Muslim who takes care of rural church

[JosephZ]

I realize that you want non-Muslims to talk to devout Muslim’s for most devout Muslim will be practicing taqiya, see below,
Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

The teaching that allows Muslims to do and saying anything that will further the cause of Islam to a non-Muslims.

As you can see I told the truth in this area, as I did in the rest.

You are misinformed and getting your information from anti-Islamic propaganda. Even the link you gave to define taqiyya is a well known anti-Islamic propaganda site and the definition you gave is incorrect.

if one is interested in what Muslims teach and believe there are many videos on YouTube both, for and against. I would suggest you do your own research. There are many teachers other than the two I mentioned, that not only agree with them, but go much deeper into the teaching and belief that is Islam.

Going to the internet and watching Youtube videos is perhaps the worst way for someone to learn about Islam and what Muslims believe. There's just way too much misinformation out there. As I mentioned before, there is no substitute for talking to a real Muslim when it comes to this subject. I suggest you visit a mosque in your area and talk to the Imam or perhaps invite a Muslim family in your community over for dinner. Ask them what taqiyya means to them, what shirk is, and what they believe about the end times. I can assure you it will not be the same as what you have mentioned in this thread or what you will learn from the anti-Islamic propagandists. You can also use the opportunity to witness to these same Muslims about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Not me]

You are misinformed and getting your information from anti-Islamic propaganda. Even the link you gave to define taqiyya is a well known anti-Islamic propaganda site and the definition you gave is incorrect.


Going to the internet and watching Youtube videos is perhaps the worst way for someone to learn about Islam and what Muslims believe. There's just way too much misinformation out there. As I mentioned before, there is no substitute for talking to a real Muslim when it comes to this subject. I suggest you visit a mosque in your area and talk to the Imam or perhaps invite a Muslim family in your community over for dinner. Ask them what taqiyya means to them, what shirk is, and what they believe about the end times. I can assure you it will not be the same as what you have mentioned in this thread or what you will learn from the anti-Islamic propagandists. You can also use the opportunity to witness to these same Muslims about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I wish you well.

But why don’t you do as I suggested and ask the God of Abraham what His thoughts are?

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[JosephZ]

I wish you well.

But why don’t you do as I suggested and ask the God of Abraham what His thoughts are?

What His thoughts are about what?

Earlier in the thread you suggested this to me.

I wish for you to get to know the God of Abraham in all reality and truth. For He does love you.

Why don’t you ask the God of Abraham, if it’s true?

I already know the God of Abraham and the Truth which is Jesus Christ. I also know He loves me and that my salvation is secure because it is in Christ.

 

[Not me]

What His thoughts are about what?

Earlier in the thread you suggested this to me.


I already know the God of Abraham and the Truth which is Jesus Christ. I also know He loves me and that my salvation is secure because it is in Christ.

Blessings than.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[☦Marius☦]

I’m going to repeat since the previous poster didn’t seem to get it . Jesus is considered to be one of the prophets in Islam along with Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. His Muslim name is Isa . Christians Jews and Zoroastrians are considered to be People of the Book. Their holy texts are considered to be incomplete not wrong.

The modern problems with Muslims iirc started because of continual and contentious fights over sovereignty in the Middle East , North Africa and Southern Europe, when Islam first started . This is a many centuries old issue ( frankly if everyone just stopped it wouldnt be one ) . But I guess centuries of thefts murders and executions just won’t go away. And Muslims aren’t responsible for all of it

I don't think zorostrians are considered people of the book. They don't follow either the Old or new Testament.

 

[Brightmoon]

I think Mohammed just liked them

 

[Brightmoon]

I don't think zorostrians are considered people of the book. They don't follow either the Old or new Testament.

that came out weird - see previous post

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<JZ>Yes, and I'm familiar with both of these men and what motivates them. Hint: these men have earned substantial amounts of money promoting their propaganda.
I haven't mentioned Islam in either a positive or negative light in this thread or what it teaches one way or the other. I simply suggested that if anyone wants to learn about Islam or what Muslims believe, then they should talk to Muslims. Blindly trusting what non-Muslims say about Islam and what Muslims believe simply because they claim to be a Christian is not wise.<JZ>

end

In the early 90s I was driving home from work one day listening to a Christian radio station. The speaker said something about the Quran that I did not believe so I drove directly to a library and checked out a Quran and it said exactly what the speaker said.

