M
MamaZ
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If one is being lead by the Spirit of God then are we to assume that the Spirit of God is the written law?
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Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
OK then.
I saw in your following post that this was not the case, I'm glad
Agreed.
2 Corinthians 5:9
Wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him.
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Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
What we have now as the Law of Christ, Who has set us free from the law of sin and death, to paraphrase, is the moral law, written on our hearts by the pen of our God in the Face of Christ, who is Love
The Spirit of LIFE!
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That is how it is written on the heart... YES... with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit... But don't let the world and worldly religions contradict the truth.
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YES.... The Spirit of God is the Law of God in action. .. to be in our hearts and minds.. indwelling... and lived out in deed.
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squint
Well-Known Member
There is no escape or denial available from what the O.T. Laws bring us IF we are 'led' by The Spirit to be HONEST or TRUTHFUL about those facts.
The Law was written for the LAWLESS...i.e. to be AGAINST that working.
When 'any' believer admits that they have SIN and have SINNED, they are in effect 'admitting' in honesty and in TRUTH that these things exist IN THEM, both in mind and body...and that IN EFFECT is LAWLESSNESS...
The extension then is AUTOMATIC...the LAW is for THE LAWLESS...i.e. against that working and believers who are IN TRUTH cannot deny the existence of LAWLESSNESS that is 'in their members' 'their mind and body.'
The Law then in this regards is potent and powerful to REVEAL that these things are so...within us. There is no escape under the FLAG OF GRACE from this TRUTHFUL conclusion. There is no PAINTING over these 'facts' that the Law brings us available under GRACE. No, Grace has not 'escaped' you from being in TRUTH or in HONESTY. Truth and Honesty is REVEALED in those who can STAND UNDER THE LIGHT of the disclosures of the LAW.
Does one eradicate the presence of LAWLESSNESS by practice of LAW? NEVER! Does one have their factual conditions of LAWLESSNESS eliminated by GRACE? Again, NEVER!
The Law was always A TRAP for the lawless, to bring that working forth, to PROVE it is there within us all.
A believer that stands IN TRUTH will come to the LIGHT on this subject matter.
Those 'deceived' by the presence of lawlessness have very tangible, even predictable produce on the Law obedience side of this equation, claiming their lawlessness is LAWFUL by following the Law...but woe to ALL the other peoples lawless disobedience...they will suffer (insert your favorite form of condemnation of your neighbors.) In this effort they have merely served up the reality of LAWLESSNESS present, that of CONDEMNATION and DEATH to their neighbors, the very OPPOSITE of the intentions of the LAW.
Those 'deceived' by the presence of lawlessness have very tangible, even predictable produce on the GRACE SIDE of the this equation, freely forgiving their own lawlessness, denying they have it on the basis of faith, denying Gods Words that ARE EFFECTIVE for the revealing of the FACTS, of the TRUTH of this matter, and they wind up with exactly the SAME FINAL PRODUCT of the 'law obedience' crowd. The production of CONDEMNATION and DEATH to their neighbors, the very OPPOSITE of the intentions of THE LAW or of GRACE.
Yeah, all of this is open and practiced not just here, but nearly everywhere where THE WORD has been sown. And that too is EXACTLY what The Word INTENDS to transpire. In this the Working of The Word is just as powerful today as in the days of the O.T. in the days of Jesus, in the days of the early churches. Except that it has expanded and compounded the workings to a degree that perhaps none but Jesus had a sight of.
And all of these will make the same identical claim...I'm not damning anyone. I'm not condemning anyone. I'm not sending my neighbors to their eternal deaths or eternal torture....
but GOD IS...damning YOU...God is condemning you... God is going to kill you forever or burn you alive forever...
And THESE FACTS are the greatest evidence of LAWLESSNESS in the hearts of those who pick up the Word on either side of Law or Grace. It is put forth OPEN and AVAILABLE for anyone with half a wit to see....these measures are spread across all spectrums of doctrines nearly everywhere in Christiandom...
