My latest chart - the 1260days, the 42 months, the 1335 days, the 1290 days, the 3 1/2 days

[Douggg]

 

[keras]

Dougg, your chart above is in error in many ways.

The extra 30 and 75 days both come after Jesus has Returned. Proved by how they fit with the Mo'eds; the Feast days.
Tabernacles, is the one when Jesus Returns, [The Hebrew word for it literally means; God with us.]
Day 1260 since the Temple was desecrated by the 'beast' sitting in the Holy of Holies. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

There is no special Day 30 days later, but I see it as the period of gathering and the separation, then Judgment of the nations. Matthew 25:31-33
Day 1290 since the Temple was desecrated.

Then; exactly 75 days after Jesus Returns, comes Hanukkiah, the Temple cleansed and re-dedicated.
Day 1335 since the Temple was desecrated.

The two Witnesses are in Jerusalem concurrently with the control of Jerusalem and the world, by the Anti-Christ. The Great Trib happens in that final 1260 days, as well. Revelation 11:3
It will be when Jesus Returns and gathers His people to Him; 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:31, that the two Witnesses will stand up and go up to Jesus.
They come to life again, the same as all the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

 

[Douggg]

Dougg, your chart above is in error in many ways.

The extra 30 and 75 days both come after Jesus has Returned. Proved by how they fit with the Mo'eds; the Feast days.
Tabernacles, is the one when Jesus Returns, [The Hebrew word for it literally means; God with us.]
Day 1260 since the Temple was desecrated by the 'beast' sitting in the Holy of Holies. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

There is no special Day 30 days later, but I see it as the period of gathering and the separation, then Judgment of the nations. Matthew 25:31-33
Day 1290 since the Temple was desecrated.

Then; exactly 75 days after Jesus Returns, comes Hanukkiah, the Temple cleansed and re-dedicated.
Day 1335 since the Temple was desecrated.

The two Witnesses are in Jerusalem concurrently with the control of Jerusalem and the world, by the Anti-Christ. The Great Trib happens in that final 1260 days, as well. Revelation 11:3
It will be when Jesus Returns and gathers His people to Him; 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:31, that the two Witnesses will stand up and go up to Jesus.
They come to life again, the same as all the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

Hanukkah is not one of the events Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:29-30.

The two events are...

1. the Sign of the Son of man in heaven.
2. the peoples of the earth seeing the Son of man coming with power and great glory.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The 1290 days are to the Sign of the Son of man in heaven event.

The 1335 days are to the Son of man coming with power and great glory event.

Hanukkah is not even an end times specific event. It is a holiday to commemorate the historic re-dedication of the second temple.

 

[Douggg]

The extra 30 and 75 days both come after Jesus has Returned. Proved by how they fit with the Mo'eds; the Feast days.

I think why you are calling the 30 days and the 75 days as "extra" is because the 1290 days and 1335 days exceed the 1260 days by that much. Am I understanding you, correctly?

I am saying that the 30 days and the 75 days are not "extra" to anything, but instead fit within the seven years - AND led to the two events Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:30.

i.e. the Sign of the Son of man in heaven. And Jesus return down to earth with power and great glory.

 

[keras]

The 1290 days are to the Sign of the Son of man in heaven event.

The 1335 days are to the Son of man coming with power and great glory event.

Both of those events are at the 1260 days from when the AoD happens.

Hanukkah is not even an end times specific event. It is a holiday to commemorate the historic re-dedication of the second temple.

Yes: Hanukkah was made an annual celebration when the second Temple was re-dedicated after A4E desecrated it. In 164 BC.
The new Temple will be desecrated by the 'beast'; Rev 13, 2 Thess 2:4, and 1335 days later, it will be re-dedicated on the exact same day as before. That is the 25th day of Kislev.

I think why you are calling the 30 days and the 75 days as "extra" is because the 1290 days and 1335 days exceed the 1260 days by that much. Am I understanding you, correctly?

Yes. That is how they fit according to scripture and to logic.

I am saying that the 30 days and the 75 days are not "extra" to anything, but instead fit within the seven years

I believe you are mistaken, as I have proved.

