NEW covenant

[bugkiller]

Please explain why do you think it is some other commandments and what are they?

Read the Gospel of John. Read only what is there.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

John does not say that the commandments of the Son are different to the commandments of the Father. The Father and son are one not two.

JOHN DID NOT SAY

1. You may have other gods before Me.
2. You may make idols.
3. You shall take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. .
5. disHonor your father and your mother.
6. You may murder.
7. You may commit adultery.
8. You shall steal.
9. You may bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You may covet.

4 Change the Sabbath day to any day, and keep it holy.

Please explain this verse -

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I think they are the same. And if person loves God, he wants to keep them.


For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

Not what you are calling the commandments for Christians.

bugkiller

 

[Der Alte]

But what commandments are we to keep? The 10 Cs? or the commandments of Jesus? Jesus did not bring nor teach the law according to Jn 1:17.
bugkiller

Nine of the 10 commandments are quoted in the NT as binding on Christians. The only one omitted is #4 which was given exclusively to the children of Israel as a perpetual/everlasting covenant. Exodus 31:16 and Leviticus 24:8

 

[bugkiller]

John wrote it, but I agree with him, so if it is his view, it is also my view. But I am not the inventor.

There is plenty room for doubt here.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

John's view is 1 John 3:23.

And so is Jn 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Nine of the 10 commandments are quoted in the NT as binding on Christians. The only one omitted is #4 which was given exclusively to the children of Israel as a perpetual/everlasting covenant. Exodus 31:16 and Leviticus 24:8

That does not matter.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do you believe in what is called "replacement theology"?

No

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The law is basically “love your neighbor as yourself”. That is same in OT and in NT. But in NT, it will be in persons heart.

You did not deal with the "Not according to..." Instead you over look it to promote a false teaching.

bugkiller

 

[sparow]

Why would this be when we are delivered from the law (Rom 7:6)? When you say "the law" it is understood the law given to Israel. Even Jeremiah says it is not this law written on the heart. See Jer 31:32.Yes it is. The context does not indicate by quoting that we are obligated to the law. Jesus is asked about the law. Jesus is not teaching to keep the law in this case. To do so would contradict at least 5 chapters of John's Gospel.Why is this when we are delivered from the law?

bugkiller

The reason we have hundreds and thousands of Christian sects is at the time of the schism and ever since they interpret scripture differently or uniquely. So do not expect everyone to agree with you.

Paul's epistles are not universal; they are directed to specific people about a specific problem at a specific time in a specific place, and the epistle is part of an ongoing discussion, two thousand years ago.

One of Paul's techniques was when speaking to a Roman he spoke as a Roman, when speaking to a gentile he spoke as a gentile, when speaking to devils he spoke as a devil; in Romans I believe he was speaking to Jews as a Jew; the Law Paul is speaking of is not what is commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law but rather the corrupted molested Law of the Pharisees, also called doctrines of men in place of what God has given.

The Pharisees did not have their kingdom taken from them and given away, because they were keeping the Mosaic Law; they lost the kingdom and the salvation because they were not keeping the Mosaic Law.

 

[sparow]

Please explain this verse -

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

bugkiller

This is a verse taken from the chapter where Jesus explains the union between Himself and His church, under the parable of a vine; which is strange that He would use a parable because His only audience was His disciples.

I get the impression you think in verse ten Jesus declares His commandments as being different to His Fathers, but Jesus is asking His disciples to have Faith in Him as He had Faith in His Father.

 

[sparow]

Nine of the 10 commandments are quoted in the NT as binding on Christians. The only one omitted is #4 which was given exclusively to the children of Israel as a perpetual/everlasting covenant. Exodus 31:16 and Leviticus 24:8

I believe you misuse the word exclusively. The Law including the Sabbath and circumcision is given to anyone living with or working for or slaves of Israel. It is true that the covenant is made with Israel but others an be folded in; Jesus is King of Israel not King of Pagans.

 

[Der Alte]

I believe you misuse the word exclusively. The Law including the Sabbath and circumcision is given to anyone living with or working for or slaves of Israel. It is true that the covenant is made with Israel but others an be folded in; Jesus is King of Israel not King of Pagans.

I quoted scripture you gave me your unsupported opinion. Again 9 of the 10 commandments are quoted as required of Christians in the NT, the only one that is not is #4 the Sabbath.

 

[sparow]

I quoted scripture you gave me your unsupported opinion. Again 9 of the 10 commandments are quoted as required of Christians in the NT, the only one that is not is #4 the Sabbath.

I looked up the two verses you quoted and found the did not support your opinion. Quoting verses usually assumes they can stand alone out of the context in which they are given.

It is my opinion that almost every word spoken by Jesus to the Jews was to correct them regarding the old covenant; the rich young man for example:

Matthew 19:17-18 (NKJV)
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'

First Jesus tells him to keep all the commandments, none excluded; later Jesus mentions six; you assume six are required for Christians to keep; I assume the six are where the rich young man was failing, and that he had the first four right.

 

[Der Alte]

I looked up the two verses you quoted and found the did not support your opinion. Quoting verses usually assumes they can stand alone out of the context in which they are given.
It is my opinion that almost every word spoken by Jesus to the Jews was to correct them regarding the old covenant; the rich young man for example:
Matthew 19:17-18 (NKJV)
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'
First Jesus tells him to keep all the commandments, none excluded; later Jesus mentions six; you assume six are required for Christians to keep; I assume the six are where the rich young man was failing, and that he had the first four right.

