My Boundary Challenge

[KWCrazy]

I suppose it isn't real science if it comes to a conclusion a YEC doesn't like.

Science doesn't deal with conclusions.

 

[KWCrazy]

What exactly is the difference between a soul and spirit?

There are many kinds of spirits. The human soul is a spirit. Not all spirits are human souls. In other words, human souls are a subset.

 

[AV1611VET]

Lacking a visible presence of God religious people tend to make the associated scriptures of their religion into a divine fetish.

Lacking a visible presence of God, what should I do?

Especially if I'm asked questions that can only be answered from His autobiography?

 

[lesliedellow]

Ummmmm.... no. I gave you the definition. What part of it did you not understand? Here it is from Wiki:
In philosophy, naturalism is the "idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world." Adherents of naturalism (i.e., naturalists) assert that natural laws are the rules that govern the structure and behavior of the natural universe, that the changing universe at every stage is a product of these laws.

If that is the definition of naturalism,

Science doesn't deal with conclusions.

It perhaps doesn't deal in certainties, but it certainly draws more or less probable conclusions.

 

[Colter]

Lacking a visible presence of God, what should I do?

Especially if I'm asked questions that can only be answered from His autobiography?

Seek guidance in prayer as Jesus did.
We don't have Gods autobiography, we have the opinions of holy men, some more holy than others. So rather than give an incorrect answer, say "I don't know."

 

[lesliedellow]

Lacking a visible presence of God, what should I do?

Especially if I'm asked questions that can only be answered from His autobiography?

The Bible isn't an autobiography, but it is meant to prevent us from manufacturing an idol according to our own liking, and then calling it God.

Things haven't changed much since Jeremiah's time.

 

[KWCrazy]

It perhaps doesn't deal in certainties, but it certainly draws more or less probable conclusions.

Probabilities yes, conclusions no.
There is no verifiable scientific proof for God. Therefore science can say that God has never been proven. It cannot, however, say that God doesn't exist. Science has no mechanism for testing the existence of a supernatural being. It can measure certain energy fields, but that's about it.

 

[lesliedellow]

Probabilities yes, conclusions no.

Except in an axiomatic system like mathomatics, conclusions are always provisional.

There is no verifiable scientific proof for God. Therefore science can say that God has never been proven. It cannot, however, say that God doesn't exist.

No scientific theory has ever been published which says God doesn't exist. Individual scientists may have their own personal opinions on the matter, just like everybody else.

 

[John 1720]

How can you tell where science ends and the Bible picks up?

I don't necessarily believe one picks up where the other one leaves off. I believe they are two parallel paths of discerning and discovering truths. I just happen to believe the spiritual pursues the eternal truths into the nature of God and His purpose of humanity. The lesser pursues physical truth about nature which God has created. Truths about the physical nature of the universe is the witness of creation to us. Creation glorifies God's in one way in that it is astounding to our senses. However spiritual truths, the actual witness of God to man, glorifies the Divinity and His love for mankind in a much deeper and more profound way. I can see the love and the wonder of God in creation, especially with respect to humanity, but I more clearly see the love of God revealed by His Word. Mankind has been given the unique ability to comprehend God in a way that is clearly deeper when compared to the rest of creation. We can comprehend and understand our purpose in God because He has endowed us with the ability to discern the things of God 1 Corinthians 2:16 . Either way 'science' or knowledge - which the Greek is transliterated as gnosis, has given mankind the innate ability to discern truth - Isaiah 1:18 . That endowment of ability given to us by God includes both physical truths and spiritual truths. God desires us to know His truths, both the truths of our earthly and universal nature as well as the truths of His Divine nature. Both are worthy of pursuit and necessary, as long as we understand the priority is to first understand spiritual truths and the nature of God's love. I think that is primary because understanding the truths of God opens up everything else. Intelligence, heavenly wisdom and earthly wisdom are all good for each gives insight into God. But God's love and redemption remains simple enough that the heart of a young child can be moved as well as indwelled by the Spirit of God. Francis Bacon as much said the same thing.
Francis Bacon - Wikipedia
Francis Bacon ushered in the modern scientific method, which ushered in a great Renaissance of scientific discovery. He is sometime called the father of modern science. However he not only encouraged us to thrive in the discovery of scientific truths but also to pursue the great truths of God. All truth is God's truth of course but spiritual truths advances us beyond the mere realm of physical experience. Of course when Bacon spoke of spiritual truths he himself was convinced of the truths found in Christ and not just any system of religion.
John 14:1