And all of them say I AM JUSTIFIED in the Lord. And YOU are not. These are the measures of supposed TRUTH that are throw about between ALL these groups.
imho, it is the frenzy of lawlessness, come to LIGHT.
And WOE to the person who observes these matters IN TRUTH. The teeth of the wolves snarl openly and quickly, amongst the sheep.
enjoy!
squint
The Law was written for the LAWLESS...i.e. to be AGAINST that working.
When 'any' believer admits that they have SIN and have SINNED, they are in effect 'admitting' in honesty and in TRUTH that these things exist IN THEM, both in mind and body...and that IN EFFECT is LAWLESSNESS...
The extension then is AUTOMATIC...the LAW is for THE LAWLESS...i.e. against that working and believers who are IN TRUTH cannot deny the existence of LAWLESSNESS that is 'in their members' 'their mind and body.'
The Law then in this regards is potent and powerful to REVEAL that these things are so...within us. There is no escape under the FLAG OF GRACE from this TRUTHFUL conclusion. There is no PAINTING over these 'facts' that the Law brings us available under GRACE. No, Grace has not 'escaped' you from being in TRUTH or in HONESTY. Truth and Honesty is REVEALED in those who can STAND UNDER THE LIGHT of the disclosures of the LAW.
Does one eradicate the presence of LAWLESSNESS by practice of LAW? NEVER! Does one have their factual conditions of LAWLESSNESS eliminated by GRACE? Again, NEVER!
The Law was always A TRAP for the lawless, to bring that working forth, to PROVE it is there within us all.
A believer that stands IN TRUTH will come to the LIGHT on this subject matter.
Those 'deceived' by the presence of lawlessness have very tangible, even predictable produce on the Law obedience side of this equation, claiming their lawlessness is LAWFUL by following the Law...but woe to ALL the other peoples lawless disobedience...they will suffer (insert your favorite form of condemnation of your neighbors.) In this effort they have merely served up the reality of LAWLESSNESS present, that of CONDEMNATION and DEATH to their neighbors, the very OPPOSITE of the intentions of the LAW.
Those 'deceived' by the presence of lawlessness have very tangible, even predictable produce on the GRACE SIDE of the this equation, freely forgiving their own lawlessness, denying they have it on the basis of faith, denying Gods Words that ARE EFFECTIVE for the revealing of the FACTS, of the TRUTH of this matter, and they wind up with exactly the SAME FINAL PRODUCT of the 'law obedience' crowd. The production of CONDEMNATION and DEATH to their neighbors, the very OPPOSITE of the intentions of THE LAW or of GRACE.
Yeah, all of this is open and practiced not just here, but nearly everywhere where THE WORD has been sown. And that too is EXACTLY what The Word INTENDS to transpire. In this the Working of The Word is just as powerful today as in the days of the O.T. in the days of Jesus, in the days of the early churches. Except that it has expanded and compounded the workings to a degree that perhaps none but Jesus had a sight of.
And all of these will make the same identical claim...I'm not damning anyone. I'm not condemning anyone. I'm not sending my neighbors to their eternal deaths or eternal torture....
but GOD IS...damning YOU...God is condemning you... God is going to kill you forever or burn you alive forever...
And THESE FACTS are the greatest evidence of LAWLESSNESS in the hearts of those who pick up the Word on either side of Law or Grace. It is put forth OPEN and AVAILABLE for anyone with half a wit to see....these measures are spread across all spectrums of doctrines nearly everywhere in Christiandom...
And all of them say I AM JUSTIFIED in the Lord. And YOU are not. These are the measures of supposed TRUTH that are throw about between ALL these groups.
imho, it is the frenzy of lawlessness, come to LIGHT.
