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need some help regarding old testiment law

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Originally Posted by visionary If you have a vehicle and the manual says.. only use a certain type of fuel.. don't you thin that the creator of the vehicle would know what his design can handle?
What scriptures does that apply too?
that would imply unleaded gas being "kosher/clean" and leaded gas being "non-kosher/unclean" me thinks. Environmentally speaking of course :D
 
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visionary

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So, you view the old Covenant as something we must perform in order to experience Salvation?
Salvation only comes into play when the law had been broken. It is the offer of mercy, grace, and forgiveness, with a expensive price tag for our Lord, to redeem us from the penalty of the law. There is no performance of the old or new covenant that would help anyone experience salvation. Salvation can only be experience in either case if you believe by faith in the offer. God has offered through great sacrifice, God will and did offer Himself, the Lamb of God, and if the believer saw that like Abraham did, they experience the burden of sin fall off their shoulders.
 
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Zeena

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Salvation only comes into play when the law had been broken. It is the offer of mercy, grace, and forgiveness, with a expensive price tag for our Lord, to redeem us from the penalty of the law.
We do not have to go back and beg for forgiveness already bestowed for the efficiency of Christ's Sacrifice is once for all!

Hebrews 9:25
nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place year by year with blood not his own;

There is no performance of the old or new covenant that would help anyone experience salvation. Salvation can only be experience in either case if you believe by faith in the offer.
Romans 4:16
For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

God has offered through great sacrifice, God will and did offer Himself,
WILL?!?!

Did you say WILL offer Himself, as in AGAIN?!? :confused:

Hebrews 9:12
nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

the Lamb of God, and if the believer saw that like Abraham did, they experience the burden of sin fall off their shoulders.
He HAS saved us (regeneration) – Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
He IS saving us (sanctification) – 2 Cor. 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
He WILL save us (glorification) – 1 Peter 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

He HAS cleansed us – 1 Cor. 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
He IS cleansing us – 1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
He WILL utterly cleanse us – Eph. 5: 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.


He HAS kept us – Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
He IS keeping us – 1 Peter 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
He WILL keep us – John 6:39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
http://responsivereiding.com/2007/04/10/i-am-saved-am-being-saved-and-will-be-saved-huh/
 
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visionary

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Regarding the "will".. that was in the scripture... when Abraham said "will". Not to be confused with the idea of "again" as you suggested.

Regarding the point about "going back" and begging for forgiveness... I never mentioned going back, but was dealing with unrepented sin... all sin needs to be repented of... or God will be dealing with...

Jeremiah 5:3
O LORD, do not your eyes look for truth? You struck them, but they felt no pain; you crushed them, but they refused correction. They made their faces harder than stone and refused to repent.

Jeremiah 8:6
I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle.

Ezekiel 18:30
"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

It is good to repent of sin.. but even more important to..

Matthew 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

When you said...

We do not have to go back and beg for forgiveness already bestowed for the efficiency of Christ's Sacrifice is once for all!
my first thought...

Romans 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

But then reading further and seeing that you were jumping from your part to his part and equated that since it was a one time deal for him it is a one time deal for you.. I understood what you were saying..

Every repentence is a humble step closer to understanding and acknowledging God and turning from sin as the light of the truth shines upon it.. so that you may walk in the path of righteousness... and stumble not... but if you do stumble.. repent...

Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
 
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Works are no justification... Just one less thing to be judged on...The Lord may wink at those who know not, but will call on all to obedience of His Word,.. and you are judged by Him for that.
Our works will be judged but we ourselves are justified in the Awsome power of the Blood of Jesus. :) In Christ there is no condemnation.. None nadda and zilch. :)
 
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If you have a vehicle and the manual says.. only use a certain type of fuel.. don't you thin that the creator of the vehicle would know what his design can handle?
The only Fuel that humans use is the Spirit of God. The new wine and not the old letter of the law. Cannot put old wine into new wineskins. They burst.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The only Fuel that humans use is the Spirit of God. The new wine and not the old letter of the law. Cannot put old wine into new wineskins. They burst.
:thumbsup: :amen:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 5:37 "And no one is casting young wine into OLD vessels, if yet no surely shall be ruined the wine, the young of the vessels and it shall be being poured-out and its vessel shall be perishing/apolountai <622> .

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made Old the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".
 
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Zeena

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Regarding the "will".. that was in the scripture... when Abraham said "will". Not to be confused with the idea of "again" as you suggested.

Regarding the point about "going back" and begging for forgiveness... I never mentioned going back, but was dealing with unrepented sin... all sin needs to be repented of... or God will be dealing with...

Jeremiah 5:3
O LORD, do not your eyes look for truth? You struck them, but they felt no pain; you crushed them, but they refused correction. They made their faces harder than stone and refused to repent.

Jeremiah 8:6
I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle.

Ezekiel 18:30
"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

It is good to repent of sin.. but even more important to..

Matthew 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

When you said...

my first thought...

Romans 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

But then reading further and seeing that you were jumping from your part to his part and equated that since it was a one time deal for him it is a one time deal for you.. I understood what you were saying..

Every repentence is a humble step closer to understanding and acknowledging God and turning from sin as the light of the truth shines upon it.. so that you may walk in the path of righteousness... and stumble not... but if you do stumble.. repent...

Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
You know..

You could just repent of your entire self and get it over with, right?

Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But you'll only be willing once you know in your heart, by Grace through faith, that you indeed DIED to sin with Christ on Calvery.

You are then able to exchange your dead life for the Eternal Life of Jesus!