AND led to the two events Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:30.

The sign of the Son of Man and the Return are the same day.
Proved by 2 Thessalonians 4:16

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I have a question that isn't on the chart but I'm curious to know the answer. Does the 7th trumpet come before the 7 bowls of wrath or after?

Note: I like your chart because it does a good job of communicating your view. I'm not 100% in agreement yet, because I'm still studying Revelation, but I do so much love your graphical methods!

I'm curious about the timing of the 2 witnesses. I thought that happens later than on day 1 of tribulation. Can you explain your thinking on the timing of the 2 witnesses, so I can understand?

 

[Hammster]

Which futurist should I believe, and why?

 

[Douggg]

I have a question that isn't on the chart but I'm curious to know the answer. Does the 7th trumpet come before the 7 bowls of wrath or after?

The 7th trumpet sounds before the 7 bowls of wrath.

I'm curious about the timing of the 2 witnesses. I thought that happens later than on day 1 of tribulation. Can you explain your thinking on the timing of the 2 witnesses, so I can understand?

The beginning of the 7 years takes place by a big ceremonial event which the Antichrist is anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet and he has the law read to the nation of Israel - all from the temple mount.

Having the law read to the nation of Israel is a forever requirement (as long as Israel is in the land) made by Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 by all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year basis. It is a way of confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant that God gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs, forever.

One of the requirements that Moses set was the reading of the law to the nation of Israel has to be from the place of God's choosing. Which the Jews currently hold to be the temple mount.

Of course, it hasn't been done in recent memory because of the muslim presence on the temple mount, which the muslims contest Israel's right to the land.

All of that will change post Gog/Magog with the removal of Islam's presence from the temple mount. Which will also pave the way for the Jews to restart animal sacrifices there.

In Revelation 11, John was told to measure the temple and them worshiping within. Which is not to actual number them worshiping within, but implies that there will be preparation of the animal sacrifices for the burnt altar.

So all the activity to begin the 7 year 70th week will focus taking place on the temple mount - which is where the Antichrist will be when the 7 years begin and the two witnesses being there to warn the nation that the Antichrist is not the true messiah and not to trust him. They will probably be viewed and protested by the press as two extreme protestors who will gain a lot of attention.

In order to total the 7 years, by knowing that the 42 month (which is half of 7 years) rule of the beast in Revelation 13 ends with Jesus's return - we know that there is an equal amount of time prior to his unhampered rule. Which is another reason for the 1260 days of the two witnesses as beginning when the person as the Antichrist initiates the 7 years.

On my chart the 1260 days of the two witnesses end with their deaths - and the 42 months of the beast begin. The 3 1/2 days on the chart is the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem at the start of the 42 months of the beast who had just killed them - causing the saying in Revelation 13:4 of "who is able to make war with him?"

After the 3 1/2 days, the two witnesses are brought back to life and called up to heaven. Ending their time here on earth during the 7 years. Which afterward the 7th angel sounds, and God begins the final events of taking this world out from under Satan's power and kingdom - beginning by casting Satan and his angels down to earth - which the wrath of God will poured out in the vials of wrath during that time (the time, times, half time).

At the end of the 7 years, the focus will be on the temple mount, like it begins, with Satan there incarnating the living image, and the beast, and the false prophet. And huge crowd of Jewish hostages, and armies, and kings of the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Which futurist should I believe, and why?

The one who is able to put the events on charts which properly integrate the events in relation to each other graphically instead of just words - which the events are two complicated to mentally map out to others in that fashion (i.e. dialogue) alone.

btw, you shouldn't be trying to stir up bickering. I am hoping we all can stay away from that.

Do you have an actual question or comment regarding the chart ?

 

[Douggg]

The sign of the Son of Man and the Return are the same day.
Proved by 2 Thessalonians 4:16

Keras, you made a typo - no existing verse. Could you please correct that to what you actually meant?

