NEW covenant

[sparow]

Then the question becomes, do the Sabbath requirements have to be learned, or are they already on our hearts. Or is it the ETERNAL laws of God that are written there. "Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and love your neighbor as yourself. That fits better as the two commandments of Jesus are 1 John 3:23.

I expect the original disciples of Jesus who had entered into the NC would have had the law written in them with out them having to learn it but the would have had to teach their children because that is the type found in Deuteronomy. I have never meet anyone who new the Law without being taught. I am not aware that I have meet anyone who has known how to keep it.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is the Great commandments quoted from the OT and it takes the sharp edges off the Law; the whole law hangs on them and inversely they hang on the whole Law. The Law is spiritual and always has been; but the languages, Hebrew and English are not spiritual and one has to convert into spiritual in ones mind.

At the moment everyone has to learn the Law if they are going to know it, at the end of the age those saved will be made perfect.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is not a good translation; love here is not the emotional kind; a better translation is "serve God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and serve your neighbour as your self"; serve includes keeping the commandments.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I expect the original disciples of Jesus who had entered into the NC would have had the law written in them with out them having to learn it but the would have had to teach their children because that is the type found in Deuteronomy. I have never meet anyone who new the Law without being taught. I am not aware that I have meet anyone who has known how to keep it.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is the Great commandments quoted from the OT and it takes the sharp edges off the Law; the whole law hangs on them and inversely they hang on the whole Law. The Law is spiritual and always has been; but the languages, Hebrew and English are not spiritual and one has to convert into spiritual in ones mind.

At the moment everyone has to learn the Law if they are going to know it, at the end of the age those saved will be made perfect.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is not a good translation; love here is not the emotional kind; a better translation is "serve God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and serve your neighbour as your self"; serve includes keeping the commandments.

Scripture tells of Gentiles who didn't KNOW the law, but kept it through their conscience. At this point in Paul's teaching, those Gentiles didn't have Jesus yet either. Its in Romans 2

 

[1stcenturylady]

I expect the original disciples of Jesus who had entered into the NC would have had the law written in them with out them having to learn it but the would have had to teach their children because that is the type found in Deuteronomy. I have never meet anyone who new the Law without being taught. I am not aware that I have meet anyone who has known how to keep it.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is the Great commandments quoted from the OT and it takes the sharp edges off the Law; the whole law hangs on them and inversely they hang on the whole Law. The Law is spiritual and always has been; but the languages, Hebrew and English are not spiritual and one has to convert into spiritual in ones mind.

At the moment everyone has to learn the Law if they are going to know it, at the end of the age those saved will be made perfect.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is not a good translation; love here is not the emotional kind; a better translation is "serve God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and serve your neighbour as your self"; serve includes keeping the commandments.

"Love" in your bottom quote is actually "lay down your life for." Would we let our heads be chopped off, or take the mark of the beast and save it, thereby loosing your soul? Jesus laid down his life for his neighbors, thus saving us.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Scripture tells of Gentiles who didn't KNOW the law, but kept it through their conscience. At this point in Paul's teaching, those Gentiles didn't have Jesus yet either. Its in Romans 2

The conscience can be affected in different ways, depending on a person's background, whether Jew, Gentile; or various subgroups, even.

 

[1213]

Yes, that is half of the eternal law of God, which the Ten C are derived from. The first of the two is "Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit."

And that means:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And so, if you love your neighbor, you live by the commandments and it means you love God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And that means:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And so, if you love your neighbor, you live by the commandments and it means you love God.

Do note that when John uses the word "commandments" he is not talking about the Ten Commandments of His Father, but His Own. You know that don't you?

 

[1213]

Do note that when John uses the word "commandments" he is not talking about the Ten Commandments of His Father, but His Own. You know that don't you?

Please explain why do you think it is some other commandments and what are they?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Please explain why do you think it is some other commandments and what are they?

"Than what they are? Explain. What are "they"

Whose commandments are Christians to keep? The Father's, or the Son's? And why?

 

[sparow]

Do note that when John uses the word "commandments" he is not talking about the Ten Commandments of His Father, but His Own. You know that don't you?

John does not say that the commandments of the Son are different to the commandments of the Father. The Father and son are one not two.

