My Gravolution Challenge

[Halbhh]

Zero gravity is like centrifugal force. Imaginary. If you're inside a space station going around in orbit, you're being pulled by Earth's gravity. It's just that both you and the space station are falling toward the Earth at the same acceleration.

Hope your having a good day. Here's a fun quick article for some interest to some:
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-nasa-spacecraft-year-home-asteroid.html

I misread this as the Graviola challenge.
How much graviola one can digest before it starts destroying your brain cells.

I'm glad you caught that, Gene.

"Macrogravity" is not an acceptable word in the scientific realm; neither is "microevolution."

What prompted this challenge was the remark:

"If you accept gravity as a fact you should by the same standards accept evolution as a fact."

Well ... I accept evolution as a fact, but only to a point. I draw the line at [the unacceptable term] macroevolution.

I'd like to know:

1. Why microevolution is acceptable, while macroevolution is not.
2. If you want me to stop using "macroevolution," are you willing to stop using "microgravity"?

 

[AV1611VET]

Microgravity: gravity on the human-scale. Rocks falling, water flowing downhill, car keys stay put on the table, car keys never found bumping against the ceiling. Acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 plus or minus a little.

QV please:

Microgravity is the condition in which people or objects appear to be weightless. The effects of microgravity can be seen when astronauts and objects float in space.

SOURCE

 

[AV1611VET]

Then you accept ”macroevolution”.

No, I sure don't.

Do you accept macrogravity?

 

[driewerf]

He was unable to drop a rock from 250,000 miles high in the sky, but the natural experiment of the moon allowed him to test and confirm his hypothesis in a location inaccessible to him.

 

[VirOptimus]

No, I sure don't.

Do you accept macrogravity?

Thats not a thing.

But if you accept that all species evolve then you also accept that they will eventually give rise to new species as that is an unavoidable consequence of always evolving.

 

[d taylor]

In God's true creation neither are needed gravity or evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thats not a thing.

But if you accept that all species evolve then you also accept that they will eventually give rise to new species as that is an unavoidable consequence of always evolving.

That is correct.

New species = microevolution.

Not a new genus = macroevolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

In God's true creation neither are needed gravity or evolution.

That's true.

I've asked evolutionists to explain how angels came to be, apart from evolution; and the ONLY thing they can do is deny or question their existence.

Theistic evolutionists however, can explain it by basically saying EVOLUTION TOOK A HIKE when God created them ex nihilo.

In reality, they were created ex nihilo before the earth ever came into existence.

 

[Oneiric1975]

When does microevolution stop?

Whenever it becomes inconvenient for Creationists.

Microevolution allows Creationists to enjoy the benefits of medicine and biology without fully committing and sullying their pristine souls.

 

[AV1611VET]

Whenever it becomes inconvenient for Creationists.

Microevolution allows Creationists to enjoy the benefits of medicine and biology without fully committing and sullying their pristine souls.

As I told someone earlier, you don't have to believe that thing you're looking at under your microscope came from something that lived back in deep time.

My ophthalmologist is a YEC.

 

[Oneiric1975]

As I told someone earlier, you don't have to believe that thing you're looking at under your microscope came from something that lived back in deep time.

My ophthalmologist is a YEC.

It is possible to be a technician without fully appreciating the details. Your ophthamologist probably knows a lot about the development of the eye as it is shown in the animal kingdom and even in the fossil record. If he chooses to ignore how the eye develops he can still work on eyes just fine.

I don't have to know how metals are smelted to know how to fix a car engine.

If your ophthamologist was, however, a geologist looking for petroleum it is highly unlikely that he'd be as successful as a YEC. (Most YEC who attempt to do geology end up bungling it pretty badly).

 

[AV1611VET]

If your ophthamologist was, however, a geologist looking for petroleum it is highly unlikely that he'd be as successful as a YEC.

Thumper truck won't start?

 

[Oneiric1975]

Thumper truck won't start?

That would be the least of a YEC's problems in geology. No doubt some have gone into geology but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense without "deep time".

 

[AV1611VET]

No doubt some have gone into geology but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense without "deep time".

I'm going to disagree.

