conclusion:

1. What does Gods Word have to say on it both specifically , and thru general principles. Apply the term 'Sexual Immorality' in the Bible as an umbrella encompassing any and all forms of sexual deviancy which the Christian should stay away from.

1.a. As for freedom (in Christ), it is never to be used to justify engaging in any form of sexual immorality or any sin for that matter . It isnt 'freedom' to engage in things which are defined as wrong in Gods Word, but it is referred to as enslavement in the Bible and something that needs to be overcome thru repentence utilizing the very power of God in your life.

2. Look to Gods infinite nature/character/and person because it is those things that serve to tell us what is right from wrong and permissible from unpermissible. Truth is " Fidelity to the Original " ..and the original is God himself which if we want to be obedient , is the standard .

Let me add this, as a single Christian Male, i know very well how tempting it is to lean toward premarital sex . It is a very very tough thing to deal with because it is our inherent nature given of God to us. But we are not powerless in order to live the Christian Life and we have the power of God to draw on to stay victorious over lifestyle sin . If we want his assistance, it is there for the taking. Regards.

 

[dayhiker]

The truth is hidden .. its behind God's word? lol .. I'm too much of a fundamentalist to go there.

I too think we have had a civil dialogue . I dont view what i shared with you as 'a Dig' against you nor was that my intention ...but rather to share with you the truth behind Gods Word on the topic of sex in the life of a Christian.

 

[HonestTruth]

I have known many rich people and poor people...and it is the attitude toward money that is the greatest factor in happiness. I think I see more happiness in my friends who have little but recognize the important things in life. The richer friends often never have enough money to feel "rich enough"...in spite of the things they do have.

Richer people are a lot happier - don't believe it? Check out ghetto life such as in East New York, Brooklyn where I grew up. Trust me, life is not pretty there.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Well, David, all you have to do is show that the meaning of the Greek word porneia meant 'Sexual Immorality' when God's word was written.

As best as I can tell this phrase became popular after 1950. I've not found one reference before 1900 in the context of what we are talking about.

By dig, I'm referring to our impling that the other isn't talking Biblically. I have no doubt I can support my position because there are many ways that I can do that from the LXX to the present. While there are only 60 years of support for sexual immorality is what Bible authors were talking about.

Aside from what Porneia meant or was intended...is there any doubt on what Sexual Immorality means and the consequences associated with it for people who make a lifestyle of it ?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

The truth is hidden .. its behind God's word? lol .. I'm too much of a fundamentalist to go there.

No, the truth about what Sexual Immorality is, isnt hidden ...its IN Gods Word and all passages regarding it can be found in the Concordance of the Bible. Even the Unregenerate know that Sexual Immorality is discussed at length in the Bible and that it is strictly forbidden. Every Christian should know where the Bible stands on major issues because God has made it plain to discover if you want to.

If you are Someone who is currently engaged in Sexual Immorality / Casual Sex and want to be in it...then that is your freewill choice ; but please dont try to reinterpret Gods clear instructions and consequences on the topic to somehow help justify your participation in it. Instead, if you want to remain in it, then just say so and admit that it has you ensnared during this season in your life ...and that you may decide to exit it in the future but not right now . If you are not engaged in Sexual Immorality currently, then you are in line with Gods Word and stay close to God so you dont stumble . But lets not bandy Gods Word around to make it fit how we desire to live .

 

[dayhiker]

There are two ways to interpret the Bible. There is exegesis and isogesus.
Exogenous is to study what the Bible says. Isogesus is bring an interpretation from outside the Bible. I have lived by and interpreted the Bible from a exogenous point of view all my life. Especially from the time I learned about the methods of interpreting the Bible.

So you have confirmed that the original writings of our Bible didn't refer to sexual immorality. There is a lot of documentation that the Bible is talking about prostitution, even 1 Cor.6 and 10 makes that plain. Its also well documented sexual immorality is a new interpretation only about 60 years old. So its not what the Bible says. Its what man says. I don't see that you have given me any evidence that sexual immorality is a valid translation. I have given you LXX, which is the Bible Jesus, the Apostles and all NT believers used. Then there is the Vulgate translation in the 300, that shows early Christian believed the originals meant prostitution, and fornication meant prositution in 1600 when the KJV was written. The Greek language today means prositution not sexual immorality. That is 2200 years of the Bible meaning one thing. Its only modern English translations that change the meaning of the the Bible. I'll stick with what the Bible says personally. You ask me to confess that I'm ensnared and to change what I read the Bible saying but give me no evidence that what you say is true or what I says is false. How irresponsible that that?

 

[exitstageright]

Not true when it comes to the genitalia. Besides, men are using that part of the body if they urinate...and hormones keep the rest of the parts healthy the same way your pancreas or adrenal gland works without any conscious intervention on your part.

But when a man urinates,he is not having an erection.Do you want empirical evidence? I have empirical evidence. How can you explain the fact that my genitals have gotten smaller since I have been having less sex? Huh?