Qur’an 18:83-86—And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. [two horned] Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people.
Al Hadith Sunan Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.​

​

 

[kiwimac]

Sunni, Shia, or Sufi?

Any. There are differences but any will do.

 

[kiwimac]

Walid Shoebat used to be a Muslim, now he’s a Christian. I would think that individual would be the one that would know the difference between the two religions?

Joel Richardson’s is a Bible teacher that has studied islam. He seems quite good and knowledgeable on the subject. His teaching does concure for the most part with Mr. Shoebat’s. There are some difference’s but on the major points, like what is going to be the 12 iman’s or the madhdi’s claim to fame. Where they behead all the Jews and Christians. Just like in the Bible the anti-Christ’s claim to fame will be, beheading all the Jews and Christians. If you compare both religions you will see, what in Christianity is put forth as righteousness, in Islam is put forth as unrighteousness, they are two opposite belief systems. One believes in loving its emeies, the other in killing its enemies. It is quite a interesting study for one that is open to see the differences in the two religions . Seeing how you said “I suspect he’s no good” tells me you know nothing about him. You might want to check Him out for yourself? Or are you practicing “taqiya”. The teaching that says it’s ok lie to someone so they will not learn the true beliefs of islam?

Knowing that the greatest sin in Islam is the sin of “shirk” the belief that Jesus is the Son of God. Which in Christianity is the only way to be saved and go to Heaven. Once again proving the polar opposite(s) of the two belief systems.

I have often wondered, since Muslim’s believe that they are praying to the God of Abraham. Why don’t they just pray to the God of Abraham and ask about Jesus?

Like;

Dear; God of Abraham, please show me whether Jesus is your Son or not, and whether He really did die for my sins.

A simple prayer like that, would be answered by the God of Abraham.

Food for thought,

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Taqiyyah does not work that way. I could post the necessary quotes but you wouldn't believe me.

 

[kiwimac]

I realize that you want non-Muslims to talk to devout Muslim’s for most devout Muslim will be practicing taqiya, see below,
Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

The teaching that allows Muslims to do and saying anything that will further the cause of Islam to a non-Muslims.

Concerning “shirk”
First Greater Sin: Shirk (Polytheism)
“Ascribing a partner or Son to God.”

As you can see I told the truth in these area, as I did in the rest.

But I agree, if one is interested in what Muslims teach and believe there are many videos on YouTube both, for and against. I would suggest you do your own research. There are many teachers other than the two I mentioned, that not only agree with them, but go much deeper into the teaching and belief that is Islam.

Makes for one, (I would like to say frieghtening study), but I will leave that to the researcher.

But seeing how the God of Abraham, loves righteousness. All lying and deceiving before Him is sin.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Taqiyya is very much misunderstood. It is a practice that was begun by the Shi'ite during an era when there was much hostilities between Shi'a and Sunni and the Shi'a were deeply persecuted. It became acceptable among the Shi'ite to profess to be Sunni when living in a Sunni Nation. Later it grew to include any instance that contributed to the growth of Shi'ism.

Among the Sunni there are instances were some feel it is a forgivable sin to use Taqiyyah. The 4 Madhabs of Sunni Shariah law do recognize times when taqqiyah would not be a punishable crime those being:

According to Shari'ah, lying is not permitted except in specific cases which do not lead to loss of rights, bloodshed or slander of people’s honor, etc., but which concern saving lives, reconciling between people, or creating love between husband and wife.

