Need Help Finding Something About BLM

[istodolez]

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I wish there was a way to interpret this comment. I'll assume you agree with me wholeheartedly barring any alternative explanation.

I still prefer "words" when I want to express the content of my thoughts. Sorry.

 

[grasping the after wind]

So you want someone to prove a negative for you?

Perhaps you should reread the OP? Chesterton did not ask anyone to prove anything. He asked for a quote from someone prominent in BLM stating that BLM has nothing to do with Marxism. Even if one were to find such a quote it would just be someone saying something not actual proof of anything.

 

[istodolez]

Perhaps you should reread the OP? Chesterton did not ask anyone to prove anything.

-sigh-

He asked for a quote from someone prominent in BLM stating that BLM has nothing to do with Marxism.

When one says "prove a negative" it is not always in the sense of a mathematical "proof". It is any time when someone requires that something be provided that is an establishment of the LACK of existence of something else.

For instance: I'm an atheist. Ergo I don't have the belief in God. BUT at no point would I ever support the claim "There is no God" precisely because that is "proving a negative". There may very well be a God but he just hasn't been found.

In this case it is no more the burden of the folks in BLM to clearly state "We are not a Marxist organization" than it is for them to say "We in BLM do NOT condone the use of mayonnaise on french fries".

 

[grasping the after wind]

-sigh-



When one says "prove a negative" it is not always in the sense of a mathematical "proof". It is any time when someone requires that something be provided that is an establishment of the LACK of existence of something else.

For instance: I'm an atheist. Ergo I don't have the belief in God. BUT at no point would I ever support the claim "There is no God" precisely because that is "proving a negative". There may very well be a God but he just hasn't been found.

In this case it is no more the burden of the folks in BLM to clearly state "We are not a Marxist organization" than it is for them to say "We in BLM do NOT condone the use of mayonnaise on french fries".

Chesterton requested a link to someone saying something. He did not ask anyone to prove a negative. Why are you burdening us all with the protracted commentary on something that is totally irrelevant to the OP's request?

 

[Silmarien]

I must disagree. The people themselves may claim to be "Marxists" but the organization isn't Marxist per se. That difference may seem overly pendantic and subtle but it is key to this debate.

But I generally agree that a better tactic would be to eliminate the overt negativity to the term, but it has such a "history" among American Conservatives that at this point it will only be leveraged as an attack.

The easier route is to simply point out that the organization qua BLM is not, itself, expressly Marxist.

But do you really believe you're ever going to convince a conservative who has seen leaders of BLM call themselves Marxists that the organization is not itself Marxist as well?

I'm not really sure it even matters, since the organization itself is definitely based in critical race theory, and therefore fairly neo-Marxist. I think the best idea might be to just ignore it and find more conservative voices who still talk about racial issues. Which shouldn't be hard, since very nearly everyone is more conservative than them.

 

[Silmarien]

For instance: I'm an atheist. Ergo I don't have the belief in God. BUT at no point would I ever support the claim "There is no God" precisely because that is "proving a negative". There may very well be a God but he just hasn't been found.

You're gonna trigger people with this comparison, you know.

 

[zippy2006]

But is one NOT allowed to label themselves as they see fit?

You can label yourself however you like. If you are a white man you can label yourself a black woman. My point is that you shouldn't get testy when other people call you a white man.

...are you going to now replay for us the entire history of how Marxism was utilized to ultimately wind up with a Stalinist Dictatorship? You may as well tell us how Christianity wound up being the home of people who murder doctors or tell people at funerals their loved ones are going to hell or who tortured countless Jews in the Pogroms.

Ideologies are just that: ideologies. They can be hijacked and warped and extrapolated to extremes. If you can find something within the actual BLM STATEMENTS that is troubling, lay those out rather than simply tossing "Marxism" at it like it's some sort of ipso facto "EEEEEEVIL".

Right: Stalin killed dozens of millions of innocent people, but an anti-abortion Christian killed some abortionists! The desperate weakness of that argument ought to cause a lightbulb to go on for you.

 

[eleos1954]

I'm an existential nihilist. Do you think I can put together the slides I'm supposed to present to management next week?

Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

What just a bunch of blobs passing through time?

 

[All Englands Skies]

But do you really believe you're ever going to convince a conservative who has seen leaders of BLM call themselves Marxists that the organization is not itself Marxist as well?

I'm not really sure it even matters, since the organization itself is definitely based in critical race theory, and therefore fairly neo-Marxist. I think the best idea might be to just ignore it and find more conservative voices who still talk about racial issues. Which shouldn't be hard, since very nearly everyone is more conservative than them.

Well its hard getting people to realise old school Liberalism and Modern Conservatism are cut from the same cloth and Marxism was heavily against the "Liberal bourgeois".

 

[All Englands Skies]

Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

What just a bunch of blobs passing through time?

Little point in anything when it comes to nihilism. comes over as Philosophy for philosophy's sake for the most part.

 

[eleos1954]

Little point in anything when it comes to nihilism. comes over as Philosophy for philosophy's sake for the most part.

this is disturbing .... atheist or not

existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant ...

 

[All Englands Skies]

this is disturbing .... atheist or not

existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant ...

Why worry, most Nihilists are crackpots anyway.

