My Gospel by Paul

[Guojing]

What Does It Mean to Believe in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society
Option 1: belief in Jesus saves, whether you believe that belief in Jesus saves or not. Of course, in this view it is hard to decide what “belief in Jesus” is. Most who hold this view define believing in Jesus as believing that He is God and that He died on the cross for our sins and rose bodily from the dead are saved. If one believes those things, he has everlasting life whether he believes he does or not. So in this view Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Calvinists, Arminians, Lordship Salvation advocates, and works salvation advocates are all born again. In this view most people who call themselves Christians are eternally secure, though they do not believe that they are.

Some say that all who’ve had a personal encounter with Jesus are saved. They define faith in Jesus as a personal encounter with Him.

I know one man who told me that all who believe that Jesus was sent from God are born again. For him believing in Jesus is believing that He (or he) was sent from God.

How do you get "faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life" from this paragraph?

 

[d taylor]

How do you get "faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life" from this paragraph?

Because something a person does is not the actual person.

If i paint a painting that painting is not me, the painting is something i did. So having faith that i painted a painting would not save if God had stated to be saved a person must have faith in me.

So God states it is faith/belief in Jesus that gives Eternal Life and not faith in the things Jesus has done.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[Guojing]

Because something a person does is not the actual person.

If i paint a painting that painting is not me, the painting is something i did. So having faith that i painted a painting would not save if God had stated to be saved a person must have faith in me.

So God states it is faith/belief in Jesus that gives Eternal Life and not faith in the things Jesus has done.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

I understand that is your point.

I am asking whether GES says the same thing as what you are saying.

 

[d taylor]

I understand that is your point.

I am asking whether GES says the same thing as what you are saying.

Clarity in Evangelism for Baptists – Grace Evangelical Society

Second, we need to make clear what Jesus gives and what we must do to get it. This is key. Lots of people know the facts of Jesus’ life, but they believe in Him for all the wrong things. They believe in Him for health, or for a promotion, or for a husband. Worst of all, some people believe in Jesus for the right reason—to save them from eternal condemnation—but they misunderstand what is required. They think He will save them if their works are good enough.

We need to recognize that just because someone believes the facts about Jesus’ life doesn’t mean they know or believe Jesus’ promise. So we need to make two things clear: 1) that the sole condition is believing in Jesus, and 2) what they need to believe in Jesus for. We need to make clear that Jesus promises to give everlasting life to all who simply believe in Him for that (John 3:16, 36; 5:24). That’s the core issue. That’s the free gift He wants to give people. Lots of people believe some correct facts about Jesus, but don’t know about the gift, and hence they do not believe in Him for everlasting life. So make clear what He offers up front.

 

[Guojing]

Clarity in Evangelism for Baptists – Grace Evangelical Society

Worst of all, some people believe in Jesus for the right reason—to save them from eternal condemnation—but they misunderstand what is required. They think He will save them if their works are good enough.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not saying our works save us.

It is the work of Christ on the cross that saves us, and because we put our faith in the sufficiency of "that work of obedience done by the final Adam", we are declared justified and righteous (Romans 5:12-19).

So no one is saying we are saved if our works are good enough.

 

[Strong in Him]

The gospel of the kingdom is only for Jews, that is correct. (Matthew 10:5-8)

Our gospel is from the apostle Paul.

There is only ONE Gospel.
No one can enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born again, John 3:3. Being born of the Spirit gives new life. Paul says that when anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
John said that those who accept Jesus can become children of God, John 1:12. Paul says that the Spirit assures us that we are children of God, Romans 8:16-17.
Jesus said that his blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28. Paul said that we have redemption through Jesus's blood and forgiveness of sin, Ephesians 1:7.
Jesus taught about the kingdom of God. Paul said that the kingdom of God was about righteousness, peace and joy, Romans 14:17, of power, 1 Corinthians 4:20 and urged people to live lives worthy of the kingdom, into which they had been called, 1 Thessalonians 2:12. He taught that certain people would not enter, or receive, the kingdom.
Jesus and Paul both spoke of the kingdom of God. And the way to enter that kingdom - a place where God is king - is through re-birth by his Spirit.

You don't build an ark just because Genesis 6:14, God commanded Moses to build one, would you agree?

