Muslim student 'kicked off flight for speaking Arabic' sues Southwest Airlines

[Belk]

Only because it makes no sense to lie aboit something that will work against him. I think that makes sense.

Yet you believe he is lying about other things he says?

 

[USincognito]

Generally speaking, this has been true with many of the right wing people I've encountered since September 11th. In fact, I know a few in real life who exhibit prejudicial behavior toward both.

I had a co-worker who was looking for a roommate and wanted to post signs at the University of Texas Dallas with the provision - "No Muslims". I told him they wouldn't allow him to post anything like that.

 

[USincognito]

Yet you believe he is lying about other things he says?

Oh come now. Tiqquia and all that...

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yet you believe he is lying about other things he says?

He's being legally assisted by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an Islamic activist group... I don't know if their agenda is bias, but I am very leary. I don't know what they advise him to say.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Many people don't trust CAIR.

https://clarionproject.org/judge-disallows-reference-cair-hamas-ties-lawsuit/
U.S. District Judge Cynthia Bashant did allow references to CAIR’s hostility towards Israel and allegations that CAIR “promotes discriminatory bias against non-Muslim students on the basis of their religion.”

 

[Belk]

He's being legally assisted by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an Islamic activist group... I don't know if their agenda is bias, but I am very leary. I don't know what they advise him to say.

So it is simply guilt by association?

 

[Halbhh]

Muslim student 'kicked off flight for speaking Arabic' sues Southwest Airlines

No, the employee escorted him off, and he was questioned by agents (not the employee). And he was allowed to leave after explaining what he actually said. Again, there is no statement in the article that the attendant heard him say anything about martyrs, only that he asked him why he was speaking Arabic.

I was in an airport waiting on a flight near the boarding gate, and a friend and I were talking about security (a few years back), and I used the word "bomb" as I discussed various security stuff, and my friend almost panicked that I'd said "bomb" at all, regardless of meaning or context, etc., just to even say the word at all in the area. At all.

Looking back on that, she was 100% right, and I was wrong to think it was okay simply because I was innocent of any wrong intent.

I should not have even used the word at all even in mere conversation about security. Not even then.

It's called knowing where you are, and knowing about people.

She was right. She was wiser than me on that one.

I was helped and corrected by her, to not even innocently say "bomb."

As Christians we are to be humble and be able to be corrected.

Race isn't even relevant to this. If something sounds like, even somewhat like, possible wording someone might use prior to wrongdoing, people are right to be alarmed.

It's okay for the agent to be mistaken also.

I think the agents did the right thing, even if our law isn't clear enough, even then. They acted prudently.

Even with my generally libertarian leanings, and having many (not just 2) foreign friends whom I have been close to and loved, including from arab nations also, still it's completely the right action by the attendents, even mistaken, to play it safe and be cautious and remove the person.

The man inappropriately speaking arabic in that situation can catch another flight, and hopefully become more aware of other human beings in the world, not only himself, as if he existed alone in the world, or as if all that matters is only him and people he identifies with.

 

[Ronald]

Muslim student 'kicked off flight for speaking Arabic' sues Southwest Airlines

What the headlines may read five years from now:
"Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, any and all who did not put their faith in Jesus were destroyed from the face of the earth!" Now we celebrate peace, safety and brotherly love for a 1000 years. Getting kicked off an airlines is the least of his worries.

 

[Landon Caeli]

So it is simply guilt by association?

No guilt...

It's just appearing to look less and less like Islamaphobia or racism. Just more typical invasiveness of what airlines have become.

...I feel invaded too when TSA x-rays my genetals. But I can't use it as a tool to profit from. We have to expect this at airports now.

 

[Goonie]

What the headlines may read five years from now:
"Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, any and all who did not put their faith in Jesus were destroyed from the face of the earth!" Now we celebrate peace, safety and brotherly love for a 1000 years. Getting kicked off an airlines is the least of his worries.

 

[dzheremi]

I was in an airport waiting on a flight near the boarding gate, and a friend and I were talking about security (a few years back), and I used the word "bomb" as I discussed various security stuff, and my friend almost panicked that I'd said "bomb" at all, regardless of meaning or context, etc., just to even say the word at all in the area. At all.

