My Lunar Challenge

[Cabal]

Heck, we can't even get you to admit you are a Homo sapiens!

Common factor - faulty definitions....and I wonder whose fault that is

 

[loveiseverywhere]

Why?

Show me evidence that a pink unicorn does not live under Split Rock's bed.

 

[ReverendDG]

Show me evidence that the moon was created ex nihilo.

I will take your word on it if you say that none exists.

thats not a moon.. its a space-station!

 

[gaara4158]

A mannequin of an old man can be created in one day. The mannequin is brand new, but represents an old man; and from a distance, would appear old; and is as durable as a brand-new mannequin.

In contrast, an old man can be created ex nihilo; and although he is "brand new", he is old and feeble, and cannot endure what a younger man can.

Appearance of age is one thing --- old is another.

To "embed" age on a mannequin, you wouldn't make it appear as an old man. You'd create it with the normal signs of age seen on mannequins; scratches, dents, holes, chips, cracks.
To "embed" age on a man, you'd similarly create him with signs of age seen on people; wrinkles, brittle bones, loose skin, liver spots, white hair.

Wear and tear =/= age.
Age cannot exist without time, since age simply describes how much time something has been in existence. Something cannot be 7 years old without having spent 7 years in existence. To say that the earth is billions of years old, but has only existed for 6000 years, is a contradiction in terms. There is no way around it, no matter how you word it.

The "embedded age" you propose is actually embedded wear-and-tear, and that's Omphalos. It's very simple socratic logic, and you refuse to accept it. And that is where your travesty of an argument fails. I don't know why you keep insisting on it when it gets obliterated time and time again.

inb4 one line of text quoted, followed by a pathetic quip and loosely relevant Bible verse.

 

[AV1611VET]

To "embed" age on a man, you'd similarly create him with signs of age seen on people; wrinkles, brittle bones, loose skin, liver spots, white hair.

It's interesting you chose these characteristics, and not the more noticeable ones; such as height and the ability to walk and talk.

Add to this the fact that he was married, told to have children, and even given employment, and I would say your examples pale by comparison.

Can you show me one person on the face of this earth that got married the day he was born, then told to go to work?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

It's interesting you chose these characteristics, and not the more noticeable ones; such as height and the ability to walk and talk.

Add to this the fact that he was married, told to have children, and even given employment, and I would say your examples pale by comparison.

Can you show me one person on the face of this earth that got married the day he was born, then told to go to work?

Nice strawman. You must first prove that Adam and Eve were literal people, and that they were in fact created as young adults.

Have a go at it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nice strawman. You must first prove that Adam and Eve were literal people, and that they were in fact created as young adults.

Have a go at it.

No, thanks.

I figure I've done my part when I can get someone to stoop to this.

If it was Adam that you doubted in the first place, what does it matter how he was created?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You call asking for any type of observation or evidence as stooping? lol

I figure I've done my part when I can get someone to admit that they can't.

Adam can take a hike.

 

[AV1611VET]

You call asking for any type of observation or evidence as stooping? lol

No, I call it 'stooping' when I can get someone to use his last trump card: getting him to admit he doesn't think it is real [or literal] in the first place.

 

[gaara4158]

It's interesting you chose these characteristics, and not the more noticeable ones; such as height and the ability to walk and talk.

Add to this the fact that he was married, told to have children, and even given employment, and I would say your examples pale by comparison.

Can you show me one person on the face of this earth that got married the day he was born, then told to go to work?

I could just as easily have named those characteristics. They are no more age-requiring than the ones I did name. They'd simply require more work on the creator's part, but they are not logically impossible without the passing of time. You can create a man with any trait. ANY trait. He can be a basketball star known to everyone the day he is created. He can remember a life of 20 years. But if he has not been around for 20 years, then he cannot be 20 years old.

Appearance of age/traits obtained with age =/= age.

 

[AV1611VET]

But if he has not been around for 20 years, then he cannot be 20 years old.

Appearance of age/traits obtained with age =/= age.

I disagree --- we should learn to defer to God's expertise.

The Bible supports embedded-age creation:

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

--- and that settles it --- (for me, anyway).

 

[Alunyel]

I disagree --- we should learn to defer to God's expertise.

The Bible supports embedded-age creation:--- and that settles it --- (for me, anyway).

Yeah, some of us aren't quite that gullible, though.

 

[gaara4158]

I disagree --- we should learn to defer to God's expertise.

The Bible supports embedded-age creation:--- and that settles it --- (for me, anyway).

But don't you see? It's a contradiction in terms. Age refers to how long something as been in existence. If an object has existed for 3 years, then it can ONLY be 3 years old. Its components may be older or younger, but the object cannot have existed for a time different than its age.

I don't know how else to put it. It's not a law that only God can break, it's the law of non-contradiction. It doesn't compute any other way.

I fail to see in that Bible verse where God embeds age into anything. At best, I see Omphalos.

I guess I should consider my work done here anyway, since I've gotten you to stoop to the abandonment of logic and the spewing of Bible verses.

Why do you even argue with us if you're just going to throw out a Bible verse in the end and say "well this settles it for me."?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, some of us aren't quite that gullible, though.

You guys have a level of gullibility all your own, though.

You'll believe anything that has more evidence for it, than against it --- like Pluto.

 

[gaara4158]

You guys have a level of gullibility all your own, though.

You'll believe anything that has more evidence for it, than against it --- like Pluto.

maybe you're from pluto, AV it just seems like we're in totally different worlds if you consider this an insult.
At best it's an oversimplification mixed with a blind jab in the dark. I can't believe you still bring up Pluto. Phenomenal.

 

[AV1611VET]

But don't you see? It's a contradiction in terms.

It's a 'paradox'.

Age refers to how long something as been in existence.

Without even looking --- I can tell you it is definition #4.

And did you get that?

#4

That means that there are three other definitions --- not just the one that you are using here.

Why do you even argue with us if you're just going to throw out a Bible verse in the end and say "well this settles it for me."?

I could simplify it even more, if I have to.

I could use the only phrase that I think you guys truly understand: GOD DID IT.

 

[AV1611VET]

maybe you're from pluto, AV it just seems like we're in totally different worlds if you consider this an insult.

Believe me --- I did not consider that an insult.

I don't need to stoop to insulting people.

 

[gaara4158]

It's a 'paradox'.

How is it remotely possible to be 20 years old but to only have existed for 1 year?

Without even looking --- I can tell you it is definition #4.

And did you get that?

#4

That means that there are three other definitions --- not just the one that you are using here.

These refer only to human life. Age, by definition number 4, wouldn't even need to be embedded. You could just create a man with the proper wrinkles, memories, and social relationships. Normally these things are acquired with time, but they could be created ex-nihilo, in theory. This is known as Omphalos; creating the world with a history that didn't actually take place in reality. This is logically possible.

Why won't you just admit that you're Omphalos? DO IT. We'll actually respect you and take you a little more seriously. Heck, do it for your own self-respect. Be honest with yourself.

Maybe you just don't understand the law of non-contradiction...?

 

[gaara4158]

Believe me --- I did not consider that an insult.

I don't need to stoop to insulting people.

And with that --- AV bails again.

 

[AV1611VET]

How is it remotely possible to be 20 years old but to only have existed for 1 year?

It takes Someone omnipotent to pull it off.

This is known as Omphalos; creating the world with a history that didn't actually take place in reality. This is logically possible.

I define Embedded Age as: maturity without history.

I know you guys really want me to stick history in there somewhere, but it's not going to happen.