Source

Further;

...Truthfulness is one of the pillars on which the moral survival of the world depends. It is the foundation of praiseworthy characteristics, the foundation of prophethood, the result of taqwah. Were it not for truthfulness, the rulings of all divinely-revealed laws would collapse. Acquiring the characteristic of lying is akin to shedding one's humanity, because speaking is an exclusively human trait.
(Bareeqah Mahmoodiyyah, Muhammad al-Khaadimi, 3/183

 

[Not me]

Taqiyyah does not work that way. I could post the necessary quotes but you wouldn't believe me.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

But I’m done with this conversation, you may practice taqiyya as you will.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[kiwimac]

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

But I’m done with this conversation, you may practice taqiyya as you will.

Much love in Christ, Not me

Yes, my opinion is only based on 40-odd years of study of Islam / fellowship with Muslims. Oh, and I'd be careful accusing others of lying. I am a Christian, a Bishop and frankly less likely to request you watch vidoes made by lying liars.

 

[Not me]

Yes, my opinion is only based on 40-odd years of study of Islam / fellowship with Muslims. Oh, and I'd be careful accusing others of lying. I am a Christian, a Bishop and frankly less likely to request you watch vidoes made by lying liars.

When did I accuse anyone of lying? Unless in fact, taqiyya, is in fact, the practice of lying.

But it is you, that are calling people liars. I simply asked people to do their own research and listen to both sides, the pro’s and con’s, and make their own decisions.

Which I think, is the wise thing to do.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[kiwimac]

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

But I’m done with this conversation, you may practice taqiyya as you will.

Much love in Christ, Not me

Recognise the bit in bold? YOU to me. Accusing me of lying.

 

[Not me]

Recognise the bit in bold? YOU to me. Accusing me of lying.

“You may practice taqiyya as you will”

If taqiyya is the practice of making chocolate cake, you may practice it as such. If taqiyya is the practice of t.v. repair you may practice it a such.

If taqiyya is the practice of lying, than, yes, I called you a liar, and if not, than no I didn’t.

So, which is it? Are you saying it is? If so, than all I have said all along concerning taqiyya has been correct. So you choose, is taqiyya the practice of lying or not?

But this is getting very tiresome and childish. So if you would accept my best wishes and prayers, I bid you farewell, you may have the last word.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[kiwimac]

So you get to call me a liar and then say it's all in the interpretation of the word? Taqiyyah has to do,originally, with the nascent Muslim community protecting their lives lest communities of faith die out. Later it evolved to protect the Shi'a minority from the Sunnis and then it changed further to enable Muslims in general to protect their lives. Do you get it? It is for life and death situations not simply lying for the sake of it!

Asserting, as you have, that anyone who disagrees with you and your chosen interpretation of Islam means they are practicing Taqqiyah is simply an indication of ignorance on your part.

 

[Not me]

So you get to call me a liar and then say it's all in the interpretation of the word? Taqiyyah has to do,originally, with the nascent Muslim community protecting their lives lest communities of faith die out. Later it evolved to protect the Shi'a minority from the Sunnis and then it changed further to enable Muslims in general to protect their lives. Do you get it? It is for life and death situations not simply lying for the sake of it!

Asserting, as you have, that anyone who disagrees with you and your chosen interpretation of Islam means they are practicing Taqqiyah is simply an indication of ignorance on your part.

As I said people can research this teaching of Islam for themselves, and make their own minds up as to what this practice is.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[JosephZ]

As I said people can research this teaching of Islam for themselves, and make their own minds up as to what this practice is.

Kiwimac's explanation of taqqiyah was correct. Lying just for the sake of lying or to intentionally deceive people is forbidden in Islam.

If you were to spend some time with Muslims and talk to them about what their religion teaches rather than depend on the internet and the teachings of anti-Islamic propagandists as sources for your research, you would not only have a better understanding of Islam, you would also be able to easily recognize frauds like Walid Shoebat and others like him.

 

[Not me]

Kiwimac's explanation of taqqiyah was correct. Lying just for the sake of lying or to intentionally deceive people is forbidden in Islam.

If you were to spend some time with Muslims and talk to them about what their religion teaches rather than depend on the internet and the teachings of anti-Islamic propagandists as sources for your research, you would not only have a better understanding of Islam, you would also be able to easily recognize frauds like Walid Shoebat and others like him.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me