My Kidney Challenge II

[Hammster]

Oh, so if the life of one person is at stake, then the bodily autonomy of the other person can be ignored, is that it?

Then let's strap you down, force you to donate blood, a kidney, a lung, some liver...

After all, to you, that's an inconvenience. To the other person, it's life or death!

I would hope that you’d understand that child sacrifice is considered barbaric by a lot of folks. That’s what you are proposing.

 

[AV1611VET]

And if someone said to me, "Kylie, you need to use a part of your body to keep this person alive, and we don't care if you don't want to do it. We're gonna FORCE you to do it because the law says we can," you would support me if I said I didn't want to do it? You would support changing the laws so they CAN'T force me anymore?

Yes, I would support you if you didn't want to do it.

And yes, I would be in favor of hanging the laws so they can't force you anymore.

 

[AV1611VET]

No laws force you to become pregnant.

Is that what this thread is really about?

 

[AV1611VET]

What about laws that force me to REMAIN pregnant?

Horray for those laws!

 

[AV1611VET]

If a woman finds that she is pregnant, then she should not be forced to remain pregnant any longer than she desires. To say that she must remain pregnant for any period of time after she desires to not be pregnant is to rob her of her bodily autonomy.

Once you become pregnant, you're eating for two.

 

[Kylie]

I would hope that you’d understand that child sacrifice is considered barbaric by a lot of folks. That’s what you are proposing.

So if it's a child dying by abortion, then it's a crime and I should be charged.

If it's a child dying because I refuse to be an organ donor, then I'm well within my rights and while many people will think I'm wrong, they won't say I need to be punished by the law.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, so if the life of one person is at stake, then the bodily autonomy of the other person can be ignored, is that it?

Why is the life of that person at stake? who's threatening that person's life?

 

[Kylie]

Yes, I would support you if you didn't want to do it.

And yes, I would be in favor of hanging the laws so they can't force you anymore.

I'm surprised. I never thought you'd be pro-choice.

 

[AV1611VET]

So if it's a child dying by abortion, then it's a crime and I should be charged.

And executed.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm surprised. I never thought you'd be pro-choice.

I never thought you'd compare a child to a kidney.

 

[Kylie]

Why is the life of that person at stake? who's threatening that person's life?

"The life of a person is at stake" means that the issue is about whether the person lives or dies.

 

[Kylie]

I never thought you'd compare a child to a kidney.

Correction - I'm comparing a uterus to a kidney.

 

[Hammster]

So if it's a child dying by abortion, then it's a crime and I should be charged.

If it's a child dying because I refuse to be an organ donor, then I'm well within my rights and while many people will think I'm wrong, they won't say I need to be punished by the law.

Correct. Only one of them is murder.

 

[Kylie]

Correct. Only one of them is murder.

How so? In both cases I refuse to allow a part of my body to be used to preserve the life of another. Why is one a murder but the other isn't?

 

[Hammster]

How so? In both cases I refuse to allow a part of my body to be used to preserve the life of another. Why is one a murder but the other isn't?

Because one is killing another person. If you can’t understand the difference between killing someone and someone dying, then I’m at a loss as how to proceed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Correction - I'm comparing a uterus to a kidney.

There's a difference between a kid and a kidney.

 

[o_mlly]

Or any other tissue. Do we not have bodily autonomy?

Bodily autonomy is limited to one's own body.

The parallel you are attempting to draw between a kidney transplant procedure and the direct abortion of a child fails. Change the challenge from "my kidney" to "another's heart" and then think it through.

 

[Kylie]

Because one is killing another person. If you can’t understand the difference between killing someone and someone dying, then I’m at a loss as how to proceed.

In both cases I am refusing to let a part of my body be used to keep another person alive.

 

[Kylie]

There's a difference between a kid and a kidney.

Good thing I'm not comparing them then, isn't it?

 

[Kylie]

Bodily autonomy is limited to one's own body.

The parallel you are attempting to draw between a kidney transplant procedure and the direct abortion of a child fails. Change the challenge from "my kidney" to "another's heart" and then think it through.

Yes, and I'm talking about MY uterus, which (if I'm not mistaken) is part of MY body.

Your suggested adjustment would have me asking if I can force another person to give up their heart to save another. And to that I say now, because (I'm sure we can both agree) I do not have the right to tell another person what they must do with their body. It doesn't matter if someone will die if they refuse. That person MUST have the right to decide what happens with their own body.

And that's the same right that would allow a woman to say that she doesn't want to use her uterus to keep someone else alive.