Neutrality

[Hethatreadethit]

This already shows signs of a closed mind, and a closed heart.

I have a deep abiding love for Jesus, yet I KNOW I have free will.

OK, Good But concerning closed mind, the term "I KNOW" sounds closed to me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm not to knowledgeable on this point but to build immunity to disease, you must first have it for the body to identify it and destroy it. God gave the commandments and sin took off and the disease spread. But He had the cure and Christ brought the solution forth in His death and resurrection. The way of life was made manifest in the faith that Christ established.

We have the disease because we are born into an infected world. No one escapes the effects of sin. As proof ... everyone dies. Death is the result of sin being in the world.

The cure involves cooperating with God as we go through our life, being cured by being made more like Christ, transformed by the grace of God as we cooperate with Him, which involves how we live our lives. Either we cooperate with Him, and are changed, or we go our own way, and are not.

Salvation is not just a moment in time conversion, and then going your own way to ignore God for the rest of your life. (I'm not saying that you are saying this.) Such a "faith" would not be living, saving faith, but a dead faith that James talked about - faith without works is dead.

Our "medicine" is taken throughout our lives, continually. In this way, we continue to choose. But there is no middle, neutral position. Either we take our medicine, walk with Christ, growing closer to God, or we do not, and grow sicker in sin, further from God, day by day. And for many/most people, it's at least some mixture of both. But the Christian strives to move closer to God and cooperate with His grace, even if we fail in certain things or times. We simply repent, and get up and keep going.

 

[Kie.]

Your wrong, I choose to be non-committal. I have free will and I am not going to be either good or bad because I have decided that that is what i'm going to be from here on out!

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Being good or bad is not the major issue. It's about Jesus righteousness imputed to us by God. Bible says that the Holy Spirit is a seal given to those persons until we enter heaven. If you have the Holy Spirit you are righteous. If you don't you aren't. Why because NOT ONE PERSON EVER BORN is able NO MATTER WHAT THEYVE DONE to stand before God and be acknowledged as Righteous. Because God said so. Only by faith in Jesus will God coninsider you righteous. HOWEVER the life we live must be in acknowledging our inability, fallibility and His grace to us. We therefore do as much as we will knowing that we are not righteous because of that but because of His grace.

 

[Francisco Grasso]

By the way, having an evil thought cross your mind might not be a sin. It is often a temptation. But it can be borne out of our own hearts, which is an indication that we need to become more like Christ.

But you are very correct that it is a battle, and one that we fight until we die, if we wish to become like Christ even in our thoughts (and that is what we should desire). It is a question that many Holy people, especially Christian monastics and hermits, have concerned themselves with over the centuries, and there are actually many tools we can use in fighting that battle.

But there is no middle ground. We don't get to abandon the race. We must run it to the end.

.....................................


Here is what my world travels and investigations into private priceless documents in the hands of private collectors, who have kindly allowed me to study and analyze, have led in reference to: WHO KILLED Hypathia.

As most scholars know, Hypathia was born in Egypt, spoke many languages and lived in Italy where she was a gifted mathematician taught by her father Theon also a Mathematician. She is credited for her work on Conics and finite mathematics among just a few of her vast knowledge.

One day after giving a lecture, Hypathia, got on her cart, driven by two horses and was on her way home. On the road that she was traveling (alone), she was ambushed by a group of Parabolani Monks, they beat and dragged her inside a cave, where each one beat and raped her. After they were all finished, they took turns again and raped her again. Then, she was severely beaten, her head cut off, subsequently her arms and legs were also cut off and those remains were scattered all over the area for the vultures to eat.

And this is exactly what happened.
FG
8/4/2017

 

[Francisco Grasso]

Here is what my world travels and investigations into private priceless documents in the hands of private collectors, who have kindly allowed me to study and analyze, have led in reference to: WHO KILLED Hypathia.

As most scholars know, Hypathia was born in Egypt, spoke many languages and lived in Italy where she was a gifted mathematician taught by her father Theon also a Mathematician. She is credited for her work on Conics and finite mathematics among just a few of her vast knowledge.

One day after giving a lecture, Hypathia, got on her cart, driven by two horses and was on her way home. On the road that she was traveling (alone), she was ambushed by a group of Parabolani Monks, they beat and dragged her inside a cave, where each one beat and raped her. After they were all finished, they took turns again and raped her again. Then, she was severely beaten, her head cut off, subsequently her arms and legs were also cut off and those remains were scattered all over the area for the vultures to eat.

