My Gravolution Challenge

[dlamberth]

Others see a terrible rip in God's pristine creation, brought on by sin.

AV, your the only person I've ever come across that says that. I don't think there's a lot of "others" out there who see it the way you do.

 

[Bradskii]

I'm reading it for the 13th time now (I'm at the end of Exodus). Why?

If you're comparing God's chosen ones to hostages, give it up.

In the Stockholm syndrome, you're taken hostage first, then mistreated, then forge a relationship with your kidnapper.

So this God has control over everyone. Then he takes everyone except your family out and drowns them all. He tells you 'you're special'. You then ignore what He's just done (total genocide) and form a special relationship with Him.

Sounds like a classic Stockholm Syndrome to me.

And when does evolution actually stop? You forgot to give me the answer to that.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, your the only person I've ever come across that says that. I don't think there's a lot of "others" out there who see it the way you do.

QV please:

Grand Canyon is not a memorial to the beauty of God’s creation, but a memorial to the judgment of the Flood” and “a somber reminder that God judges sin.

SOURCE

And although I don't believe the Grand Canyon was created by the Flood, you can clearly see that I'm not the only one who thinks it is a ruination of God's pristine creation due to sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds like a classic Stockholm Syndrome to me.

Then I submit you don't know Noah like I know him.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Are you suggesting Noah walked with God because he was God's hostage?

And when does evolution actually stop?

Beats me.

For an individual, evolution stops when he dies or becomes sterile and doesn't have children anymore.

For a whole species, evolution stops when the species goes sterile or extinct.

For the whole earth, evolution just may continue into the New Heaven and New Earth, since we'll be eating fruit (and maybe even fish).

I don't know.

 

[dlamberth]

And although I don't believe the Grand Canyon was created by the Flood, you can clearly see that I'm not the only one who thinks it is a ruination of God's pristine creation due to sin.

I'm not at all doubting the Creationist idea that the Grand Canyon was created by the Flood. It's your own particular take that I'm looking at. I've not heard it from anyone else but you. Which is why I'm wondering who those "others" are.

 

[Bradskii]

Beats me.
I don't know.

We knew that. But we're here to help.

Forget about naming something 'a species'. Evolution has no idea how we differentiate one creature from another. But all things evolve (unless, as you said, they go extinct). But you've claimed that it actually stops at some point even with creatures that don't go extinct. Now just saying it don't make it so. I think for anyone to take you seriously, you need to say that 'evolution stops at a certain point...and this is why'.

So off you go. Tell us why it stops.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not at all doubting the Creationist idea that the Grand Canyon was created by the Flood. It's your own particular take that I'm looking at. I've not heard it from anyone else but you. Which is why I'm wondering who those "others" are.

Well, now you've heard it from Professor Randy Moore:

Degrees earned

B.S., 1975, Texas A & M University, College Station, Texas, Major: Biology
M.S., 1977, University of Georgia, Athens, Georgia, Major: Botany, Thesis: The relationship of nitrogen metabolism to photosynthesis in Digitaria sanguinalis (L.) Scop.
Ph.D., 1980, University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA), Field: Plant Development, Dissertation: Studies of vegetative compatibility-incompatibility in higher plants

Awards and honors

Presidential Scholarship, from the Electron Microscopy Society of America, 1978
Invited Post-Graduate Student, 9th International Congress on Electron Microscopy, 1978
Chancellor's Special Commendation as a Teaching Assistant, UCLA, 1979
Outstanding Teaching Assistant, UCLA, 1980
Presidential Scholarship, from the Electron Microscopy Society of America, 1980
Model Teacher, “Mastery of Teaching” film series, 1982, distributed by Instructional Dynamics, Inc., Pacific Palisades, California
Presidential Award, Scanning Electron Microscopy, 1982
Elected Fellow, Texas Academy of Science, 1984
Recipient of the Excellence in Educational Journalism Award of the Education Press Association of America, 1986, 1991, 1992
Most Outstanding Professor, Baylor University, 1986
Recipient of the Excellence in Educational Journalism Award of the Washington Press Association, 1986
Mortar Board “Circle of Achievement” Award as Outstanding Professor at Baylor University, 1986
Honorary Member, Texas Society for Electron Microscopy, 1987
Fulbright Scholar, Thailand, 1987
Kendall Teacher Exemplar Award, presented by the Society for College Science Teachers (the college/university branch of the National Science Teachers Association) to “the most outstanding undergraduate science teacher of the year,” 1993
Omicron Delta Kappa, 1996
Most Outstanding Faculty Member, Wright State University, 1992
Outstanding Scientist Award, presented by the Affiliate Societies Council, 1993
Outstanding Administrator Award, presented by the Southeast Section of the National Association of Academic Affairs Administrators, 1998
Honorary Member, National Association of Biology Teachers, 2005. This is the Association’s highest honor.
Horace T. Morse-University of Minnesota Alumni Award for Outstanding Contributions to Undergraduate Education, 2006.
Friend of Darwin Award, National Center for Science Education, 2006
CASE/Carnegie Minnesota Professor of the Year, 2006
Most Outstanding Biology Research/Teaching Award, National Association of Biology Teachers, 2006
Inductee, Academy of Distinguished Teachers, University of Minnesota, 2006
Inductee, Distinguished Alumni Hall of Fame, Columbus School System, Columbus, TX, 2007
Evolution Education Award, National Association of Biology Teachers, AIBS, & BSCS, 2008
Most Dogmatic Indoctrinator in an Evolutionary Biology Course, The Discovery Institute, 2008