God never wrought a miracle, to convince atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. It is true, that a little philosophy inclines a man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy brings men’s minds about to religion. For while the mind of man looks upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholds the chain of them, confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity. ...
The Scripture saith, The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God; it is not said, The fool hath thought in his heart; so as he rather states it, by rote to himself, as that he would have, than that he can thoroughly believe it, or be persuaded of it. For none deny, there is a God, but those, for whom it creates the assertion that there is no God. It appears in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip, than in the heart of man, than by this; that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted in it, within themselves, and would be glad to be strengthened, by the consent of others. Nay more, you shall have atheists strive to get disciples, as it does with other religious sects. And, which is most of all, you shall have of them, that will suffer for atheism, and not recant; whereas if they did truly think, that there were no such thing as God, why should they trouble themselves? ...
They that deny God, destroy man’s nobility; for certainly man is of kin to the beasts, by his body; and, if he be not of kin to God, by his spirit, he is a base and ignoble creature. It destroys likewise magnanimity, and the raising of human nature;..
So man, when he rests and assures himself, upon divine protection and favor, gathered a force and faith, which human nature in itself could not obtain. Therefore, as atheism is in all respects hateful, so in this, that it deprives human nature of the means to exalt itself, above human frailty.

Knowledge of the physical world around us, illustrates the hand of God in the creation, which we are indeed a part of. Spiritual truths given to us in the Word and in prophecy by His inspiration is God's witness to us and focuses on the heart of God and the purpose of creation, which ultimately will culminate in Christ. I would therefore conclude both are means of discerning the truth but whereas natural science seeks to explore the effects spiritual knowledge illustrates the cause and the purpose for creation.
In Christ, Pat

 

[Radrook]

Probabilities yes, conclusions no.
There is no verifiable scientific proof for God. Therefore science can say that God has never been proven. It cannot, however, say that God doesn't exist. Science has no mechanism for testing the existence of a supernatural being. It can measure certain energy fields, but that's about it.

If indeed you see absolutely NOTHING in nature that indicates a creator-then why believe in a creator as you are claiming to believe?

 

[KWCrazy]

If indeed you see absolutely NOTHING in nature that indicates a creator-then why believe in a creator as you are claiming to believe?

EVERYTHING in nature gives testament to a Creator.

 

[Heissonear]

I don't necessarily believe one picks up where the other one leaves off. I believe they are parallel paths of discovering truths. I just happen to believe the spiritual pursues eternal truths into the nature of God where as the lesser pursues physical truth about the nature God has created. Truths about the physical nature of the universe is the witness of creation to us. Creation glorifies God's in one way in that is is astounding. However, spiritual truths, the actual witness of God to man, glorifies Himself in a much deeper and profound way. I can see the love and the wonder of God in creation, especially with respect to humanity but I more clearly see the love of God revealed by His Word. Mankind has a unique ability to comprehend God in a way that is clearly astounding compared to the rest of creation and to understand our purpose in Him by endowment. Either way 'science' or knowledge - gnosis, has given mankind the innate ability to discern truth - Isaiah 1:8 . So that endowment of ability by God includes both physical truths and spiritual truths. God desires us to know His truths, the truths of our nature and the truths of His nature, so both are worthy of pursuit and necessary as long as we understand the priority is to understand spiritual truths.
Francis Bacon - Wikipedia
Francis Bacon ushered in the modern scientific method, which ushered in a great Renaissance of scientific discovery. He is sometime called the father of modern science. However he not only encouraged us to thrive in the discovery of scientific truths but also to pursue the great truths of God. All truth is God's truth of course but spiritual truths advance beyond the mere realm of physical experience. Of course when Bacon spoke of spiritual truths he himself was convinced of the truths found in Christ and not just any system of religion. John 14:1

