My Gospel by Paul

[ladodgers6]

Eternal Life is actually God, God is life. No one can have Eternal Life unless The Life of God resides in the person.

Born again is actually stating what happens to an unbeliever when they believe in Jesus, they are born again. They are born again because God Eternal Spirit comes and resides in them, bringing them out from death to life.

Yes, being regenerated is part of Salvation, but the good news of the proclamation of the Gospel, of what God did in Christ for his people, by redeeming them from their sins, suffering the punishment in their place for sin, living in the flesh and fulfilling the Law, and becoming a curse for them, and especially being imputed or credited with the righteousness of Christ through Faith apart from works. Believing and trusting that God in Christ did this for you, is what saves the ungodly!
​

Abraham Justified by Faith​

1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
​

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
​

Know what you believe and why you believe it.​

 

[d taylor]

Yes, being regenerated is part of Salvation, but the good news of the proclamation of the Gospel, of what God did in Christ for his people, by redeeming them from their sins, suffering the punishment in their place for sin, living in the flesh and fulfilling the Law, and becoming a curse for them, and especially being imputed or credited with the righteousness of Christ through Faith apart from works. Believing and trusting that God in Christ did this for you, is what saves the ungodly!
​

Abraham Justified by Faith​

1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
​

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
​

Know what you believe and why you believe it.​

Nope, faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in the person Jesus that gives a person Eternal Life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[Guojing]

Eternal Life is actually God, God is life. No one can have Eternal Life unless The Life of God resides in the person.

Born again is actually stating what happens to an unbeliever when they believe in Jesus, they are born again. They are born again because God Eternal Spirit comes and resides in them, bringing them out from death to life.

So can I be born again, but not have Eternal life?

 

[Guojing]

Yes but it is not obedience to The Law of Moses as it was for the Jewish rich ruler as he was under the Law at the time Jesus was addressing him.

I would say a starting law for believers now would be the Law of Christ.

The Ten Commandments in Ephesians? – Grace Evangelical Society

Are Believers Under Law Today? – Grace Evangelical Society

This reminds me of the point I made to you in another thread The sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25: The Progressive Dispensationalist view

As I said to you in another thread, John is the easiest gospel, relative to Matthew, Mark and Luke, to form the doctrine of "Belief in Jesus is sufficient to be born again and hence eternally saved".

Once you accept that doctrine as an axiom, you can thus interpret the passages found throughout the 4 gospel accounts, in a manner to fit that axiom.

I can see that you are doing the same thing here regarding what Jesus meant in that Luke passage.

Alright then, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Guojing]

Nope, faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in the person Jesus that gives a person Eternal Life.

Interesting, can you provide the GES link that says this as well?

 

[ladodgers6]

Nope, faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in the person Jesus that gives a person Eternal Life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

You half of it right. It's who the person is, and what he has done. Both! As I mentioned before it's God in Christ that saves the ungodly! The Gospel Promise has been fulfilled in the person of Christ and his merits.

 

[Strong in Him]

You replied to my point here with "He wasn't."

So if you agree with me that Matthew 15:24 was not a joke, then you have to agree with me that Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

You seem to think that either Jesus meant this, or it was a joke.

Let's try a bit of context, shall we?
Jesus healed, and taught, many people during his ministry.
Some of these were Samaritans - yes, they may have been half Jews, but they and the Jews hated, and did not associate with each other. Jesus was once prevented from going through a Samaritan village because he was on his way to Jerusalem, Luke 9:51-53. Yet he healed a Samaritan leper and revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah. He did not say to them that he had been sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
Jesus healed a Roman official's servant - without telling him that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Other people who lived in Israel were healed; we don't know their nationalities.
So why did he say this only about one foreign woman?
And why did he say "it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs", (a derogatory word for gentiles)?
I'm not certain, but it seems as though Jesus wanted to see how persistent she could be, or maybe how much faith she had.
Note that it was the disciples who were complaining about the woman's crying out (Matthew 15:23) and it was to the disciples to whom Jesus made that remark. He did not repeat it when the woman approached him, nor did he walk off with the words, "I told you I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." In spite of having made that comment, he allowed the woman to approach him, listened to, and talked with her. He then commended her for her great faith, and healed her daughter.

If Jesus had meant "I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel - no one else", why would he have granted the woman's request, healed her daughter and then commended her for her great faith? His ministry was primarily to the Jews but he did not refuse a Gentile woman (therefore doubly unclean) who was asking for mercy.