And this is exactly what happened.
FG
8/4/2017

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hello, and welcome to CF, since you are new.

.....................................


Here is what my world travels and investigations into private priceless documents in the hands of private collectors, who have kindly allowed me to study and analyze, have led in reference to: WHO KILLED Hypathia.

As most scholars know, Hypathia was born in Egypt, spoke many languages and lived in Italy where she was a gifted mathematician taught by her father Theon also a Mathematician. She is credited for her work on Conics and finite mathematics among just a few of her vast knowledge.

One day after giving a lecture, Hypathia, got on her cart, driven by two horses and was on her way home. On the road that she was traveling (alone), she was ambushed by a group of Parabolani Monks, they beat and dragged her inside a cave, where each one beat and raped her. After they were all finished, they took turns again and raped her again. Then, she was severely beaten, her head cut off, subsequently her arms and legs were also cut off and those remains were scattered all over the area for the vultures to eat.

And this is exactly what happened.
FG
8/4/2017

What a horrible story. I'm not sure how it relates to my post, which you quoted?

Still I must say, there are other historical accounts of what happened, and they don't seem to agree precisely with this one.

But for the purposes of staying on topic, we should focus on what point is being made.

Again, welcome to CF.

 

[disciple1]

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So, true love is keeping the commandments

But no one keeps the commandments.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

No one ever obeyed the law except Jesus.


Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

The only thing we can do is love, and try to help people, if we try to obey the law Christ didn't die for us.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

We have the disease because we are born into an infected world. No one escapes the effects of sin. As proof ... everyone dies. Death is the result of sin being in the world.

The cure involves cooperating with God as we go through our life, being cured by being made more like Christ, transformed by the grace of God as we cooperate with Him, which involves how we live our lives. Either we cooperate with Him, and are changed, or we go our own way, and are not.

Salvation is not just a moment in time conversion, and then going your own way to ignore God for the rest of your life. (I'm not saying that you are saying this.) Such a "faith" would not be living, saving faith, but a dead faith that James talked about - faith without works is dead.

Our "medicine" is taken throughout our lives, continually. In this way, we continue to choose. But there is no middle, neutral position. Either we take our medicine, walk with Christ, growing closer to God, or we do not, and grow sicker in sin, further from God, day by day. And for many/most people, it's at least some mixture of both. But the Christian strives to move closer to God and cooperate with His grace, even if we fail in certain things or times. We simply repent, and get up and keep going.

I believe there is a deceitful middle, that on one hand tells people to do good and on the other hand tells people that they can't do what they should. Perhaps Paul in His writings led people to believe they couldn't perform good and were slaves to their flesh. I know of no disciples who said: You are in the driver seat of life, so do what your free-will leads you to do. So did Christ just die to provide us with a free will to avoid His sufferings for which comes to those who do his will? Take a long hard look on this question, and you will still not likely find the answer. I'm not a traditionalist. I have lots of questions, and some answers.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

But no one keeps the commandments.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

No one ever obeyed the law except Jesus.


Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

The only thing we can do is love, and try to help people, if we try to obey the law Christ didn't die for us.

Your wisdom sounds like the advice of those empowered by lawlessness. Do you like any of God's commandments?

 

[~Anastasia~]

I believe there is a deceitful middle, that on one hand tells people to do good and on the other hand tells people that they can't do what they should. Perhaps Paul in His writings led people to believe they couldn't perform good and were slaves to their flesh. I know of no disciples who said: You are in the driver seat of life, so do what your free-will leads you to do. So did Christ just die to provide us with a free will to avoid His sufferings for which comes to those who do his will? Take a long hard look on this question, and you will still not likely find the answer. I'm not a traditionalist. I have lots of questions, and some answers.

In a sense we have free will. In a sense, we are born slaves to sin. Depending on how you are asking ...


What I find to be the answer is this - Where the Spirit of Christ is, there is freedom. We do become more free in Christ, more ABLE to choose (because it becomes easier/possible to resist sin/temptation, with the help of God's grace).

But we are not free to simply do whatever pleases us. If we indulge the flesh, we make ourselves slaves again, to our desires, which seek to master us.

If we choose to follow Christ, the grace of God is more and more active in us, and we can more easily resist sin, and become more and more truly free.