And WOE to the person who observes these matters IN TRUTH. The teeth of the wolves snarl openly and quickly, amongst the sheep.
enjoy!
squint
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ok... we agree that sinning is the deeds of lawlessness
yes.. any time you sin.. it is the Holy Spirit showing you what Law you have broken .. that is its purpose
Yes... But by the grace of God, forgiveness is offered, and upon accepting that, knowing that the blood of Yeshua has cleansed us, we walk in the newness of His Spirit
Look around you in the real world... all law abiders are ones who practice the law of the land they live in... they are not lawless, law breakers, and do not practice lawlessness... Let me emphasis this... YOU CAN NOT ERADICATE THE PRESENCE OF LAWLESSNESS.... but the Lord can by teaching you how to keep His spiritual laws...
Grace is the offer of forgiveness, that we do not deserve, for the Laws of God we have broken.
I am sure you are right that the lawless would feel that the Law is a trap for them ... They, being lawless, are found guilty.
But I, personally, do not think of it as a trap, because I accept that it is the Holy Spirit convicting me, and if my heart is not hardened or rebelling, it will humble submit to its minstrations and repent, and be transformed into what God Wills for me.
amen
The lawlessness mind will never have the right perception of the Law of God .. so it makes sense that they will be claiming that their lawlessness is lawful.
What is the intentions of the Law...
1.) define sin
2.) reveal God's process for cleansing soul of sin
3.) righteousness
4.) teach right living [schoolmaster]
5.) God's Kingdom Laws
6.) converting the soul
It is like following the narrow path and broad roads of each side of the equation
It is one thing to give warnings, as that is the calling of the believers, it is quite another to get involved on what is the Lord's vengence, or judgements or the Holy Spirit's job of conviction.
as it should as the day draws nearer to His return..
that would be so wrong, that is God's job and the Holy spirit's Job of conviction
THen He will have to be the one to say that
We will just have to pray that the Holy Spirit leads the believers into walking in the truth of both... walking on the path of the Law with His Grace and blessings of the Holy Spirit to light the Way.
Now that is a serious claim...
Psalm 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
Psalm 119:2
Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Proverbs 8:32
Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Luke 11:28
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
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squint
Well-Known Member
Uh, look. In matters of LAW, the LAWLESS will NEVER be 'lawful.' Only the opposite will be the result of forcing LAWLESSNESS under the law.
The law as it pertains to the flesh is to produce the fact that LAWLESSNESS is present. Lawlessness is EVIL PRESENT. That working will NEVER 'be good' 'lawful' or anything but what IT IS no matter what is painted over it.
yeah, well, whatever loop you see fit to play with the presence of lawlessness is not my problem. When you see yourself as not one whit different THAN IT...keeping on trying to CHANGE it, you will continue to play that loop ad infinitum as previously noted. You have my sympathy for that effort, because it will always land back into the loop no matter how much effort you put to it.
Well, you see again, that your own lawlessness present is at best in your own mind only TEMPORARILY obedient. In reality it is merely covered up til it can trap you once again...but WOE to those 'other people.' That too is a working of lawlessness in you, thinking your lawless presence is better'n theirs. It's not.
Yeah, right. If you bothered to read my previous post that was already shown. YOUR lawlessness is good. Your lawlessness is justified. Your lawlessness is LEGAL when it follows the LAW. But woe to all them other people. It's the same old game and the same old working and the same old bottom line. Repeat ad infinitum.
Isn't that what you just did with yours?
Well, I've seen a lot of lists in my day to justify and rid believers lawlessness present. Here's a clue. It ain't going away and it ain't changing and it's not going to obey even if you think it does.
Lawlessness is not going to be following any 'narrow paths' either. It always lands on the same broad path of the condemnation, damnation and death to our neighbors. And this is your open produce of your own supposed obedience and lawlessness present. You have FOUND the broad path that leads to the destruction of your neighbors, the very ones that same LAW has commanded you to LOVE...
I wouldn't be expecting lawlessness present to change it's stripes anytime soon. But hey, if your lawlessness present is better than all the other peoples and you can justify your own lawlessness and cover it up and claim immunity...and condemn your neighbors lawlessness and throw them to death, and claim you don't, more power to ya... Most peoples bottom lines on these matters are open before all right out of their own mouths.
enjoy!
squint
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
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The law did not cleanse sin,never did,never will.