I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond. Evidently you did not read my post. I did not say only six commandments.

Nine of the 10 commandments are quoted in the NT as binding on Christians. The only one omitted is #4 which was given exclusively to the children of Israel as a perpetual/everlasting covenant. Exodus 31:16 and Leviticus 24:8

 

[sparow]

I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond. Evidently you did not read my post. I did not say only six commandments.

I do not know why you are getting upset. I am having a conversation; I read your post and disagreed with it. Maybe you didn't read my response.

DA said:
Nine of the 10 commandments are quoted in the NT as binding on Christians. The only one omitted is #4 which was given exclusively to the children of Israel as a perpetual/everlasting covenant. Exodus 31:16 and Leviticus 24:8

The point I meant to make is that it was always intended that the Law (interchangeable with Covenant) would go to the Gentiles and this is mentioned twice in the old testament. The fourth commandment is not separateable from the covenant. Jesus has said the Law may not be changed; omitting the fourth commandment or abrogating the Law is to change the Law. You must know there are Baptists who keep the Sabbath. The covenants are made with Israel, Gentiles are folded in.

 

[bugkiller]

The reason we have hundreds and thousands of Christian sects is at the time of the schism and ever since they interpret scripture differently or uniquely. So do not expect everyone to agree with you.

Then is it you want others to agree with you? The problem I see is people want to both change word meanings and applications to promote wrong concepts. Your above comment does not address anything in my post.

Paul's epistles are not universal; they are directed to specific people about a specific problem at a specific time in a specific place, and the epistle is part of an ongoing discussion, two thousand years ago.

Paul addresses both the Jew and the Gentile in Romans and Galatians. The people Paul addresses both claim to be Christians. Paul is really addressing Christians. The word Paul uses in Rom 7:6 us "we." If Gentiles did not have the law as indicated in chapter 2 they can not be delivered from it. Paul speaking as a Christian and Jew says both Christians and Jews are delivered from the law some here seek to subject gentiles under. Therefore neither the Jewish nor gentile Christian is subject to the law. In this aspect Paul's letter applies to all thus universal. Both Romans and Galatians argue against the Christian being required to keep the law. This in no way contradicts anything found in the Gospels.

One of Paul's techniques was when speaking to a Roman he spoke as a Roman, when speaking to a gentile he spoke as a gentile, when speaking to devils he spoke as a devil; in Romans I believe he was speaking to Jews as a Jew; the Law Paul is speaking of is not what is commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law but rather the corrupted molested Law of the Pharisees, also called doctrines of men in place of what God has given.

This argument is flawed. Romans in general are gentiles as you represent. You do not represent Romans as Jews as you argued above to get compliance with your idea.

Can you please quote Paul as speaking as a devil? I need to see what you are talking about by saying such.

Paul is clearly speaking of the law and specifically the 10 Cs by referencing the 10th commandment about coveting in 7:7.

If I post what you are trying to get at without mentioning it, I would only get into trouble. Essentially my position is clearly supported by Jer 31; LK 16, 20, 24; Jn 1, 3, 5, 10, 14, 15; Rom 7-12; Gal 3-5.

The Pharisees did not have their kingdom taken from them and given away, because they were keeping the Mosaic Law; they lost the kingdom and the salvation because they were not keeping the Mosaic Law.

Do you have some scriptural support for this?

bugkiller

 

[Der Alte]

I do not know why you are getting upset. I am having a conversation; I read your post and disagreed with it. Maybe you didn't read my response.

I'm not upset. I said 9 commandments you asked me if I thought we only had to obey six, indicating you did not read my post.

The point I meant to make is that it was always intended that the Law (interchangeable with Covenant) would go to the Gentiles and this is mentioned twice in the old testament.

Where is it mentioned?

The fourth commandment is not separateable from the covenant. Jesus has said the Law may not be changed; omitting the fourth commandment or abrogating the Law is to change the Law. You must know there are Baptists who keep the Sabbath. The covenants are made with Israel, Gentiles are folded in.

What some people choose to do does not make it mandatory for everyone. Four, only, requirements repeated three times.

Acts 15:7-10
(7) After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
(8) God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
(9) He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
(10) Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
Acts 15:19-20
(19) "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
(20) Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Acts 15:28-29
(28) It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
(29) You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts 21:24-25
(24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
(25) As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."
​

 

[bugkiller]

This is a verse taken from the chapter where Jesus explains the union between Himself and His church, under the parable of a vine; which is strange that He would use a parable because His only audience was His disciples.

I get the impression you think in verse ten Jesus declares His commandments as being different to His Fathers, but Jesus is asking His disciples to have Faith in Him as He had Faith in His Father.

The verse is a comparative sentence of opposing commandments. The opposing commandments are "My commandments" and "My Father's commandments." Which commandments did Jesus confess He kept? Did Jesus say to keep the same commandments He kept? Both old and new testaments state clearly no one keeps the commandments. This is one of the reasons we need the Redeemer, Jesus. Rom 11:32 gives a very good reason for the law. The law was not given to be obeyed, it was given so God could show mercy. Forgiveness voids the law. When I say that I mean the enforcement of the law making it worthless. The righteousness of the law will not secure eternal life (salvation).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I believe you misuse the word exclusively. The Law including the Sabbath and circumcision is given to anyone living with or working for or slaves of Israel. It is true that the covenant is made with Israel but others an be folded in; Jesus is King of Israel not King of Pagans.

It seems to me you forget the Gospel of John and the historical testimony of Acts.

bugkiller