No - he commanded Noah to build one.

I said, in my 1st post on this thread, that none of the Bible was written TO us, post#92. But it is for us and we can learn, even from bits which were written to someone else.
I agree that I wouldn't build an ark because Noah had been told to build one - neither do I refrain from pork because the Hebrew slaves were told to. But there is only ONE Gospel - Paul himself said that. Paul taught the Gospel that was revealed to him by Jesus - the Gospel, Good News, that Jesus died, rose again and ascended.

 

[Guojing]

There is only ONE Gospel.
No one can enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born again, John 3:3. Being born of the Spirit gives new life. Paul says that when anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
John said that those who accept Jesus can become children of God, John 1:12. Paul says that the Spirit assures us that we are children of God, Romans 8:16-17.
Jesus said that his blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28. Paul said that we have redemption through Jesus's blood and forgiveness of sin, Ephesians 1:7.
Jesus taught about the kingdom of God. Paul said that the kingdom of God was about righteousness, peace and joy, Romans 14:17, of power, 1 Corinthians 4:20 and urged people to live lives worthy of the kingdom, into which they had been called, 1 Thessalonians 2:12. He taught that certain people would not enter, or receive, the kingdom.
Jesus and Paul both spoke of the kingdom of God. And the way to enter that kingdom - a place where God is king - is through re-birth by his Spirit.

No - he commanded Noah to build one.

I said, in my 1st post on this thread, that none of the Bible was written TO us, post#92. But it is for us and we can learn, even from bits which were written to someone else.
I agree that I wouldn't build an ark because Noah had been told to build one - neither do I refrain from pork because the Hebrew slaves were told to. But there is only ONE Gospel - Paul himself said that. Paul taught the Gospel that was revealed to him by Jesus - the Gospel, Good News, that Jesus died, rose again and ascended.

You are a covenant theologian?

 

[lanceleo]

Or a dispensationalist.

 

[Strong in Him]

You are a covenant theologian?

Not that I know of.

Does that mean you can't answer the points that I made.

 

[d taylor]

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not saying our works save us.

It is the work of Christ on the cross that saves us, and because we put our faith in the sufficiency of "that work of obedience done by the final Adam", we are declared justified and righteous (Romans 5:12-19).

So no one is saying we are saved if our works are good enough.

1st Corinthians 15 is not addressing Eternal Life salvation at all. Paul is writing to believers who say there is no resurrection of the dead, verse 12 shows this.

Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

 

[Sorn]

Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord…..they sent Barnabas to Antioch….25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch.

Read the sermon Paul preached in the synagogue to both Jews and Gentiles on his first Sabbath day there in Acts 13 and tell me how the Jewish Gospel is different from the Gentile gospel, since Gentiles were there also?

Acts 13: 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Paul is not saying he is preach anything different to the Gentiles, they might not have complained if Paul was preaching a different message to the gentiles.

Acts 14: 1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 17: 1 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women.

Acts 17:10…On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

Acts 18: 2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla,

Acts 18: 5 Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 18: 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.

Paul would not have taught 2 gospels, just the one, the main difference between what Paul would have taught and what Perter would have taught, as I see it, is that Peter would have taught that baptism was required, as per Mark 16:16, whereas Paul was never instructed by Christ that baptism was required, 1 Cor 1:16-17.
However Paul would not have had a problem if someone wanted to be baptized, especially if they were a jew or a proselyte.

 

[bling]

Paul would not have taught 2 gospels, just the one, the main difference between what Paul would have taught and what Perter would have taught, as I see it, is that Peter would have taught that baptism was required, as per Mark 16:16, whereas Paul was never instructed by Christ that baptism was required, 1 Cor 1:16-17.
However Paul would not have had a problem if someone wanted to be baptized, especially if they were a jew or a proselyte.

I am glad you brought up the motive behind why some Christians teach: “Paul had a different Gospel than Peter and the others.” BAPTISM

Peter, Paul and all the rest would have agreed that: “water” does not save you, only Deity (God/Christ/Holy Spirit). God does not need you to “do” anything for Him to save you, but as Christians, we have the wonderful privilege and honor to add to our Spiritual salvation, a physical remembrance by physically going through a death burial and resurrection: washing away, reliance on others, rising to a new life in the arms of fellow Christians and witnessing to other what Christ went through in remembrance. Baptism is for us, because it helps us, and some of us will need that additional help, so God wants all of us to add this physical remembrance and witness.