Knowledge of the physical world around us, illustrates the hand of God in the creation, which we are indeed a part of. Spiritual truths given to us in the Word and in prophecy by His inspiration is God's witness to us and focuses on the heart of God and the purpose of creation, which ultimately will culminate in Christ. I would therefore conclude both are means of discerning the truth but whereas natural science seeks to explore the effects spiritual knowledge illustrates the cause and the purpose for creation.
In Christ, Pat

I do appreciate your summary of the tread topic. Well done! May God continue to bless!

 

[Heissonear]

EVERYTHING in nature gives testament to a Creator.

I realize the same!

 

[Heissonear]

Seek guidance in prayer as Jesus did.
We don't have Gods autobiography, we have the opinions of holy men, some more holy than others. So rather than give an incorrect answer, say "I don't know."

It is interesting how some have "interpreted" the Bible. Look at the differences among Christiandom. Mormans, Mennonites, Church of Christ, Catholics, ..........

Falling away occurred by Bible verses, as a product of demonic and fleshly man's efforts.

Maybe you present the same. Another "lo here" of what is Truth.

One thing apparent of flesh produced sects and adherents is ungodliness and unholiness. Hate cannot be overcomed. Bitterness cannot be overcomed. Judgemental cannot be overcome.

A walk of Love can only be produced by being lead by the Spirit of God, even the walk of putting off the flesh through the Holy Spirit.

Some have errored and push doctrines, even that errant men wrote the Bible.

The Author is the Holy Spirit, using called men.

Pretty basic. But you cannot turn to the Bible without the Holy Spirit, and having Him open the verses of the Bible, opening our eyes by revelation.

One must be Born Again and walk in the leading of the Holy Spirit.

It is easy to see many have errorred in turning to men, fleshly works, and not to the Holy Spirit, and as He writes His Word on our heart. The Bible is His Word. Pretty basic once you meet Him.

Following others is a snare.

 

[Colter]

It is interesting how some have "interpreted" the Bible. Look at the differences among Christiandom. Mormans, Mennonites, Church of Christ, Catholics, ..........

Falling away occurred by Bible verses, as a product of demonic and fleshly man's efforts.

Maybe you present the same. Another "lo here" of what is Truth.

One thing apparent of flesh produced sects and adherents is ungodliness and unholiness. Hate cannot be overcomed. Bitterness cannot be overcomed. Judgemental cannot be overcome.

A walk of Love can only be produced by being lead by the Spirit of God, even the walk of putting off the flesh through the Holy Spirit.

Some have errored and push doctrines, even that errant men wrote the Bible.

The Author is the Holy Spirit, using called men.

Pretty basic. But you cannot turn to the Bible without the Holy Spirit, and having Him open the verses of the Bible, opening our eyes by revelation.

One must be Born Again and walk in the leading of the Holy Spirit.

It is easy to see many have errorred in turning to men, fleshly works, and not to the Holy Spirit, and as He writes His Word on our heart. The Bible is His Word. Pretty basic once you meet Him.

Following others is a snare.

True, the spirit of truth will lead us into all truth.

When theology masters religion, it becomes a doctrine instead of a life. God is an infinite living being, not a static formula.

The theory that Ggd chose men to write the Bible is a man made theory.

 

[Kylie]

There are many kinds of spirits. The human soul is a spirit. Not all spirits are human souls. In other words, human souls are a subset.

AV said we have both.