My Alcohol Challenge

[PsychoSarah]

Does anyone else find it strange just how much AV doesn't want it to be alcoholic?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Son of Man came drinking grape juice, which is why He was accused of being a drunkard?

Anticipated argument: "These were Jesus' adversaries trying to spread gossip about Him, He never drank wine and so the charge is false."

Response: Except that it's Jesus says, "The Son of Man came eating and drinking" The accusations of gluttony and drunkenness were to besmirch Jesus' reputation; but it does not change the fact that Jesus did feast and did drink (in contrast to St. John the Baptist who fasted and abstained).

If Jesus says He drank then that means he drank.

Of course that's only if we actually want to believe what Scripture says. Which is a problem when one is trying to make the Bible say something completely different.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[AV1611VET]

But fermented grape juice is usually called wine.

No argument there.

 

[AV1611VET]

But isnt your view that english is the language of god/angels and that the KJV is inerrant?

Correct.

And those who penned the KJV certainly held grape juice and wine as two seperate entities.

QV please:

Non-alcoholic grape juice was not available until 1869 when it was invented by Dr. Thomas Welch. (It's called Welch's Grape Juice for a reason.) Welch was a teetotaller who objected to taking communion with wine and who wanted a non-alcoholic alternative. So after experimentation he succeeded in developing what he called "unfermented wine." Even then it was called wine, not grape juice, that name coming into use when his son took over marketing in 1875.

SOURCE

 

[VirOptimus]

Correct.

QV please:


SOURCE

...

The source you point to says that the Bible does indeed mean wine and not grape juice.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Does anyone else find it strange just how much AV doesn't want it to be alcoholic?

Not really -- it's to be expected.

AV wishes to abstain from alcohol; good for him. However, he also wants to make a god in his own image -- with all his own idiosyncrasies and hang-ups.

And he writes threads like this one in order to sell his god to us.

 

[AV1611VET]

...

The source you point to says that the Bible does indeed mean wine and not grape juice.

Yup -- that's because he says grape juice already has a modicum of alcohol in it.

Kinda like the term "zero gravity," which is on its way to becoming obsolete in favor of "microgravity."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yup -- that's because he says grape juice already has a modicum of alcohol in it.

So Jesus did miraculously create alcoholic wine...

 

[AV1611VET]

So Jesus did miraculously create alcoholic wine...

That's what he says.

From the last line of his article:

If there really was a historical Jesus Christ, then the wine he drank contained alcohol.

 

[Queller]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Nothing in there says that drinking is a sin. It could conceivably be interpreted as stating that being drunk is a sin but that isn't the same thing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nothing in there says that drinking is a sin.

Is smoking a sin?

 

[Queller]

Smoking is not a sin either, is it?

No, it isn't. Where did you get the idea it was?

And it has less Biblical support than drinking.

There is something less than none?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nothing in there says that drinking is a sin. It could conceivably be interpreted as stating that being drunk is a sin but that isn't the same thing.

Indeed, taking anything to excess is a sin -- gluttony.

 

[Queller]

Two waterpots of six firkins apiece come to 72 - 108 gallons of wine.

Shared among how many people?

 

[Queller]

Well, for the record, drinking is a sin

Not according to the Biblical record.

and Jesus wouldn't be an enabler.

Second, they had already drank the alcoholic wine up (assuming alcoholic wine was there in the first place), so Jesus wouldn't be giving them more.

The cognitive dissonance it takes to come up with this statement is astounding.

 

[AV1611VET]

Shared among how many people?

It doesn't matter.

One drop of alcoholic wine present would be causing the drinker to sin.

And Jesus wouldn't do that.

 

[crjmurray]

Is smoking a sin?

No

 

[crjmurray]

It doesn't matter.

One drop of alcoholic wine present would be causing the drinker to sin.

And Jesus wouldn't do that.

Projection

 

[AV1611VET]

Not according to the Biblical record.

Is smoking marijuana a sin?

It can kill you, you know.

2 Kings 4:40b O thou man of God, there is death in the pot.

 

[Queller]

Drinking is a sin.

Not according to the King James version of the Bible.

Jesus turned water into grape juice.

Not according to the King James version of the Bible.