The law was not God's righteousness.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it
Romans 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
We are not under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
No,the kingdom of God is righteousness peace and Joy,not food laws.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
The law was a tutor,not a converter.
And the very word says,we are not under law.
Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace
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DO you really understand what you are saying?? Let's go slow here...
Place lawlessness on the opposite side of the law
Now make sure you understand....
- the definition of the law is found written on the tables of stone.
- the regulations on dealing with the law breakers are found in the parchment
1.) there is the penalty {punishment}
2.) there is the remedy {aka sacrifice for sin}
yes we have covered that and both I believe are in agreement on that fact..
Is this your own personal experience with this? Have you not overcome any sin in your life? Have you and the Lord not won any battles with evil? Are you the same as before you met Christ? Have you not been still and seen what the Lord can do?
The way you describe things, you give me the impression that you are diving deeper into the cesspool because you have lost your bearings and do not know the way up. This loop that you speak of, reminds me of Jacob who is fighting in the night, not knowing who he is wrestling with, all because of an old sin in the relationship with his brother. You seem to be wrestling with the Words of God, thinking that they are mine.
Be ye content in the Lord. Only He can set you free from this trap you think is happening here. I will be praying for you. This thought loop that has been posted over and over by you, seems to have you trapped in seeing every scripture as lawlessness which is not a godly thought. Wake up, it is God you are wrestling with.
Please read what you just wrote..
"lawlessness is legal when it follows the law"
Lawlessness is never legal. It never follows the law.
Can't comment because I can make out what you are trying to say here .."rid believers lawlessness present"
If I see what you are saying...
SImply put .. you are saying
God's laws are lawlessness.
And you present the spirit of lawlessness.
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squint
Well-Known Member
Your formula is self imposed.
The law was not about follow, break, repent, be forgiven, repeat ad infinitum. The demands of the LAW were for PERFECT obedience. There was no standard set below PERFECTION. Even the command of PERFECTION is contained 'in the Law.'
Deuteronomy 18:13
Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
It would quickly come to view that NONE, absolutely NONE attained to this MEASURE, and YES, that did result in both the AMPLIFICATIONS of their imperfections/SINS and their eventual judgment and scattering.
Do you really believe it is any different for any fleshly follower of LAW? No. Every single so called follower openly demonstrate their own imperfections continually...and then track out some contrived absolution formulas to paint over their IMperfections/SINS...all the while heaping the condemnation that has shown up in them upon their neighbors.
What a pathetic result of 'following' the LAW.
You and every legalist at this board continues to overlook the obvious difficulty here. NO, your indwelling sin, your EVIL PRESENT (I include my own in these measures) IS NOT GOING TO BE LAWFUL. Evil present is not going to BE obedient. Evil present is NOT going to love our neighbors as themselves. Evil present will produce SELF righteousness and forgiveness to itself while it casts everyone else INTO HELL. This is the 'reality' of what EVIL PRESENT DOES and what EVIL PRESENT produces.
No amount of 'obedience' is going to change EVIL PRESENT.
Uh, NO. I am not interested in the FINAL PRODUCE that EVIL PRESENT makes. I am not interested in the AMPLIFICATION, EMPOWERMENT and DISOBEDIENCE that EVIL PRESENT obtains 'under the LAW.' And I am particularly not interested in the contrived hypocritical views of EVIL PRESENT about how much better one person who follows the LAW is compared to another persons EVIL PRESENT because it's NON-existent.
Look, I already know the responses of EVIL PRESENT before it's put to cyberspace. Not ME, but GOD... just respun at yet ANOTHER angle.
sure...
The trap is set to SHOW the reality of EVIL PRESENT. The NEXT TRAP is to justify it. The NEXT TRAP is to produce the exact OPPOSITE of the requirements of the LAW which is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. I just look to your own PRODUCE in comparision to THE LAWS COMMANDS...and they obviously DIDN'T land in the intended position.
