My Kidney Challenge II

[Kylie]

Sure, parental instincts and feelings lead to preferential protection of your child, generally.

How is it related to the abortion problem?

It's a digression, yes. I was exploring where your claim would lead.

 

[Kylie]

My child was given to me by God. He or she is my responsibility. He or she is my legacy to carry on the work of the kingdom. So there’s no hesitation for me to choose my child.

So I'm sure you'd understand completely if I ran past your child to save mine, and left yours to die?

 

[trophy33]

I was exploring where your claim would lead.

You are posting very extreme and very unclear (regarding context and specifics) scenarios in which no rational response from behind a computer has a relevance.

Humans have emotions and under stress and pressure they must decide quickly, without a time to philosophically rationalize their actions (if not trained for such situations). The quick part of thinking must put all known data together and come with a "good enough" solution for the moment.

"My child", "my wife", "my mother", "my brother", "my pet" or "my nation", "my town", "my friend" are so strong feelings/bonds that if not obviously unjust, most people will prefer them.

 

[Hammster]

So I'm sure you'd understand completely if I ran past your child to save mine, and left yours to die[.]

Of course.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you think being an organ donor is socialism,

Nice try.

 

[o_mlly]

But if they choose to undergo it of their own free will, then there's no problem.

Sure, nothing wrong with fixing a diseased kidney by replacing it with another one ceteris paribus. Normally, nothing wrong in excising any diseased tissue.

 

[Kylie]

Nice try.

It would seem to be a simple question, AV. Just a yes or no.

 

[Kylie]

Sure, nothing wrong with fixing a diseased kidney by replacing it with another one ceteris paribus. Normally, nothing wrong in excising any diseased tissue.

Or any other tissue. Do we not have bodily autonomy?

 

[AV1611VET]

It would seem to be a simple question, AV. Just a yes or no.

Nice try.

First you ask about being FORCED to give up a kidney -- as if I would be a criminal if I didn't.

Then, after I reply, and give my reason, you switch gears from FORCED to DONOR.

What gives here?

Am I being forced to give up one of my kidneys, or am I donating one of my kidneys?

 

[Kylie]

Nice try.

First you ask about being FORCED to give up a kidney -- as if I would be a criminal if I didn't.

Then, after I reply, and give my reason, you switch gears from FORCED to DONOR.

What gives here?

Am I being forced to give up one of my kidneys, or am I donating one of my kidneys?

So would it be fair to say that you disagree with having your body parts FORCED to aid another person, but you have no problem with voluntarily donating a body part?

 

[AV1611VET]

So would it be fair to say that you disagree with having your body parts FORCED to aid another person, but you have no problem with voluntarily donating a body part?

Correct.

It's a matter of socialism vs free will.

 

[Kylie]

Correct.

It's a matter of socialism vs free will.

So you are against any law that would require a person to give up the use of a part of their body for the benefit of another?

 

[AV1611VET]

So you are against any law that would require a person to give up the use of a part of their body for the benefit of another?

Absolutely.

 

[Kylie]

Absolutely.

And if someone said to me, "Kylie, you need to use a part of your body to keep this person alive, and we don't care if you don't want to do it. We're gonna FORCE you to do it because the law says we can," you would support me if I said I didn't want to do it? You would support changing the laws so they CAN'T force me anymore?

 

[trophy33]

And if someone said to me, "Kylie, you need to use a part of your body to keep this person alive, and we don't care if you don't want to do it. We're gonna FORCE you to do it because the law says we can," you would support me if I said I didn't want to do it? You would support changing the laws so they CAN'T force me anymore?

No laws force you to become pregnant.

 

[Kylie]

No laws force you to become pregnant.

What about laws that force me to REMAIN pregnant?

 

[Hammster]

What about laws that force me to REMAIN pregnant?

I’ve never met a woman who remained pregnant.

 

[Kylie]

I’ve never met a woman who remained pregnant.

Such immature word games are not becoming.

In any case, when I first became pregnant, I remained so for about nine months.

If a woman finds that she is pregnant, then she should not be forced to remain pregnant any longer than she desires. To say that she must remain pregnant for any period of time after she desires to not be pregnant is to rob her of her bodily autonomy.

 

[Hammster]

Such immature word games are not becoming.

In any case, when I first became pregnant, I remained so for about nine months.

If a woman finds that she is pregnant, then she should not be forced to remain pregnant any longer than she desires. To say that she must remain pregnant for any period of time after she desires to not be pregnant is to rob her of her bodily autonomy.

What about the baby’s bodily autonomy? (We aren’t talking about kidneys anymore, so I find your word games comment amusing)

 

[Kylie]

What about the baby’s bodily autonomy? (We aren’t talking about kidneys anymore, so I find your word games comment amusing)

Oh, so if the life of one person is at stake, then the bodily autonomy of the other person can be ignored, is that it?

Then let's strap you down, force you to donate blood, a kidney, a lung, some liver...

After all, to you, that's an inconvenience. To the other person, it's life or death!