Nearly every voting bloc moved to the right in this election

[RileyG]

So... be scared, but don't worry?

Yes, essentially.

 

[Nithavela]

Yes, essentially.

You can see how this might seem like mixed messages for someone with a less enlightened mind than yours?

 

[RileyG]

You can see how this might seem like mixed messages for someone with a less enlightened mind than yours?

Maybe? I never said I was too enlightened though

The left also said our nation would survive Obama….which we did.

 

[Fervent]

Now you are not treating me as an individual. While there is truth in your statement, you don't know me or know what comes naturally to me after having spent all my life around people of color.
I treat everyone the same. That's why my employees from my last job still text me everyday and I go back to Selma regularly and have lunch with them.
You're lumping me in a group without considering me as an individual.

You seem to be reading accusation where none is present. I don't know how you treat people, or how accurate your belief that you treat everyone the same is. That's something you've got to figure out for yourself. What I do know is that "equality" is not enough when there are real systemic problems and hidden biases, and that appeals to treat people the same effectively dismiss the real experiences of discrimination people face.

 

[BPPLEE]

You seem to be reading accusation where none is present. I don't know how you treat people, or how accurate your belief that you treat everyone the same is. That's something you've got to figure out for yourself. What I do know is that "equality" is not enough when there are real systemic problems and hidden biases, and that appeals to treat people the same effectively dismiss the real experiences of discrimination people face.

Oh, I'm supposed to do something extra for minorities because of inequities that I had nothing to do with, but you think that I have benefited from them in some way so treating people equally is inadequate. I see
Apparently I am indebted to minorities for something that I had nothing to do with

 

[Fervent]

Oh, I'm supposed to do something extra for minorities because of inequities that I had nothing to do with, but you think that I have benefited from them in some way so treating people equally is inadequate. I see
Apparently I am indebted to minorities for something that I had nothing to do with

Yeah, why should we care about anyone but ourselves? Do you have to cause a problem to want to see it fixed? Is it not enough to try to reduce the suffering in the world to the extent that you are able?

 

[BPPLEE]

Yeah, why should we care about anyone but ourselves? Do you have to cause a problem to want to see it fixed? Is it not enough to try to reduce the suffering in the world to the extent that you are able?

By treating people equally and with respect and giving the same opportunity that I would give anyone else somehow I am inadequate?
When I hired them and helped them and gave them opportunity somehow discriminating against white people would make me more moral?
You're going to have to sell that to someone else while you're trying to assuage your white guilt

 

[Fervent]

By treating people equally and with respect and giving the same opportunity that I would give anyone else somehow I am inadequate?

did they really have the same opportunity, though?

When I hired them and helped them and gave them opportunity somehow discriminating against white people would make me more moral?

Jumping to conclusions here, no one said anything about disciminatory hiring policies. Why is the first thing you jump to when you hear about equity "discriminating against white people" rather than things like investing resources in struggling neighborhoods, creating programs to work with disadvantaged youth and give them training and education opportunities they lack, etc? Why is your first reaction "Well, won't you think about the white people!"

You're going to have to sell that to someone else while you're trying to assuage your white guilt

I have no white guilt, but I recognize that the history of the US has created a situation in which a group of people are inherently disadvantaged across multiple sectors and the opportunities they are afforded are not the same based on the color of their skin. Whether or not we are guilty of the mess we are in, it is still rather unloving to turn a blind eye to ongoing human suffering just because we don't personally have any blame in the situation.

 

[BPPLEE]

did they really have the same opportunity, though?

Jumping to conclusions here, no one said anything about disciminatory hiring policies. Why is the first thing you jump to when you hear about equity "discriminating against white people" rather than things like investing resources in struggling neighborhoods, creating programs to work with disadvantaged youth and give them training and education opportunities they lack, etc? Why is your first reaction "Well, won't you think about the white people!"

I have no white guilt, but I recognize that the history of the US has created a situation in which a group of people are inherently disadvantaged across multiple sectors and the opportunities they are afforded are not the same based on the color of their skin. Whether or not we are guilty of the mess we are in, it is still rather unloving to turn a blind eye to ongoing human suffering just because we don't personally have any blame in the situation.

I'm talking about things that I can do myself. What are you doing to make a difference?

 

[Fervent]

I'm talking about things that I can do myself. What are you doing to make a difference?

The only thing you can think to do is discriminate against white people? Most of what I do personally involves working with low income students both in my job and through volunteer work, and then various advocacy projects I'm involved in. And having conversations like the one we're having to try to shift the thinking from "equity=taking away opportunities from white people" to "equity=creating opportunities for marginalized groups." But there is far more that can be done on a societal level than a personal level, and sometimes that's going to be unequal distribution of government resources because there is a greater need in those communities Why do you take this all so personally?

 

[BPPLEE]

The only thing you can think to do is discriminate against white people? Most of what I do personally involves working with low income students both in my job and through volunteer work, and then various advocacy projects I'm involved in. And having conversations like the one we're having to try to shift the thinking from "equity=taking away opportunities from white people" to "equity=creating opportunities for marginalized groups." But there is far more that can be done on a societal level than a personal level, and sometimes that's going to be unequal distribution of government resources because there is a greater need in those communities Why do you take this all so personally?

I don't have any objections to how government resources are used to help minorities and I didn't say discrimination against white people helped anyone.
Personally I don't discriminate against anyone, I treat them as equals and the opportunities that I had to offer I did so without prejudice or discrimination
I supported the only private school in my area that accepted black students and served on the board there. I was a youth minister and had a vibrant, diverse youth group that I gave the opportunities and support that I could

 

[mark46]

oh? that's why African Americans vote 80-90% the same as each other? The voting solidarity leads being identified as a voting block, the challenge is explaining what the dynamics are that create the voting block and what their common interests are.

