My Apple Challenge II

[W2L]

Its all speculation.

 

[Speedwell]

True, but Egypt wasn't without skilled farmers either. People didn't just get on welfare back then, you either grew food, worked for it, or starved. Why assume Egypt would fall over the loss of slaves? Why assume Egypt couldn't use their own people to grow food?

They probably did anyway. According to the Bible story the Hebrews were used on building projects--not something vital to the survival of the country. And even if the Bible story does have a basis in real events, there weren't likely 600,000 of them.

 

[W2L]

They probably did anyway. According to the Bible story the Hebrews were used on building projects--not something vital to the survival of the country. And even if the Bible story does have a basis in real events, there weren't likely 600,000 of them anyway.

I was going to suggest they were not used for farming, but I wasn't sure. I have no way of knowing if 600,000 is accurate, but I know its possible. You believe Jesus walked on water, calmed storms, raised the dead, but you don't believe God can free 600,000 slaves?

 

[Speedwell]

I was going to suggest they were not used for farming, but I wasn't sure. I have no way of knowing if 600,000 is accurate, but I know its possible. You believe Jesus walked on water, calmed storms, raised the dead, but you don't believe God can free 600,000 slaves?

God can do anything He wants, but that doesn't mean we need to put too much stock in OT numbers, especially when they seem implausible (for reasons already brought out in this thread). The authors of OT narratives did not always have accurate historical facticity as their primary literary objective.

 

[W2L]

God can do anything He wants, but that doesn't mean we need to put too much stock in OT numbers, especially when they seem implausible (for reasons already brought out in this thread). The authors of OT narratives did not always have accurate historical facticity as their primary objective.

Miracles are often implausible. Why is it more plausible that Jesus walked on water, and commanded storms? That's plausible but freeing 600,000 slaves isn't?

 

[Speedwell]

Miracles are often implausible. Why is it more plausible that Jesus walked on water, and commanded storms? That's plausible but freeing 600,000 slaves isn't?

It's plausible that God freed the slaves. What's not so plausible is that there were 600,000 of them.

 

[W2L]

It's plausible that God freed the slaves. What's not so plausible is that there were 600,000 of them.

Its more plausible that he can command storms, walk on water, and raise the dead? He created all things as well. He can do all that but its implausible that he can free such a multitude?

 

[Speedwell]

Its more plausible that he can command storms, walk on water, and raise the dead? He created all things as well. He can do all that but its implausible that he can free such a multitude?

No, it's implausible that there was such a multitude to be freed.

Look, it's really quite simple and I don't know why you are having trouble with this. God can do anything He wants. He can command storms, walk on water, raise the dead and free the Children of Israel from captivity in Egypt. So he did, every one, there just weren't likely anywhere near 600,000 of them. I don't know why you think that represents some kind of limit to His powers.

 

[HitchSlap]

It can be but not always.

It is in all religious contexts.

 

[HitchSlap]

Atheists assert that this life is all there is.

It's what the evidence suggests. The difference is, religions allow people to make things up, in the absence of evidence. Hume's maxim, an' all.

What evidence do we have?

None.

If I believed that I wouldn't waste time on the internet arguing about it,

Everybody's got their own reasons for being here, I suppose.

I would instead spend my time more wisely.

Since when do you get to choose what's most "wise?" Lol.

Atheists know God exists,

Projection will get you no closer to understanding, but it does help to protect your worldview.

but they are in denial,

Meh, you can't choose your beliefs.

and that's why they spend their life arguing about it.

Takes two to tango.

I happen to believe that there is inherent value of disputation and the Socratic method.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because it says so in the Bible. Right.

You said it best: 'Right'.

How do you explain the fact that there is no mention by the Egyptians that more than half a million people - who were their labour force! - just got up and left?

Have you read everything the Egyptians ever wrote?

If not, how do you explain the fact that Mo Natcha mighta et them writings?

It would be rather difficult to hide that!

I personally believe some did write it down -- but God didn't preserve it.

What was the name of Pharaoh's camel?

And yet there's no real world evidence for it whatsoever!

Mother Nature can be harsh, can't she?

 

[W2L]

No, it's implausible that there was such a multitude to be freed.

Look, it's really quite simple and I don't know why you are having trouble with this. God can do anything He wants. He can command storms, walk on water, raise the dead and free the Children of Israel from captivity in Egypt. So he did, every one, there just weren't likely anywhere near 600,000 of them. I don't know why you think that represents some kind of limit to His powers.

Its implausible only because you say it is. You are riding the fence between mans logic and Gods spirit

 

[W2L]

It's what the evidence suggests.

There is no such evidence.

 

[Speedwell]

Its implausible only because you say it is. You are riding the fence between mans logic and Gods spirit

Hardly riding the fence. I am clearly on the side of man's logic as against an account written by an author who did not necessarily regard accurate factual historicity as his primary literary objective.

 

[W2L]

Hardly riding the fence. I am clearly on the side of man's logic as against an account written by an author who did not necessarily regard accurate factual historicity as his primary literary objective.

You have no reason to suggest it was false, except weak speculation based on weak assertions. However, I don't care what you believe, so if that's your cup of tea then so be it

 

[Speedwell]

You have no reason to suggest it was false, except weak speculation based on weak assertions. However, I don't care what you believe, so if that's your cup of tea then so be it

Of course not. That there really were 600,000 of them is equally speculative. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference.

 

[HitchSlap]

There is no such evidence.

That's what I said.

 

[W2L]

That's what I said.

No, you said the evidence supports that there is no after life

 

[W2L]

Of course not. That there really were 600,000 of them is equally speculative. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference.

I just believe scripture because I have no reason not to

 

[HitchSlap]

No, you said the evidence supports that there is no after life

Correct. There is zero evidence to think that there is any kind of existence beyond death.