Nearly every voting bloc moved to the right in this election

[BPPLEE]

oh? that's why African Americans vote 80-90% the same as each other? The voting solidarity leads being identified as a voting block, the challenge is explaining what the dynamics are that create the voting block and what their common interests are.

They vote that way because that is what they were taught to do. But some of them are waking up. I grew up in Selma, Alabama. I lived and worked there for over 40 years. I went to a majority black school. I grew up, played football with and worked with black people my whole life. At my last job all my staff were black except for one Latino. I interacted with and helped illegal immigrants on a regular basis. I currently live in Montgomery and most of my staff are black.
Most of the people I know who think like you do have never been around the minorities they claim to care so much about

 

[Fervent]

They vote that way because that is what they were taught to do. But some of them are waking up. I grew up in Selma, Alabama. I lived and worked there for over 40 years. I went to a majority black school. I grew up, played football with and worked with black people my whole life. At my last job all my staff were black except for one Latino. I interacted with and helped illegal immigrants on a regular basis. I currently live in Montgomery and most of my staff are black.
Most of the people I know who think like you do have never been around the minorities they claim to care so much about

Taught by who? Your experience is nice and all, but anecdotes are rarely informative on issues like this. And I don't particularly care what "most of the people you know" have in their background. And given your background, are you denying that black people have a strong sense of social identification with each other in a way that white people don't? That there is a stronger sense that of "my people" and a feeling that they are all in "the struggle"? Do you deny that there is a unique black identity and subculture?

 

[BPPLEE]

Taught by who? Your experience is nice and all, but anecdotes are rarely informative on issues like this. And I don't particularly care what "most of the people you know" have in their background. And given your background, are you denying that black people have a strong sense of social identification with each other in a way that white people don't? That there is a stronger sense that of "my people" and a feeling that they are all in "the struggle"? Do you deny that there is a unique black identity and subculture?

Do you deny that you don’t know very many of these people you think you know so much about? They were taught by their parents to vote for Democrats and it’s all some of them have ever known or ever done. They have sample ballots that are filled out to show them who to vote for. Not all of them. There are intelligent people who vote for Democrats for their own reasons. But the fact that so many consistently vote for one party shows that it’s more than just an informed choice.

 

[BCP1928]

Taught by who? Your experience is nice and all, but anecdotes are rarely informative on issues like this. And I don't particularly care what "most of the people you know" have in their background. And given your background, are you denying that black people have a strong sense of social identification with each other in a way that white people don't? That there is a stronger sense that of "my people" and a feeling that they are all in "the struggle"? Do you deny that there is a unique black identity and subculture?

Of course, but from an economic and labor policy standpoint working class men and women of all races, creeds and colors have more in common with one another as working men and women than they do with the elites of whatever identity group they happen to belong to. The Democrats forgot about that and counted too much on the obvious racism of the hard-core right to give them the working class vote.

 

[Fervent]

Do you deny that you don’t know very many of these people you think you know so much about?

I do deny that, and your question is more or less a distraction.

They were taught by their parents to vote for Democrats and it’s all some of them have ever known or ever done. They have sample ballots that are filled out to show them who to vote for. Not all of them. There are intelligent people who vote for Democrats for their own reasons. But the fact that so many consistently vote for one party shows that it’s more than just an informed choice.

Their parents? Hm...so, other black people? And of course it's more than just an informed choice. The question is why there seems to be such a strong group dynamic. And its not just a matter of voting for democrats, because that's just one element of the social and cultural dynamics.

 

[Fervent]

Of course, but from an economic and labor policy standpoint working class men and women of all races, creeds and colors have more in common with one another as working men and women than they do with the elites of whatever identity group they happen to belong to. The Democrats forgot about that and counted too much on the obvious racism of the hard-core right to give them the working class vote.

Solidarity among marginalized groups crosses socio-economic lines. The issue actually isn't economic or ideological, because there is a wide variety of economic and ideological diversity among these groups but the common experience of being marginalized creates a stronger bond than the ideological differences and allows for social pressures to overwhelm other considerations. Supposed color-blindness and other faux egalitarian sentiments don't deal with the reality of people's experiences.

 

[Chesterton]

Politics enters into everything, as all social exchanges involve some sort of power dynamic. Though like I said, the issue with the sentiment of "treat people as people" is it fails to recognize structural problems that restrict access to employment, housing, education, and other aspects of public life based on visible characteristics. The dismissiveness adds fuel to the leftist agenda because even though their solution infantilizes these groups at least they recognize the problems that these groups face. The reality is that we all have hidden biases and prejudices, and the only way to truly engage people as individuals is to actively confront those biases rather than dismissing them. So what I am getting at is not that we shouldn't to the best of our ability treat each person as an individual, but that we cannot be so casual in believing we are doing so.