 

[Hammster]

The one who is able to put the events on charts which properly integrate the events in relation to each other graphically instead of just words - which the events are two complicated to mentally map out to others in that fashion (i.e. dialogue) alone.

btw, you shouldn't be trying to stir up bickering.

Do you have an actual question or comment regarding the chart ?

I’m not trying to stir up bickering. That was already happening. I’m just trying to figure out if these things are so obvious, why is there such a wide spectrum of beliefs among futurists?

But specifically, when does day one start? Could it be 5000 years from now?

 

[Douggg]

I’m not trying to stir up bickering. That was already happening. I’m just trying to figure out if these things are so obvious, why is there such a wide spectrum of beliefs among futurists?

Because it is an imperfect world full of imperfect people. And also no-one knows everything. Only God.

But specifically, when does day one start? Could it be 5000 years from now?

Well, if you get the forum rules changed, I could respond with a specific bible based explaining answer. But the short answer to the 5000 years into the future - the answer is no.

Event wise, the 7 years begin following the Gog/Magog event. Those 7 years in Ezekiel 39:8-10.

 

[Hammster]

Well, if you get the forum rules changed, I could respond with a specific bible based explaining answer. But the short answer to the 5000 years into the future - the answer is no.

Let’s pretend you are a chart maker in the year 300 AD. Is there enough info in scripture to create a similar chart as yours, and what info would they have to place the timeline nearly 2000 years into the future?

 

[Douggg]

Let’s pretend you are a chart maker in the year 300 AD. Is there enough info in scripture to create a similar chart as yours, and what info would they have to place the timeline nearly 2000 years into the future?

The biblical information is there to produce an identical chart back then.

But they would have no-way of knowing how long into the future that Israel would be back in the land, and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, for the chart events to take place, imo.

Which is probably, imo, why there are to my knowledge, no such charts historically speaking. I guess the 7th day adventists may have tried back in the 1800's but they had to ritualized some things to make up for the reality that Israel was not back in the land and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews.

Clarence Larkin, born 1850, is also well known for producing a lot of charts.

 

[Hammster]

The biblical information is there to produce an identical chart back then.

But they would have no-way of knowing how long into the future that Israel would be back in the land, and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, for the chart events to take place, imo.

Which is probably, imo, why there are to my knowledge, no such charts historically speaking. I guess the 7th day adventists may have tried back in the 1800's but they had to ritualized some things to make up for the reality that Israel was not back in the land and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews.

Clarence Larkin, born 1850, is also well known for producing a lot of charts.

Could those time frames align with anything that happened in the first century?

 

[grafted branch]

The biblical information is there to produce an identical chart back then.

But they would have no-way of knowing how long into the future that Israel would be back in the land, and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, for the chart events to take place, imo.

Which is probably, imo, why there are to my knowledge, no such charts historically speaking. I guess the 7th day adventists may have tried back in the 1800's but they had to ritualized some things to make up for the reality that Israel was not back in the land and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews.

Clarence Larkin, born 1850, is also well known for producing a lot of charts.

Jesus didn’t know the day or hour so apparently at that time a chart couldn’t be made. If a chart could be made in 300 AD what changed that made it possible to create a chart? Was it that the New Testament was not yet written?

 

[Douggg]

Jesus didn’t know the day or hour so apparently at that time a chart couldn’t be made. If a chart could be made in 300 AD what changed that made it possible to create a chart? Was it that the New Testament was not yet written?

My chart has no calendar dates on it. And I don't what the calendar dates are that the events will take place, even if the forum rules allowed it.

The chart is basically the 1260 days the first half and the 42 months the second half of the seven years. Nothing radical there.

The 1290 days and 1335 days are to the appearance of the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven and Jesus's coming in power and great glory, respectfully. Both of those monumental events are in Matthew 24:30. Again nothing radical.

The two blocks - the 75 days and the 45 days are what have to be determined from other biblical information apart from Daniel 12:11-12 and Matthew 24:30.

There is nothing radical about that chart derived from insider information. It is quite simple when compared to charts like from Clarence Larkin for example.

calendar dates? I don't know dates to put on any chart.