 

[eleos1954]

Why worry, most Nihilists are crackpots anyway.

not worried about it .... just find it cold and very dark ... honestly had to look it up ... never heard the term before ... and whoa ... I mean WHOA LOL

 

[Arc F1]

Given the way communities of color are over-policed, I would very much suspect that they actually are being targeted disproportionately for marijuana possession.

If neighborhood A has 500 crimes a day and neighborhood B has 25 crimes a day how could you police each equally? Should they just stop enforcement in neighborhood A to keep things equal? The attention will always be on high crime neighborhoods first. It's not color it's the amount of crime that draws police attention.

 

[Arc F1]

A month and a half into protests and I still can't believe comments like this are cropping up.

Selective policing takes place in many places. Often white kids/people aren't stopped at all, and if they are stopped any drugs they have are confiscated and they are sent on their way, or they are just sent on their way.

When doing stop and frisk in NY, a higher percentage of whites had illegal substances when frisked, but they weren't the ones being targeted. In some areas the percentage of black people stopped and frisk was above their percentage in that areas population, because it was being used as a means of harassment and back citizens were being stopped multiple times.

Not to mention legal representation. A white person with a lawyer is going to gain freedom far more often than a black person without one or with a public defender. White kids are also seen as needing guidance while black kids are seen as needing to be controlled and to have an example made out of them. This results in less dismissals, harsher judgements etc, just like with school discipline. Collective thinking is that black behavioral problems are an inherent character flaw, white behavioral problems are just a phase of which they will outgrow.

People don't consider even weapon wielding, wildly aggressive white folks to be a threat.

ACLU had a report they did a few years ago. The PDF is online. Google Selective Policing: Racially Disparate Enforcement of Low-Level Offenses in New Jersey.

You would find yourself in the same position as the police after a while. They become desensitized. If low income communities stopped the crime they would shift the focus onto others. Not to far from where I live there is a low income community and the police are there several times a day. The police are never at my house. Would you see that as the police picking on them and not me or would you see that as me just not committing any crimes? They have the option to behave like I do yet they don't. Who's fault is that?

 

[Silmarien]

If neighborhood A has 500 crimes a day and neighborhood B has 25 crimes a day how could you police each equally? Should they just stop enforcement in neighborhood A to keep things equal? The attention will always be on high crime neighborhoods first. It's not color it's the amount of crime that draws police attention.

The problem isn't exclusively paying more attention to high crime areas (though I believe over-policing does lead to problems, like reduced trust between the police and the population), but specifically targeting people for minor offenses like marijuana possession. You're not paying attention to violent criminals if you're wasting your time (and state resources) busting people for marijuana.

 

[istodolez]

Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

What just a bunch of blobs passing through time?

I don't see any inherent value on a universal scale. But locally, yeah, fine. I get up, do my job. Hope against hope that I don't make things harder on anyone around me. My "meaning" is what I bring to the table. It is "meaningful" to me that I do my job well and try to treat others well and not be a stumbling block for others.

I am simply of the belief that in the fullness of time and on a universal scale there is no "inherent" meaning. If you have meaning in your life YOU are responsible for creating that meaning. And when we are all dead generations later most of us will not be remembered at all.

It may sound kinda "dark" but it's like trying to figure out the "meaning" of this piece of rock sitting here on my doorstep. It just is, no meaning, no particular reason for it to be here other than the physical processes that resulted in it being here.

 

[istodolez]

Why worry, most Nihilists are crackpots anyway.

Ummm, thanks?

Like I said my nihilism is simply an acceptance that I don't have any sort of "universal meaning". Any meaning to my life is wholly within the framework of where I'm at and what I bring to the table.

There are millions of people who lived on this planet and whose lives are long lost to time and completely forgotten. That doesn't mean they couldn't have a good life, but just that in the fullness of all time and the universe there wasn't any sort of "inherent" raison d'etre for them.

But, hey, thanks for slamming me, insulting me, whatever. If it helps you then enjoy it!

 

[istodolez]

this is disturbing .... atheist or not

existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant ...

I don't see why that is so disturbing. Remember: in the big picture.

But look at this thread: I'm for people working to help others lives be better. Not because I think that is my "reason" for being. It is just that we are all on this single speck of rock in the middle of nearly impossible vastness of space and time and ultimately none of it is "necessary". I am not here because some force in the universe decreed "There must be an istodolez on earth in the late 20th, early 21st century such that the entire timeline going forward is made possible!"

But while I'm here, knowing that I will not be remembered 20 years after I die, I want to be part of the solutions, not part of the problems.

 

[eleos1954]

I don't see why that is so disturbing. Remember: in the big picture.

But look at this thread: I'm for people working to help others lives be better. Not because I think that is my "reason" for being. It is just that we are all on this single speck of rock in the middle of nearly impossible vastness of space and time and ultimately none of it is "necessary". I am not here because some force in the universe decreed "There must be an on earth in the late 20th, early 21st century such that the entire timeline going forward is made possible!"

But while I'm here, knowing that I will not be remembered 20 years after I die, I want to be part of the solutions, not part of the problems.

I think most of us want to be part of the solutions ... just vary in the means/way of how that might be accomplished.

Just seems like the mindset of is meaningless and futile.

ni·hil·ist
noun
plural noun: nihilists

1. a person who believes that life is meaningless

If that's the case why bother or care about solutions they are meaningless anyway

But glad to hear you do seek solutions.