 

[Strong in Him]

Before Paul, Gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by Israel's God, that has always been the case after the nation was formed, as promised to Jacob in Genesis 28:13-15.

The counterexample was seen in Deuteronomy 23:3-4.

The Roman Centurion build Israel a synagogue, and the leaders appealed to Jesus for him (Luke 7:5). As for the Canaanite lady, she acknowledged herself as a gentile puppy who could be blessed with the overflow blessings that the children of Israel were having in Jesus's first coming to them. (Mark 7:29).

Both cases, Israel was honored, and Jesus could therefore bless them because they blessed Israel.

The difference for us now, under Paul's gospel, is that gentiles are blessed thru the fall of Israel (Romans 11:11).

i) So are you saying that God only blessed those who believed in him, were his people or who had blessed him first? That would make him a hypocrite in the light of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:46-47.
ii) If you are so ready to believe that Paul was correct in what he taught, why do you not believe him when he said that there is only ONE Gospel, Galatians 1:4-9.
iii) I have asked you if this means that none of Jesus's teachings, as recorded in the 4 Gospels, are for us - and had no answer. Neither has another forummer answered me when I asked for the differences between "Jesus' Gospel" and "Paul's Gospel".
Paul preached the ONE Gospel; revealed to him by Jesus. This same Jesus called him to take that Gospel to the Gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus healed a Roman official's servant - without telling him that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Other people who lived in Israel were healed; we don't know their nationalities.
So why did he say this only about one foreign woman?
And why did he say "it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs", (a derogatory word for gentiles)?
I'm not certain, but it seems as though Jesus wanted to see how persistent she could be, or maybe how much faith she had.
Note that it was the disciples who were complaining about the woman's crying out (Matthew 15:23) and it was to the disciples to whom Jesus made that remark. He did not repeat it when the woman approached him, nor did he walk off with the words, "I told you I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." In spite of having made that comment, he allowed the woman to approach him, listened to, and talked with her. He then commended her for her great faith, and healed her daughter.

If Jesus had meant "I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel - no one else", why would he have granted the woman's request, healed her daughter and then commended her for her great faith? His ministry was primarily to the Jews but he did not refuse a Gentile woman (therefore doubly unclean) who was asking for mercy.

I take it that you disagree with my explanation about why Jesus granted these 2 gentiles their healing request here?

The Roman Centurion build Israel a synagogue, and the leaders appealed to Jesus for him (Luke 7:5). As for the Canaanite lady, she acknowledged herself as a gentile puppy who could be blessed with the overflow blessings that the children of Israel were having in Jesus's first coming to them. (Mark 7:29).

Both cases, Israel was honored, and Jesus could therefore bless them because they blessed Israel.

There was no need for Jesus to tell the Roman centurion Matthew 15:24, because, as I stated, he has already blessed Israel (Luke 7:5).

The Canaanite lady had not, so Jesus gave her an out with the analogy about children's bread and she wisely acknowledged it (Mark 7:29)

 

[Guojing]

iii) I have asked you if this means that none of Jesus's teachings, as recorded in the 4 Gospels, are for us - and had no answer. Neither has another forummer answered me when I asked for the differences between "Jesus' Gospel" and "Paul's Gospel".

As for this point of yours, all scripture is written FOR us, but not all scripture is written to us, nor are they about us.

I hope this clarifies.

 

[Guojing]

You half of it right. It's who the person is, and what he has done. Both! As I mentioned before it's God in Christ that saves the ungodly! The Gospel Promise has been fulfilled in the person of Christ and his merits.

He is using the gospel of the kingdom there, where salvation is based on putting faith in Christ's identity as Israel's promised Messiah.

 

[Strong in Him]

As for this point of yours, all scripture is written FOR us, but not all scripture is written to us, nor are they about us.

I know.
But the OP said that the Gospel, as recorded by the 4 evangelists, was only for the Jews.
You have quoted one verse where Jesus talked about coming for the lost sheep of Israel and have said that it is hard for churches to accept this, because they preach on Jesus' words - post #141. You have also written that some of us might be trying to "make Jesus say the same Gospel that he gave to Paul" - post #138.

So it is not unreasonable to ask; are Jesus' words, recorded in the 4 Gospels, for us and relevant for us, or not?
Do you read Jesus' own words about his death, Mark 8:31-33, about him being the Good Shepherd who lays down his life for the sheep, John 10:11, about his blood shed for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28 and believe them - or do you only believe Paul when he taught the same thing?
What about the words that we should seek first the kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33 or that we should take up our cross and follow Jesus, Mark 8:34? Relevant? Or not because Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel?