_______________________________________

What probably sets my chart apart is that I show the 3 1/2 days of the two witnesses bodies laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem as being part of (coinciding with) the 42 months of the beast's rule.

Which mathematically puts the 1260 days and the 42 months (1260 days) a contiguous period of time to get the 2520 days - with no gap.

As far as chart type, I guess it should be called a "horizontal bar chart".

 

[grafted branch]

My chart has no calendar dates on it. And I don't what the calendar dates are that the events will take place, even if the forum rules allowed it.

The chart is basically the 1260 days the first half and the 42 months the second half of the seven years. Nothing radical there.

The 1290 days and 1335 days are to the appearance of the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven and Jesus's coming in power and great glory, respectfully. Both of those monumental events are in Matthew 24:30. Again nothing radical.

The two blocks - the 75 days and the 45 days are what have to be determined from other biblical information apart from Daniel 12:11-12 and Matthew 24:30.

There is nothing radical about that chart derived from insider information. It is quite simple when compared to charts like from Clarence Larkin for example.

calendar dates? I don't know dates to put on any chart.

_______________________________________

What probably sets my chart apart is that I show the 3 1/2 days of the two witnesses bodies laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem as being part of (coinciding with) the 42 months of the beast's rule.

Which mathematically puts the 1260 days and the 42 months (1260 days) a contiguous period of time to get the 2520 days - with no gap.

As far as chart type, I guess it should be called a "horizontal bar chart".

So how is it that Jesus couldn’t know the day or hour? Is it because the exact date of day 1 on your chart can’t be known?


If so, then if a person can identify the date of day 1 on your chart, they can know the precise day of Christ’s return.

It looks like your chart has the two witnesses starting on day 1, so for sure the two witnesses themselves will know the precise day of Christ’s return.

Do you think the two witnesses will be giving that date as part of their witness? It seems to me that the two witnesses would be banned from this forum.

 

[RandyPNW]

View attachment 316110

I've been doing this a long time. My view does not have to be accepted--just understood. Conviction comes by God, and not by me.

Dan 7=3.5 years of Antichristian rule.
Dan 12.7= 3.5 years of Antichristian rule.
Rev 13=3.5 years of Antichristian rule.

Dan 8, 11, and 12.11=1290 days of Antiochus' rule.
The 1335 days are the extended period after Antiochus' death that it took for news of his death to reach Israel.
The 2300 evenings and mornings is the time beginning with the temple corruption in Antiochus' time to the end of this corruption (the corruption in the priesthood began before Antiochus' reign of terror).

The 3.5 times, 42 months, and 1260 days of Revelation=3.5 years of Antichristian rule.

Armageddon takes place after a large mobilization of forces to Armageddon after the 1260 days of Antichristian ends, and his rule begins to be challenged by others.

 

[Douggg]

So how is it that Jesus couldn’t know the day or hour? Is it because the exact date of day 1 on your chart can’t be known?


If so, then if a person can identify the date of day 1 on your chart, they can know the precise day of Christ’s return.

It looks like your chart has the two witnesses starting on day 1, so for sure the two witnesses themselves will know the precise day of Christ’s return.

Do you think the two witnesses will be giving that date as part of their witness? It seems to me that the two witnesses would be banned from this forum.

There is a factor involved called the 19 year metonic cycle which is a Jewish way of making up for a solar year being 365 1/4 days. The metonic cycle does the resync process by adding a 30 day leap month every so many years.

So not knowing what year day 1 will fall on that 19 year metonic cycle - precludes knowing the day of Jesus's return ahead of the start of the seven years. I suppose someone like the two witnesses at the beginning of day 1 could determine the day that Jesus will return at that point. Will they speak about it in exact terms - no one knows.

I think though when the abomination of desolation is placed on the temple mount courtyard - a person could start counting down the 1335 days to the day Jesus's returns.

Regarding Jesus not know the day nor hour, I think the intent of his statement was for the benefit of them listening. He was emphasizing that it would be by the Father's command and not his own independent action. Jesus is God, who created everything, and knows everything, including exactly when He will return.