John 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

John 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1 Corinthians 1:2-3
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 2:11-12
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

OK, as God, by the Scripture says, it is not your job to sancify yourself. Sancification is the work of God by the Holy Spirit through the Person of Christ, and sanctification was already accomplished on your behalf by the offering up of the Body of Jesus Christ, once for all.

As I wrote to you earlier, it is also being accomplished, and will be accomplished in the ages to come, by God.

But the foundational truth of ALREADY SAVED, ALREADY JUSTIFIED, ALREADY PURE, ALREADY RIGHTEOUS, ALREADY GLORIFIED [in our spirit] is of uttmost importance in order to move on in Grace. Otherwise there is fear of punishment for sins left unrepented of, in which we freeze and are thereby useless to the Kingdom of God, because he who fears has not been perfected in Love! :o

Hebrews 6:1-3
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

I'd like to interject here because I feel it's important to share my personal experience with you, so that you do not feel I am condemning you in any way;

I do not cease to lay "the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God" for as long as I walk after my flesh, which I still do quite frequently. IN FACT, just this week I contacted a brother in Christ and asked him to pray my faith fails not, in spite of the fact that Jesus ALREADY prayed for this self-same thing [AND WAS HEARD] on my behalf. So, once I stopped and listened to the Holy Spirit, I simply 'THANKED GOD' that He did it all and MOVED ON to Glory in Christ. He expects nothing of me, except ME, that's all Love ever wants :kiss:

2 Corinthians 3:5-18
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

P.S
The Ministry of the Holy Spirit, in a born again believer, is not for tearing down [the characters of persons], but for building us up in the Most Holy faith;

BibleGateway.com - KeywordSearch: building up
 
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visionary

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Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Read this closely... IN ORDER.. that the RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW... might be fulfilled in us... stop there and think about that for a moment....

There is a monumentus change that occurred when Yeshua came.....People's understanding were being moved from the letter of the law as the religious leaders of that time were focusing in as a requirement of God.. to the spirit and intent of the law [the righteous requirements of the law] which our Lord was teaching.. ..

WHY???? you ask.... answer... IN ORDER that it might be fulfilled in us....

Pause there a moment... Now think about that...

God wants us to have "the righteous requirements of the law fulfilled in us"???

YES... we are to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.... but how you ask??

Obviously the letter of the law was not what the Lord requires... so what is missing..

IT is the spirit and intent of the law... those are the righteous requirements of the law..

NOW HOW IN THE WORLD can a person know the spirit and intent of the law??

Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

SO we need to be spiritual ourselves, so that we may have the eyes to see, and the hears to hear as the Lord requires... and His wisdom to walk in His Spirit.

Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Obviously then we need God to put His spirit in us...

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

So what happens when this transformation occurs...

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

We are released from the old way of the written code so that we can serve in the new way of the spirit....

But another spirit has so bequiled the people, that they think that means the law is done away with... and that is where those who walk in the spirit and intent of the law are concerned for those who walk in the spirit but deny any use for the law by which God through the Holy Spirit can teach them the new way...
 
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squint

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But another spirit has so bequiled the people, that they think that means the law is done away with... and that is where those who walk in the spirit and intent of the law are concerned for those who walk in the spirit but deny any use for the law by which God through the Holy Spirit can teach them the new way...

So, is the 'new way' The Spirit enabling you to not eat pork? Or follow some other physical demands of the Law? Like showing up for 'church' on Saturday?

?
 
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visionary

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So, is the 'new way' The Spirit enabling you to not eat pork? Or follow some other physical demands of the Law? Like showing up for 'church' on Saturday?

?
As the Lord has laid out.. Yes, it is His Kingdom, and these are His rules, and He is my King... I am a loyal subject to His Will.

Sometimes I just don't trust mine own understanding, as the Will of God often goes against the grain of this world, but then I knew that when I accepted Yeshua as my Lord and Savior.
 
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squint

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As the Lord has laid out.. Yes, it is His Kingdom, and these are His rules, and He is my King... I am a loyal subject to His Will.

Sometimes I just don't trust mine own understanding, as the Will of God often goes against the grain of this world, but then I knew that when I accepted Yeshua as my Lord and Savior.

What in effect you present on this matter is that NOW, via the Holy Spirit you can follow every physical aspect of O.T. Law Perfectly?

Or is it the same as they experienced, and every experiencer since...?

Try, fail, repent, be (theoretically forgiven.) Try, fail, repent, ad infinitum?
 
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Zeena

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But another spirit has so bequiled the people, that they think that means the law is done away with... and that is where those who walk in the spirit and intent of the law are concerned for those who walk in the spirit but deny any use for the law by which God through the Holy Spirit can teach them the new way...
Antimonianism is indeed a grave error, but so is legalism.

There is a fine balance between the two which can only be maintained by the Spirit of Grace in Christ.
 
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squint

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Do you not err in lumping together the levitical and the moral law?

Uh, where do you see me lumping?

Paul advised us ALL (quite clearly imho) that ANY COMMAND (Law) is both comprehended and fulfilled IN US 'when we love our neighbors' as ourselves.

This matter has nothing, exactly NOTHING to do with CEREMONY, POMP, CIRCUMSTANCE, not eating PORK...etc etc. All of those things are completely irrelevant to FULFILLING the Law, ANY Law within ourselves and WITHOUT to our neighbors, ALL of them.

Any other spin that is put upon the Law that does NOT result in the intended FINAL PRODUCE of what the LAW demands will remain just so much self justification water over the dam.

s
 
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