But I'm going to disagree on principle, not experience.

 

[Oneiric1975]

I'm going to disagree.

But I'm going to disagree on principle, not experience.

I would think experience counted more than principle.

Geology actually becomes a pitiful joke when you rob it of "deep time", IMHO. It is amazing to me to drive around and see the might of what time and geologic forces can create.

I understand there are people for whom "young earth" is the only way to ensure their immortal soul goes to heaven and to think otherwise risks an eternity of torment and that's sad to me.

The really cool thing about geology is we can see things recorded in the rocks that we see happening today so we know some of the rates things happen at. So when you see something in the rocks that you know takes years and decades to create and you see it repeated hundreds and hundreds of times over and over and you get a glimpse into how amazing this planet actually is. As opposed to a potemkin village.

I also realize that for the sufficiently skilled person of faith there is probably a million ways to spin it such that time isnt' time or God just snapped his fingers and made time without adding time, etc. All of those seem more acts of desperation and fear of damnation rather than appreciating the real beauty of the earth.

Again, I'm not taking a swipe at those people who think that the wrong belief about time will cause someone to be damned to eternal torment. I just think it's sad. It really robs the cosmos of beauty.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I would think experience counted more than principle.

Geology actually becomes a pitiful joke when you rob it of "deep time", IMHO. It is amazing to me to drive around and see the might of what time and geologic forces can create.

I understand there are people for whom "young earth" is the only way to ensure their immortal soul goes to heaven and to think otherwise risks an eternity of torment and that's sad to me.

The really cool thing about geology is we can see things recorded in the rocks that we see happening today so we know some of the rates things happen at. So when you see something in the rocks that you know takes years and decades to create and you see it repeated hundreds and hundreds of times over and over and you get a glimpse into how amazing this planet actually is. As opposed to a potemkin village.

I also realize that for the sufficiently skilled person of faith there is probably a million ways to spin it such that time isnt' time or God just snapped his fingers and made time without adding time, etc. All of those seem more acts of desperation and fear of damnation rather than appreciating the real beauty of the earth.

Again, I'm not taking a swipe at those people who think that the wrong belief about time will cause someone to be damned to eternal torment. I just think it's sad. It really robs the cosmos of beauty.

God created Adam and Eve as adults/with the appearance of age. Why not the Earth? Or something like that...

Personally, if God did create the Earth with all the signs of being a particular age, He shouldn't punish people for believing this deception. And we can go beyond geology. So God created a star so many million light years away and sort of rushed the light to us to give us the impression that enough time has passed for light to reach us? If the universe and the Earth are really young, God is either very tricksy and is planting traps for us to fall into so we can be punished for believing the wrong thing, OR God is not going to judge people for coming to logical conclusions about the apparent old age of the Earth. If God is real, I'd prefer it be the latter.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, I'm not taking a swipe at those people who think that the wrong belief about time will cause someone to be damned to eternal torment. I just think it's sad. It really robs the cosmos of beauty.

Some people, when they look at the Grand Canyon, see a beautiful geological phenomenon.

Others see a terrible rip in God's pristine creation, brought on by sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

Personally, if God did create the Earth with all the signs of being a particular age, He shouldn't punish people for believing this deception.

People don't go to Hell for believing the Earth grew old over time, but believing that can keep some from being able to worship God at their fullest potential.

Some beliefs allow people to attain mountainous heights of glory.

Other beliefs can only allow a person to soar only so high and no higher.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Others see a terrible rip in God's pristine creation, brought on by sin.

That's really sad.

 

[Oneiric1975]

God created Adam and Eve as adults/with the appearance of age. Why not the Earth? Or something like that...

Personally, if God did create the Earth with all the signs of being a particular age, He shouldn't punish people for believing this deception. And we can go beyond geology. So God created a star so many million light years away and sort of rushed the light to us to give us the impression that enough time has passed for light to reach us? If the universe and the Earth are really young, God is either very tricksy and is planting traps for us to fall into so we can be punished for believing the wrong thing, OR God is not going to judge people for coming to logical conclusions about the apparent old age of the Earth. If God is real, I'd prefer it be the latter.

Hear, hear! Agreed.