You have a problem with me treating people equally, which sounds weird, but I'm open-minded. I'm willing to hear you out. How do you suggest I start treating people unequally based on their skin color?

 

[BCP1928]

Solidarity among marginalized groups crosses socio-economic lines. The issue actually isn't economic or ideological, because there is a wide variety of economic and ideological diversity among these groups but the common experience of being marginalized creates a stronger bond than the ideological differences and allows for social pressures to overwhelm other considerations. Supposed color-blindness and other faux egalitarian sentiments don't deal with the reality of people's experiences.

No doubt there is truth in that, but just remember that, aside from the hard core right, Republicans have only a very tenuous hold on the rest of the working class who voted for them. When the Republics get through with us I believe that we will be primed for a radicalization that transcends race and ethnicity.

 

[BPPLEE]

I do deny that, and your question is more or less a distraction.


Their parents? Hm...so, other black people? And of course it's more than just an informed choice. The question is why there seems to be such a strong group dynamic. And its not just a matter of voting for democrats, because that's just one element of the social and cultural dynamics.

Every group has a since of solidarity with people of their own race, it’s because we are more supportive of “our team “. If there is such a strong bond among black people why are they killing each other in such large numbers?

 

[Fervent]

Every group has a since of solidarity with people of their own race, it’s because we are more supportive of “our team “. If there is such a strong bond among black people why are they killing each other in such large numbers?

Oh, so then there isn't a "treat people as people" ideal happening in reality? Thanks for accepting what I stated from the beginning. The ideal dismisses the reality, and allows for structural issues to prevail.

 

[BPPLEE]

Oh, so then there isn't a "treat people as people" ideal happening in reality? Thanks for accepting what I stated from the beginning. The ideal dismisses the reality, and allows for structural issues to prevail.

You didn't answer the question and just attempted to deflect.

 

[Fervent]

You didn't answer the question and just attempted to deflect.

No deflection, though I didn't answer the question because it's a distraction and a move of the goalposts. Your response is as good as a concession to my original statements, so why would I try to prove a stronger claim rather than just pointing out the central point had been conceded?

 

[BPPLEE]

No deflection, though I didn't answer the question because it's a distraction and a move of the goalposts. Your response is as good as a concession to my original statements, so why would I try to prove a stronger claim rather than just pointing out the central point had been conceded?

My response is in no way a concession. If it was I wouldn't have asked the question.

 

[Fervent]

My response is in no way a concession.

So "every group has a solidarity with people of their own race" is somehow equivalent to "treating people as people"? Which is it, racial solidarity or colorblindness and individual treatment?

 

[BPPLEE]

So "every group has a solidarity with people of their own race" is somehow equivalent to "treating people as people"? Which is it, racial solidarity or colorblindness and individual treatment?

You have me confused with someone who said something about treating people as people, I didn't say that, however I like the idea and it's not mutually exclusive from what I stated as you are trying to infer.

 

[Fervent]

You have me confused with someone who said something about treating people as people, I didn't say that, however I like the idea and it's not mutually exclusive from what I stated as you are trying to infer.

You decided to interject into a discussion by responding to my response to that person. The issue isn't that it's not a noble goal, but that it is often dismissive of very real struggles that are ongoing. If the goal is truly to arrive at a point that we treat people as individuals, we must first recognize that we don't do so naturally and must examine our prejudices and how implicit biases create systemic issues for marginalized groups.

 

[Nithavela]

They lost everything, they’re devastated. Be very scared for 2028.

What happened to "Everything will be fine"?

 

[RileyG]

What happened to "Everything will be fine"?

Being concerned for our future does not mean everything won’t be fine.

We still have to prepare.

Even if Harris won, I would still state, everything will be fine.

 

[Nithavela]

Being concerned for our future does not mean everything won’t be fine.

We still have to prepare.

Even if Harris won, I would still state, everything will be fine.

So... be scared, but don't worry?

 

[BPPLEE]

You decided to interject into a discussion by responding to my response to that person. The issue isn't that it's not a noble goal, but that it is often dismissive of very real struggles that are ongoing. If the goal is truly to arrive at a point that we treat people as individuals, we must first recognize that we don't do so naturally and must examine our prejudices and how implicit biases create systemic issues for marginalized groups.

Now you are not treating me as an individual. While there is truth in your statement, you don't know me or know what comes naturally to me after having spent all my life around people of color.
I treat everyone the same. That's why my employees from my last job still text me everyday and I go back to Selma regularly and have lunch with them.
You're lumping me in a group without considering me as an individual.