Sometimes it seems a contradiction, but this is how it works.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Being good or bad is not the major issue. It's about Jesus righteousness imputed to us by God. Bible says that the Holy Spirit is a seal given to those persons until we enter heaven. If you have the Holy Spirit you are righteous. If you don't you aren't. Why because NOT ONE PERSON EVER BORN is able NO MATTER WHAT THEYVE DONE to stand before God and be acknowledged as Righteous. Because God said so. Only by faith in Jesus will God coninsider you righteous. HOWEVER the life we live must be in acknowledging our inability, fallibility and His grace to us. We therefore do as much as we will knowing that we are not righteous because of that but because of His grace.

His WILL is that of His Fathers:

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

His grace was given so that men would do the will of God:

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

The children of the Father follow the Father, It is a teaching of God.

The grace of God was given to clothe His People in the keeping of His commandments:

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The will of God was not the will of man, but God has purposed in Christ to make known the will of God.

Good night.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

In a sense we have free will. In a sense, we are born slaves to sin. Depending on how you are asking ...


What I find to be the answer is this - Where the Spirit of Christ is, there is freedom. We do become more free in Christ, more ABLE to choose (because it becomes easier/possible to resist sin/temptation, with the help of God's grace).

But we are not free to simply do whatever pleases us. If we indulge the flesh, we make ourselves slaves again, to our desires, which seek to master us.

If we choose to follow Christ, the grace of God is more and more active in us, and we can more easily resist sin, and become more and more truly free.

Sometimes it seems a contradiction, but this is how it works.

I suspect one could write a book on things to do that are neutral, that is neither offensive to God or man:

List:
1.Walking the dog
2.Listening to a concert
3.Taking a walk
4.Watching butterflies
5.Shopping for Groceries
6.Eating and drinking
7.Playing an instrument
8.Going to the dentist or doctor
9.Playing Horseshoes, and tictactoe
10. Cleaning the dishes,and the house
11.Cooking or baking a cake
12. Flying a kite
13.Last but not Least: Mindlessness and having no feelings one way or the other
oh and 14.studying physics

 

[disciple1]

Your wisdom sounds like the advice of those empowered by lawlessness. Do you like any of God's commandments?

Your wisdom sounds like the advice of those empowered by lawlessness. Do you like any of God's commandments?

Like I said you don't obey the law, no one does.
Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Like I said you don't obey the law, no one does.
Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Faith alone is meaningless.

 

[disciple1]

Faith alone is meaningless.

Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Faith alone is meaningless.

Your right about faith alone being meaning less, it has to express itself in love to be worth anything.

But no one obeys the law, if you try to you sin more.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Your right about faith alone being meaning less, it has to express itself in love to be worth anything.

But no one obeys the law, if you try to you sin more.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

With no laws, then there should be no reason to mess up and one should be able to rejoice with a wide range of freedom, with a great deal of leeway. There should be no need to overcome from anything, because one has no base to be behold'n too. Perfect, no commitment to any laws, no sin, nothing to stumble over. Neutrality, righteousness, and salvation with ease. Were not talking about a narrow trail to follow, but rather a super highway. Freewheelin down the autobahn of life. Love is then anything your mind justifies, and works are anything you want to do and justify. Religion made to order.

 

[Monk Brendan]

OK, Good But concerning closed mind, the term "I KNOW" sounds closed to me.

I am always willing to learn. However, it has to be information that I find important to me. For instance, I do not need to know the mean low temperature, in Celsius, in Tierra del Fuego. (It happens to be minus four degrees, C. I had occasion to look it up the other day for a story I'm writing.)

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I am always willing to learn. However, it has to be information that I find important to me. For instance, I do not need to know the mean low temperature, in Celsius, in Tierra del Fuego. (It happens to be minus four degrees, C. I had occasion to look it up the other day for a story I'm writing.)

For a place that calls itself the Land of Fire, it does't sound very warm.

 

[Monk Brendan]

For a place that calls itself the Land of Fire, it does't sound very warm.

It is called the land of fire because of the volcanoes there.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

It is called the land of fire because of the volcanoes there.

I guess some volcanoes loose their zeal and become extinct. Some just become dormant. Do you think that Christ has become dormant in this world but eventually the Earth will witness a supervolcano?

Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zep 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
Zep 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

With a supervolcano, there will be darkness, and quaking, and much burning, and the land would be made a desolation.








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