My Kidney Challenge II

[Astrid]

What, exactly, is the nonsense?

The claim that it's a begging the question fallacy? I clearly explained how it was.

The fact that a clump of cells is not a person? Please show me the scientific evidence that a fertilized egg is a person.

The qb and the notion that the "clump" could be
anything other than human.
The devopment from egg to birth and of course beyond
has been rather extensively studied.
Where are you finding room for reasonable doubt?

 

[Kylie]

The qb

QB? What does that mean?

and the notion that the "clump" could be
anything other than human.
The devopment from egg to birth and of course beyond
has been rather extensively studied.
Where are you finding room for reasonable doubt?

I never said it wasn't Human tissue. Of course it's Human tissue.

I said it isn't a person.

An acorn is a fertilized oak seed, but it isn't an oak tree. A zygote is a fertilized human egg, but it isn't a person.

 

[Astrid]

QB? What does that mean?

I never said it wasn't Human tissue. Of course it's Human tissue.

I said it isn't a person.

An acorn is a fertilized oak seed, but it isn't an oak tree. A zygote is a fertilized human egg, but it isn't a person.

QB is question begging.
I guess our topic is just semantics and equivocation
so might as well drop it.
I don't actually want to argue with you, doesn't feel right.

 

[IceJad]

I find abortion to be fine through the first trimester. The idea that a single cell at conception is a "person" I find to be risible.

Usually people won't discover a pregnancy until they are more than a few cells in development. But I understand the meaning. Early development of an embryo can hardly be medically called a person. It hasn't reached the fetal stage. Reasonable stand to take.

But abortion is never really about biological facts but rather moral stances of society on said biological facts. What I consider the start of a life compared to you will differ drastically. I view it as life as soon as a person comes into knowledge of the pregnancy. The stages of the development are merely biological realities. To you it might be the second or third trimester where the organs are well developed.

As the pregnancy progresses I become less and less OK with the idea of abortion but it is still a difficult topic. I do believe that everyone has bodily autonomy but you have to weigh that against the life of a developing human.

Abortion is always a difficult topic to unravel. There is no binary solution to it. Neither would I want to have a yes or no answer for it. Life is full of nuance and no two situations are identical. Abortion is like a tool amoral. Who and how it is used is the limitations to the tool.

I am a strong advocate for changing the conditions that women choose abortion rather then banning it outright. Abortion is strongly correlated with certain economic and healthcare factors that I feel everyone would benefit from improving.

I'm not in support of a total ban either. I would however not give the unrestricted choice to women alone. There must be proper conditions to request for one. What I came to learn from keeping up on American events is that there are advocates that wanted late term abortion even to the point of near birth. All in the name of bodily autonomy. I find it morbidly wrong.

But that is just me.

 

[Astrid]

Usually people won't discover a pregnancy until they are more than a few cells in development. But I understand the meaning. Early development of an embryo can hardly be medically called a person. It hasn't reached the fetal stage. Reasonable stand to take.

But abortion is never really about biological facts but rather moral stances of society on said biological facts. What I consider the start of a life compared to you will differ drastically. I view it as life as soon as a person comes into knowledge of the pregnancy. The stages of the development are merely biological realities. To you it might be the second or third trimester where the organs are well developed.



Abortion is always a difficult topic to unravel. There is no binary solution to it. Neither would I want to have a yes or no answer for it. Life is full of nuance and no two situations are identical. Abortion is like a tool amoral. Who and how it is used is the limitations to the tool.



I'm not in support of a total ban either. I would however not give the unrestricted choice to women alone. There must be proper conditions to request for one. What I came to learn from keeping up on American events is that there are advocates that wanted late term abortion even to the point of near birth. All in the name of bodily autonomy. I find it morbidly wrong.

But that is just me.

What does just you say a "person" is?

 

[Belk]

Usually people won't discover a pregnancy until they are more than a few cells in development. But I understand the meaning. Early development of an embryo can hardly be medically called a person. It hasn't reached the fetal stage. Reasonable stand to take.

But abortion is never really about biological facts but rather moral stances of society on said biological facts. What I consider the start of a life compared to you will differ drastically. I view it as life as soon as a person comes into knowledge of the pregnancy. The stages of the development are merely biological realities. To you it might be the second or third trimester where the organs are well developed.

I try to avoid the term "Life" in the debate. It to often ends up in a semantic argument. But I agree with everything you stated.

Abortion is always a difficult topic to unravel. There is no binary solution to it. Neither would I want to have a yes or no answer for it. Life is full of nuance and no two situations are identical. Abortion is like a tool amoral. Who and how it is used is the limitations to the tool.



I'm not in support of a total ban either. I would however not give the unrestricted choice to women alone. There must be proper conditions to request for one. What I came to learn from keeping up on American events is that there are advocates that wanted late term abortion even to the point of near birth. All in the name of bodily autonomy. I find it morbidly wrong.

But that is just me.

My understanding of late term abortions is that they generally are only used when there is a serious complication with the pregnancy. Used in this fashion I'm OK with it. I agree that this is not something we should allow unrestricted.

 

[IceJad]

What does just you say a "person" is?

To me a person is a human and all the inherent traits that come with being a human. More than just the physical. My perception of what a person is encompasses the conception, to awareness, actions in life and even after death the personhood of that individual remains.

Physical & metaphysical. Earthly & spiritual. Body & soul.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is a little girl, named Sally. She needs a kidney transplant or she will die. You are the only compatible donor available.

Should you be forced you to give up one of your kidneys to save her life?

Why or why not?

No.

They are mine.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What about laws that force me to REMAIN pregnant?

What if Sally needs a kidney because you poisoned her by accident?

You didn't mean to destroy the kidneys of a child when you improperly disposed of your solar panels....but it happened.

Now Sally needs your kidney....

Yes or No?

 

[FredVB]

Sexual behavior and sexual activity is reproductive, it is how babies are produced for future generations. If there was no need to this or any other species for babies from reproduction, there would not be sexual behavior and sexual activity in the species.

 

[Astrid]

Sexual behavior and sexual activity is reproductive, it is how babies are produced for future generations. If there was no need to this or any other species for babies from reproduction, there would not be sexual behavior and sexual activity in the species.

Gracious! Who knew?