 

[d taylor]

You half of it right. It's who the person is, and what he has done. Both! As I mentioned before it's God in Christ that saves the ungodly! The Gospel Promise has been fulfilled in the person of Christ and his merits.

God is not in Christ, Christ is God.

It is not what Jesus has done, what Jesus has done the miracles (healing people, walking on water, turning water to wine, being resurrected,) should show the person that Jesus is who he says He is. The resurrection and the life, the only begotten Son of God, the promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh, so the person may believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life (The Life of God).

 

[d taylor]

So can I be born again, but not have Eternal life?

No born again happens when the person is given/receives Eternal Life from God. A person is not born again until they have received God's Life.

 

[d taylor]

Interesting, can you provide the GES link that says this as well?

-​

What Do We Need to Believe about Jesus to Be Saved? – Grace Evangelical Society

What Does It Mean to Believe in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society

Believing That Jesus Is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31) – Grace Evangelical Society

Is Salvation Merely the Result of Believing in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society

How Should One Define the Phrase “Belief in Jesus”? What is Saving Faith? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[d taylor]

-​

It is amazing how such a simple way God has given mankind to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, belief in Jesus. How man has polluted and complicated this and confused so many, so much so that they simply do not understand and believe plainly stated verses.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[Guojing]

I know.
But the OP said that the Gospel, as recorded by the 4 evangelists, was only for the Jews.
You have quoted one verse where Jesus talked about coming for the lost sheep of Israel and have said that it is hard for churches to accept this, because they preach on Jesus' words - post #141. You have also written that some of us might be trying to "make Jesus say the same Gospel that he gave to Paul" - post #138.

So it is not unreasonable to ask; are Jesus' words, recorded in the 4 Gospels, for us and relevant for us, or not?
Do you read Jesus' own words about his death, Mark 8:31-33, about him being the Good Shepherd who lays down his life for the sheep, John 10:11, about his blood shed for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28 and believe them - or do you only believe Paul when he taught the same thing?
What about the words that we should seek first the kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33 or that we should take up our cross and follow Jesus, Mark 8:34? Relevant? Or not because Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel?

The gospel of the kingdom is only for Jews, that is correct. (Matthew 10:5-8)

Our gospel is from the apostle Paul.

You don't build an ark just because Genesis 6:14, God commanded Moses to build one, would you agree? It was not written TO you, nor was it about you.

But that command was written FOR your learning.

Likewise, none of us sell all our possessions and give alms, even when Jesus commanded the little flock to do so in Luke 12:33. That one, everyone agrees it was not written TO us, for obvious reasons =)

 

[Guojing]

-​

What Do We Need to Believe about Jesus to Be Saved? – Grace Evangelical Society

What Does It Mean to Believe in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society

Believing That Jesus Is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31) – Grace Evangelical Society

Is Salvation Merely the Result of Believing in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society

How Should One Define the Phrase “Belief in Jesus”? What is Saving Faith? – Grace Evangelical Society

Which of these link made the same point you did, which is

faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in the person Jesus that gives a person Eternal Life.

 

[d taylor]

(*) Yes, being regenerated is part of Salvation, but the good news of the proclamation of the Gospel, of what God did in Christ for his people, by redeeming them from their sins, suffering the punishment in their place for sin, living in the flesh and fulfilling the Law, and becoming a curse for them, and especially being imputed or credited with the righteousness of Christ through Faith apart from works. Believing and trusting that God in Christ did this for you, is what saves the ungodly!
​

Abraham Justified by Faith​

1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
​

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
​

Know what you believe and why you believe it.​

Where is what you wrote (*), found in simple verses like this.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

​

 

[d taylor]

Which of these link made the same point you did, which is

faith in something Jesus did does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in the person Jesus that gives a person Eternal Life.

What Does It Mean to Believe in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society
Option 1: belief in Jesus saves, whether you believe that belief in Jesus saves or not. Of course, in this view it is hard to decide what “belief in Jesus” is. Most who hold this view define believing in Jesus as believing that He is God and that He died on the cross for our sins and rose bodily from the dead are saved. If one believes those things, he has everlasting life whether he believes he does or not. So in this view Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Calvinists, Arminians, Lordship Salvation advocates, and works salvation advocates are all born again. In this view most people who call themselves Christians are eternally secure, though they do not believe that they are.

Some say that all who’ve had a personal encounter with Jesus are saved. They define faith in Jesus as a personal encounter with Him.

I know one man who told me that all who believe that Jesus was sent from God are born again. For him believing in Jesus is believing that He (or he) was sent from God.