SOURCE

 

[AV1611VET]

So off you go. Tell us why it stops.

Do you have me mixed up with someone else?

What's with the when-does-evolution-stop questions?

According to atheistic science, it is due to stop "soon" by deep time standards.

According to theology, it will go on and on forever on the New Earth.

 

[Bradskii]

Do you have me mixed up with someone else?

Bit late to ask that when you've already answered the question and said that you don't know.

This was you: "Not a new genus = macroevolution."

So you don't believe that evolution will result in a new genus. That means you think it must stop at some point, and therefore has stopped in almost all cases. So back to you...

Tell us why it stops.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you don't believe that evolution will result in a new genus.

It never has, and it never will.

Tell us why it stops.

It never started in the first place.

 

[Bradskii]

It never has, and it never will.It never started in the first place.

Then why on earth are you suggesting that something will stop if you don't think it ever started? That's completely nonsensical. Notwithstanding that you've already confirmed that you accept that micro evolution will result in a new species. So it's a process you have already accepted.

The whole point of your thread is to suggest that it goes no further. Not that it doesn't exist.

I guess it's easy to tie oneself in knots trying to debate a subject you show every indication of not understanding.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then why on earth are you suggesting that something will stop if you don't think it ever started? That's completely nonsensical. Notwithstanding that you've already confirmed that you accept that micro evolution will result in a new species. So it's a process you have already accepted.

The whole point of your thread is to suggest that it goes no further. Not that it doesn't exist.

I guess it's easy to tie oneself in knots trying to debate a subject you show every indication of not understanding.

Are we done now?

 

[Bradskii]

Are we done now?

No, we're not. You've said that evolution proceeds until we have a different species (we'll ignore the last post when you said it didn't happen at all). But then it stops at that point. It won't proceed to develop a new genus.

Tell us why it stops.

 

[d taylor]

Is there time in God's true Creation?

The big clock is moving above our heads keeping perfect time and looks like it will be that way on the new earth too.

 

[VirOptimus]

The big clock is moving above our heads keeping perfect time and looks like it will be that way on the new earth too.

Word salad.

 

[d taylor]

Word salad.

All past time : by five lines of astronomical time : authenticated by the British Chronological and ... | National Library of Australia

 

[Oneiric1975]

It never has, and it never will.

I'm always fascinated by ex cathedra statements like that. It's truly amazing to me that someone can claim that something never happened. I could easily see if you said "I don't believe it has ever happened", but no, you go further with all the forcefulness of knowledge of all things and say it never happened and it never will.

May I ask how you come to know such truth so perfectly? Could you be mistaken? Or do you speak on behalf of God almighty?

 

[AV1611VET]

May I ask how you come to know such truth so perfectly?

You should know it too.

Show me one species that gave birth to a new genus.

 

[Oneiric1975]

You should know it too.

Show me one species that gave birth to a new genus.

I don't believe that is how it works.

But I'm not a biologist (I do, however, sense that you aren't even a scientist of any sort, so I'm still interested in why you are so certain of your claim.)

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't believe that is how it works.

Looks like we're on the same page then.

But I'm not a biologist (I do, however, sense that you aren't even a scientist of any sort, so I'm still interested in why you are so certain of your claim.)

I'd venture to say I'm just as certain to my claim as you are to my claim.

We're both certain.