My Human Being Challenge

[Jimmy D]

Stop babelling then.

 

[quatona]

Do human beings consist of anything other than mass and energy? if so, what?

And I don't want vague answers like "sapience" or "intelligence" or "life"; I want concrete answers consisting of substances that all scientists say exist.

If there is a third substance that all scientists recognize that separates a human being from a rock or a lead pencil or a toothbrush, what is it?

Can you answer in one word, or two words tops?

Since - in your terminology - matter and energy qualify as "substances" (while in fact these are general terms and pretty vague, by your own standards), could you give me some other things that you feel qualify as "substances", so that I get an idea what you are asking for and what would count as a possible answer regarding your concept of "substances"?
Maybe something like "faith/hope/love"?

 

[miknik5]

No. It's because "mass" is a very general term. In order to properly distinguish between an rock and a human one would have to describe the mass of each - the molecules that make them up, how these molecules are organized, etc.

Also, mass and energy are not independent.

One can't understand the difference without describing the mass?

Human being
Rock


The difference between the two is already and immediately known

One would never confuse an animate oblject with an inanimate object

 

[lesliedellow]

65% oxygen (believe it or not).

 

[EpiscipalMe]

One can't understand the difference without describing the mass?

Human being
Rock


The difference between the two is already and immediately known

One would never confuse an animate oblject with an inanimate object

That's not what AV asked nor the stipulation he put in place.

 

[miknik5]

Your question makes no sense.

Is that because science doesn't recognize anything outside of mass and energy?

No. It's because "mass" is a very general term. In order to properly distinguish between an rock and a human one would have to describe the mass of each - the molecules that make them up, how these molecules are organized, etc.

Also, mass and energy are not independent.

That's not what AV asked nor the stipulation he put in place.

That's what you brought up and that is what I responded to

 

[miknik5]

A human being if they are inert/inanimate/inactive is still a human being independent of
its own ....energy

What is this "internal energy" that makes a human being able to move?

 

[EpiscipalMe]

That's what you brought up and that is what I responded to

The question asked was if all things are made up of mass and energy, what distinguishes people from rocks (without discussing presence of a soul). Answer - how that mass is assembled. You are taking the "its self-evident" approach but AV asked for more details.

First, less assume that by "mass" he means "matter." As mentioned before, mass and energy are not independent. Besides Eistein's theories, on a more practice level, energy is stored in the chemical bonds of matter and is used to change how those bonds are formed and released.

If you go to the subatomic level, people and rocks are composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Therefore, how that matter is assembled is all that distinguishes people from rocks (again, AV stipulated that discussion if a soul is not allowed).

On an atomic level, people are composed largely of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen with other elements thrown in. These elements are assembled in very specific ways to form larger molecules (proteins, fats, carbohydrates, nucleic acids, etc). Rocks are made of other elements.

So yes, in order to answer AV's question within the stipulations provided, one must reduce the differences to how matter is assembled.

A human being if they are inert/inanimate/inactive is still a human being independent of
its own ....energy

What is this "internal energy" that makes a human being able to move?

AV specifically said we couldn't talk about spirit/soul/etc if that is what you are getting at.

 

[miknik5]

The question asked was if all things are made up of mass and energy, what distinguishes people from rocks (without discussing presence of a soul). Answer - how that mass is assembled. You are taking the "its self-evident" approach but AV asked for more details.

First, less assume that by "mass" he means "matter." As mentioned before, mass and energy are not independent. Besides Eistein's theories, on a more practice level, energy is stored in the chemical bonds of matter and is used to change how those bonds are formed and released.

If you go to the subatomic level, people and rocks are composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Therefore, how that matter is assembled is all that distinguishes people from rocks (again, AV stipulated that discussion if a soul is not allowed).

On an atomic level, people are composed largely of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen with other elements thrown in. These elements are assembled in very specific ways to form larger molecules (proteins, fats, carbohydrates, nucleic acids, etc). Rocks are made of other elements.

So yes, in order to answer AV's question within the stipulations provided, one must reduce the differences to how matter is assembled.



AV specifically said we couldn't talk about spirit/soul/etc if that is what you are getting at.

Is AVs term "intelligence" supposed to equate with a soul or spirit of a human being?

Isn't intelligence relative?
Wouldn't it require the animate object to do something to obtain intelligence?

 

[miknik5]

Spirit and soul are not relative

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Is AVs term "intelligence" supposed to equate with a soul or spirit of s human being?

Why don't you ask him?

But, yes, I interpreted that the question in this way. He specifically asked what a scientist would say. Also, I brought up soul in an earlier post.

 

[miknik5]

Since - in your terminology - matter and energy qualify as "substances" (while in fact these are general terms and pretty vague, by your own standards), could you give me some other things that you feel qualify as "substances", so that I get an idea what you are asking for and what would count as a possible answer regarding your concept of "substances"?
Maybe something like "faith/hope/love"?

Human beings in relation to other "matter/substances"

 

[miknik5]

Why don't you ask him?

But, yes, I interpreted that the question in this way. He specifically asked what a scientist would say. Also, I brought up soul in an earlier post.

You're the one who spoke for him
I'm not having a hard time understanding at all

 

[miknik5]

And I don't remember him specifically asking what a scientist would say

 

[miknik5]

What is this internal static(unrelative) energy that distinguishes a human being from other things

 

[miknik5]

James 2 has the answer
And so did YehushuaJeff

Try doing something without the inclination/drive/motive of your heart and your mind

That's all human beings natural spirit within them

 

[miknik5]

Do human beings consist of anything other than mass and energy? if so, what?

And I don't want vague answers like "sapience" or "intelligence" or "life"; I want concrete answers consisting of substances that all scientists say exist.

If there is a third substance that all scientists recognize that separates a human being from a rock or a lead pencil or a toothbrush, what is it?

Can you answer in one word, or two words tops?

A human being consists of body, soul and spirit .

The body is the visible manifestation of the invisible spirit before the eyes of men

The soul is the invisible manifestation (before men that is) of the invisible spirit before the eyes of GOD

 

[miknik5]

The body without the spirit is dead

Flesh if it is not made animate by the spirit is just that:
A mass of lifeless flesh

And the spirit which is invisible in and of itself can not be made visible/manifest without a visible body

 

[miknik5]

I'm sorry for all the information

 

[quatona]

Human beings in relation to other "matter/substances"

Not sure how this is supposed to answer my question.