95% of black women voted for Harris. The number for black men was close to 80%.

Treating black men and black women as one voting block was a serious mistake made by Harris.

 

[mark46]

APRIL 25, 2023
Biden announces that he is NOT running for re-election for the presidency.
==========
In the biggest gaffe/mistake of his career, Biden left a word out of his April 25th, 2023 announcement.

18 months would have allowed plenty of time for a "normal" primary process and plenty of time to campaign against Trump.

The fact that Harris refused to listen to the advice of Democrats who had run successful campaigns was simply the frosting on the cake. She and her folks were simply incompetent and refused to listen to advice from the Bill Clinton and Obama folks (the centrists).

 

[rjs330]

This ideal is really only possible to hold for someone who visibly belongs to the dominant group. Things like aversive racism and structural racism are very real things, and they create the perception in visible minorities of living in a hostile culture that people who aren't part of a group marginalized for a visible difference won't understand. This changes voting behavior by creating a solidarity on the basis of that visible element that leads to their marginalization.

I reject this promise. The ideal is for everyone. When one stops looking for racism around every corner one starts to see less of it. The culture is not hostile to people based upon skin color.

This is what character is all about. America is not a racist angry culture who hates certain people who are "marginalized." When you as a group.are preached at non-stop that the whole reason for your current circumstances is because another group has it out for you you believe it. Black people are inundated with the nonsense that you are spewing. It starts to sink in and you start to believe it.

Now they are being told that the reason Trump won is because black men and Hispanic men are misogynistic.

It's disgusting.

 

[rjs330]

Being able to be treated as an individual is a privilege that a lot of people don't understand is a privilege, especially if they don't belong to a marginalized group.

Is that what's happening when black and Hispanic men are being accused of misogyny? Are they the privileged group that doesn't belong to the marginalized group of women?

 

[rjs330]

Though like I said, the issue with the sentiment of "treat people as people" is it fails to recognize structural problems that restrict access to employment, housing, education, and other aspects of public life based on visible characteristics.

There are no structural problems of the nature you claim. What is going on is the left being bolstered by the media and the education system who spouts that nonsense. There is absolutely nothing preventing any black person from participating in any career they wish to pursue, except those things we all face such as talents or personality types. A black person can be a lawyer, doctor, dentist, plumber, electrician etc. There is no system that preve is that. There is no system that doesn't allow black people to live where they want to live. Education is open to all black people. In fact there have been institutions who used Affirmative action to chose black people over other races.

There are few if any black leaders who are telling black people that they can go do and be and pursue whatever they want. Instead you have race hustlers who continue to preach that America is so racist and wishes to hold black people back and don't want them to succeed.

 

[rjs330]

Taught by who? Your experience is nice and all, but anecdotes are rarely informative on issues like this. And I don't particularly care what "most of the people you know" have in their background. And given your background, are you denying that black people have a strong sense of social identification with each other in a way that white people don't? That there is a stronger sense that of "my people" and a feeling that they are all in "the struggle"? Do you deny that there is a unique black identity and subculture?

They are taught by parents, the education system, the media, their political leaders, celebrities and social media. They all tell them that America is a racist country and every struggle they might face is based upon that fact. When you are surrounded by that you start to believe it. And then you start to see it everywhere. Somebody looks at you funny and they did it because they are racist. You are speeding and a cop pulls you over because they are a racist. Harris didn't get elected because she's a black woman. It's what you are told from rhe moment you start to learn. Why wouldn't you believe it.

Why do you think that the schools are trying so hard to indoctrinate kids in various ideologies? Its because they know how much influence they have on kids.

 

[mark46]

Is that what's happening when black and Hispanic men are being accused of misogyny? Are they the privileged group that doesn't belong to the marginalized group of women?

QUESTION 1
Which groups are more likely to vote for a woman for president?
1) white men
2) Hispanic men
3) black men

==========
QUESTION
Percentage voting for Harris
1) black men 2024
2) black women 2024
3) back voters 2024
4) black men 2020
5) black women 2020
===============
===========
And, yes, we could discuss the reasons if there are significant differences.

 

[rjs330]

QUESTION 1
Which groups are more likely to vote for a woman for president?
1) white men
2) Hispanic men
3) black men

==========
QUESTION
Percentage voting for Harris
1) black men 2024
2) black women 2024
3) back voters 2024
4) black men 2020
5) black women 2020
===============
===========
And, yes, we could discuss the reasons if there are significant differences.

I didn't ask that.

 

[Fervent]

There are no structural problems of the nature you claim. What is going on is the left being bolstered by the media and the education system who spouts that nonsense. There is absolutely nothing preventing any black person from participating in any career they wish to pursue, except those things we all face such as talents or personality types. A black person can be a lawyer, doctor, dentist, plumber, electrician etc. There is no system that preve is that. There is no system that doesn't allow black people to live where they want to live. Education is open to all black people. In fact there have been institutions who used Affirmative action to chose black people over other races.

So then why does the achievement gap exist? Why do social problems like racial disparities in imprisonment exist? If the opportunities are equal, why the differing outcomes?

There are few if any black leaders who are telling black people that they can go do and be and pursue whatever they want. Instead you have race hustlers who continue to preach that America is so racist and wishes to hold black people back and don't want them to succeed.

Ah...there's just not enough well wishers. That explains it. Totally not that there are embedded issues in laws, historic economic disparity, and lingering impact from legal discrimination that hasn't yet been addressed. Completely the fault of the people calling attention to the issues at hand and not enough affirmation.