Look at the context of 1 Cor: 16-17, 1 Cor. 1: 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Yet tell me this: If Paul did not believe in water baptism, why did he specific give exceptions as being exceptions to his baptizing of Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas?

Paul is addressing one of the many issues the Corinthian Church was have, which was division among them partly created by them being baptized by different Church leaders or disciples of those church leaders. Paul personally limited baptizing people for the same reason Christ did not baptize anyone.

Paul is not bring judgement down on being baptized, but their division and using who baptized them in dividing up.

Why would baptism not be a benefit to you?

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is only one Gospel.
There has only ever been one Gospel.
There will only ever be one Gospel.

If I were to say otherwise I would render myself apostate and deny the Son of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ladodgers6]

He is using the gospel of the kingdom there, where salvation is based on putting faith in Christ's identity as Israel's promised Messiah.

The first Adam broke the Covenant of Works made with God. By breaking this Covenant in the Garden with God, he brought sin, death, condemnation upon all mankind, placing us all under the curse of God, and being exiled from God, we were casted out into darkness.

The Second or Last Adam (Christ), made a Covenant of Grace with God, that he will redeem God's people from their sins, death and condemnation. By becoming a curse for them; killing and condemning sin in the flesh; taking our place on the Cross and receiving our just punishment. And by his perfect obedience to the Father and fulfilling the broken Covenant of Works that the first Adam breached, he frees us from the curse, judgement, and condemnation. And in him we are credited with his righteousness, given life, and justification.​

 

[Strong in Him]

The first Adam broke the Covenant of Works made with God.​

What "covenant of works"?
God told Adam he could eat from any tree in the garden except one. He disobeyed.

 

[Guojing]

The first Adam broke the Covenant of Works made with God. By breaking this Covenant in the Garden with God, he brought sin, death, condemnation upon all mankind, placing us all under the curse of God, and being exiled from God, we were casted out into darkness.

The Second or Last Adam (Christ), made a Covenant of Grace with God, that he will redeem God's people from their sins, death and condemnation. By becoming a curse for them; killing and condemning sin in the flesh; taking our place on the Cross and receiving our just punishment. And by his perfect obedience to the Father and fulfilling the broken Covenant of Works that the first Adam breached, he frees us from the curse, judgement, and condemnation. And in him we are credited with his righteousness, given life, and justification.​

Is it safe to conclude that, before Paul wrote Romans 5:12-19, Israel did not know and understand any of what you said?

 

[Guojing]

There is only one Gospel.
There has only ever been one Gospel.
There will only ever be one Gospel.

If I were to say otherwise I would render myself apostate and deny the Son of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Do you realize Paul mentioned unto you at least 3 times in that Galatians passage that you are using here?

The basic principle in Bible interpretation is context, who are the you that Paul was referring to in that letter?

 

[Guojing]

1st Corinthians 15 is not addressing Eternal Life salvation at all. Paul is writing to believers who say there is no resurrection of the dead, verse 12 shows this.

Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

What does the first 4 verses say literally?

 

[Guojing]

Not that I know of.

Does that mean you can't answer the points that I made.

Covenant theologians central belief is this "There is only ONE Gospel", which you repeated a number of times throughout this thread.

They call this the covenant of grace, and it started in Genesis 3:15.

That is also what CTs believe https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/what-covenant-grace

The essence of the covenant of grace is the same throughout the Old and New Testaments—God saves sinners by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. But its historical administration has varied by time and place. For example, the covenant of grace widened from the Old Testament to the New Testament, as it was administered first with small families (e.g., the families of Noah and Abram), then with the nation of Israel, but now with the church, which is made up of people "from every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). Also, it was administered in the Old Testament through what the New Testament authors describe as "types" and "shadows" (Heb. 8:5; 10:1), such as sacrifices, the priesthood, and the temple, all of which pointed to their reality, Jesus Christ (e.g., Col. 2:17).

 

[Guojing]

Or a dispensationalist.

True dispensationalist will not ever say

There is only one Gospel.
There has only ever been one Gospel.
There will only ever be one Gospel.