Read again the above, and the quote says no different. Your lawlessness did not go away by your obedience nor did or will EVIL PRESENT change via your OBEDIENCE. And NO, lawlessness is NOT LEGAL, even when it 'appears' on the outside to be compliant.
I believe that was my quote prior. It remains a scriptural fact.
lol...Gods Law stands...and it stands to condemn sin in sinful flesh, to expose it, to reveal it, to even AMPLIFY it so that you CANNOT deny its' presence....that working has not changed, and it so also under grace.
No visionary...your lawlessness is not about the change by putting on a little exterior 'obedient' make-up/make-believe. It's still there and it still does what it does regardless. This is where the LAW takes lawlessness one way or another, sooner or later.
enjoy!
squint
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Aren't you glad for our Lord and His mercy and forgiveness, His righteousness, and His Justification, and His Way which is not in the letter because that is the one that you see bring death and destruction and no gains but in the spirit which He provides?
Praise the Lord for what we could not do, He does through the Holy Spirit in us. It is almost impossible to fathom, but if we trust Him, He can accomplish it in us. That is His promise to us. By faith we live breath and have our being in Him.
As far as the justifying or sanctifying, that is in the Lord's hands, we are only to live in His Kingdom, under His rule now. .. and forever more. He will win the battle.
Praise the Lord for what we could not do, He does through the Holy Spirit in us. It is almost impossible to fathom, but if we trust Him, He can accomplish it in us. That is His promise to us. By faith we live breath and have our being in Him.
As far as the justifying or sanctifying, that is in the Lord's hands, we are only to live in His Kingdom, under His rule now. .. and forever more. He will win the battle.
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Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
Jesus Christ attained that measure, as a man.
Nope, and that is why we were crucified with Christ, THAT the body of sin might be done away with!
Jesus came as a man, with human nature did He clothe Himself, and yet you say He has 'evil present'?
Well, even if He did [which He most certainly did NOT!], He is THE overcomer, and we are more than overcomers in and through Him
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squint
Well-Known Member
Uh, I bow to the fact that Satan had 'nothing' IN Jesus...of course.
The sinless perfection of flesh or mind is not presented anywhere in the text with the exception of God Himself IN Flesh.. In fact most believers can't even produce a MODICUM of truth regarding these matters of their evil present BECAUSE of evil present within.
One might even think the production of TRUTH about these matters is what THE LAW had at least partly in mind..
Never have. Never will. If you believe however that His 'sinlessness' was transferred to you, the Word will deny that falsehood.
Well, even if He did [which He most certainly did NOT!], He is THE overcomer, and we are more than overcomers in and through Him
GREAT! But that still didn't change evil present ONE IOTA. If anything it was even MORE enraged that 'somebody' got away...who had 'ratted' them OUT.
enjoy!
squint
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squint
Well-Known Member
Neither the Spirit nor the letter has provided any quarter or cover for the FACTS, nor has evil present been excused, forgiven or been eradicated by those measures. Nice try though... (predicted in prior post as well.)
Yes, praise God we can deny the facts that TRUTH brings us all the doi de day long...
Uh, no. No evil present will be justified or smoothed over. It will ALL be openly revealed, just like what is going on right now. And evil present will go kicking and screaming right to the END of 'their' world.
enjoy!
squint
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I am not entangled in the evil presence of earth, I am looking for for my redeemer drawth nigh and it is to Him goes all the glory ... I rest my salvation on Him... whom seeks to save the lost.
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squint
Well-Known Member
Who ME? Naw...she say..I ain't got NO EVIL present. That's the OTHER people...(predicted in prior post)
Great! Hope He drops a truth bomb in the temple thar real soon...a LAW BOMB...
Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Any O' you 'law abidin' folk wanna 'fess up' under THIS LAW?
tick...tock...
s
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