JOHN DID NOT SAY

1. You may have other gods before Me.
2. You may make idols.
3. You shall take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. .
5. disHonor your father and your mother.
6. You may murder.
7. You may commit adultery.
8. You shall steal.
9. You may bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You may covet.

4 Change the Sabbath day to any day, and keep it holy.

 

[1stcenturylady]

John does not say that the commandments of the Son are different to the commandments of the Father. The Father and son are one not two.

JOHN DID NOT SAY

1. You may have other gods before Me.
2. You may make idols.
3. You shall take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. .
5. disHonor your father and your mother.
6. You may murder.
7. You may commit adultery.
8. You shall steal.
9. You may bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You may covet.

4 Change the Sabbath day to any day, and keep it holy.

John didn't have to.

Turn it around.

5 Would you like to have a child that doesn't honor you?
6 Would you like to be murdered?
7 Would you like to be married to an unfaithful spouse?
8 Would you like to lose your money to a thief?
9 Would you like to be lied and gossiped about?
10 Would you like someone to hate you for what you own?

No? "Then do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That is love your neighbor as yourself.

1-4 Would you like to be God, come to earth, die for sinners, and no one is grateful?
---
John is right. Love covers 5-10
Belief in Jesus, obeying His commands to us, and loving Him with all our strength, mind and spirit covers 1-4.

 

[1213]

...Whose commandments are Christians to keep? The Father's, or the Son's?

I think they are the same. And if person loves God, he wants to keep them.


For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[2tim_215]

This is a saying that I like and I believe explains it in a nutshell:
"The Old Covenant (Testament) is the New Covenant (Testament) Concealed and the New Testament is the Old Covenant (Testament) Revealed"

 

[1stcenturylady]

I think they are the same. And if person loves God, he wants to keep them.


For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

You are quoting John again. So wouldn't you say it is John's view of the commandments, not yours?

 

[1213]

You are quoting John again. So wouldn't you say it is John's view of the commandments, not yours?

John wrote it, but I agree with him, so if it is his view, it is also my view. But I am not the inventor.

 

[1stcenturylady]

John wrote it, but I agree with him, so if it is his view, it is also my view. But I am not the inventor.

John's view is 1 John 3:23.

 

[bugkiller]

I expect the original disciples of Jesus who had entered into the NC would have had the law written in them with out them having to learn it but the would have had to teach their children because that is the type found in Deuteronomy. I have never meet anyone who new the Law without being taught. I am not aware that I have meet anyone who has known how to keep it.

Why would this be when we are delivered from the law (Rom 7:6)? When you say "the law" it is understood the law given to Israel. Even Jeremiah says it is not this law written on the heart. See Jer 31:32.

"Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit and love your neighbour as your self", is the Great commandments quoted from the OT and it takes the sharp edges off the Law; the whole law hangs on them and inversely they hang on the whole Law. The Law is spiritual and always has been; but the languages, Hebrew and English are not spiritual and one has to convert into spiritual in ones mind.

Yes it is. The context does not indicate by quoting that we are obligated to the law. Jesus is asked about the law. Jesus is not teaching to keep the law in this case. To do so would contradict at least 5 chapters of John's Gospel.

At the moment everyone has to learn the Law if they are going to know it, at the end of the age those saved will be made perfect.

Why is this when we are delivered from the law?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Scripture tells of Gentiles who didn't KNOW the law, but kept it through their conscience. At this point in Paul's teaching, those Gentiles didn't have Jesus yet either. Its in Romans 2

What is your point? Christians do not have "the law" either. We have the New Covenant.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"Love" in your bottom quote is actually "lay down your life for." Would we let our heads be chopped off, or take the mark of the beast and save it, thereby loosing your soul? Jesus laid down his life for his neighbors, thus saving us.

For Jesus, yes. For religion, no.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And that means:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And so, if you love your neighbor, you live by the commandments and it means you love God.

But what commandments are we to keep? The 10 Cs? or the commandments of Jesus? Jesus did not bring nor teach the law according to Jn 1:17.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do note that when John uses the word "commandments" he is not talking about the Ten Commandments of His Father, but His Own. You know that don't you?

Outstanding statement.

bugkiller