Looking back on that, she was 100% right, and I was wrong to think it was okay simply because I was innocent of any wrong intent.

I should not have even used the word at all even in mere conversation about security. Not even then.

So it's wrong to use any Arabic in an airport or on a plane, even if it's your native language, because some other people might freak out about it?

That's pretty dumb. He was speaking to his uncle, who (given that they are Iraqis) was likely also a native Arabic-speaker. Why should they have to speak in a language other than their own, for any reason? How can we even know if that would've been possible, in this case? We don't know the man's uncle; what if he didn't even know English well enough to carry on a conversation? Too bad, I guess. Someone might get upset by it, and that has to trump your right to speak your own language to your own family.

That's a really disgusting view, and not at all comparable to talking about bombs. Again, there's no evidence that the conversation this man had in Arabic was about martyrs or bombs or any of this stuff.

It's called knowing where you are, and knowing about people.

I agree. Knowing that people can be irrational, and fear things when there is no reason to, it is very important to know your rights -- like your right to speak your own language, whether you're in an airport, on a plane, or anywhere else.

As Christians we are to be humble and be able to be corrected.

So be corrected now: there is nothing in saying "Inshallah" or speaking Arabic more generally -- or even speaking in Arabic about martyrs -- that does anything to prove a terrorism case against anyone who might be speaking Arabic on a plane. I don't imagine this young man is an idiot who doesn't understand that a lot of people are on edge in this particular situation, but it is a reasonable assumption that if you are not doing something wrong (which there is no evidence of in this case), you are free to discuss whatever you like, in whatever language you speak.

Race isn't even relevant to this. If something sounds like, even somewhat like, possible wording someone might use prior to wrongdoing, people are right to be alarmed.

How do you know what "possible wording" was at play in this case? As I have made the point several times to Landon, there is no evidence at all that the man was talking about martyrs.

I think the agents did the right thing, even if our law isn't clear enough, even then.

Well, to a certain extent, the flight attendant was responding to the unease of the passenger who originally 'reported' the man's speaking Arabic, so his hands are kind of tied insofar as people do have to take that kind of complaint seriously, including also the agents who would subsequently question the man.

My position is that, unless it can be proven otherwise (which I do not see how it can be, in this case; it seems very much to be a "he said, she said" type of situation...or, more accurately, "I said, the FBI said"), this was a simple case of stereotyping run amok, whereby someone heard Arabic being spoken in a situation that made them uncomfortable, and this resulted in the man's unfair treatment.

I have been there with priests and congregants of my own church (e.g., getting stopped on the road while on our way to liturgy, being yelled at by people like my friend George's former neighbor about how we're all terrorists and whatever, etc.), so it doesn't seem too unbelievable that in the context of a flight such a thing could happen and result in an even lengthier and more degrading interrogation process, given how much more sensitive people are in that kind of situation (so, in a way, you and the flight attendant are right concerning human behavior). That does not make it right, however.

I wish that the people in this thread and in real life who feel that the panicked reaction to a person speaking Arabic is justified because of 9/11 or whatever would go at least a little bit out of their way to familiarize themselves with what it is that they are afraid of. Arabic is not the language of arch-terrorists any more than any other language might be (after all, most Muslims aren't Arabs, and don't speak Arabic), and you'd think after the likes of Jihadi John, Adam Yahiya Gadahn, John Walker Lindh, and other losers have proven the pan-ethnic draw of Islamist terrorism, we'd be a little smarter than to make such an ironclad association of the speaking of a language with terrorism.

This is the word of God as preached in every church in the world (the first chapter of the Gospel of St. John), but I bet if you took as many people as might fit on a plane and had them listen to it without any context (so as to most closely approximate the conditions by which people might freak out about hearing a phone conversation that they themselves are not a part of), there would be at least some subset of people who would feel uncomfortable about it, think it must have something to do with Islam, and then through that association think it must be something terrorist-related.

And, no, that's not me assuming that white people are being racist towards non-white people, since you can't tell what the priest chanting the gospel looks like (and Egyptians come in all colors). But I have had six years so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church in which to observe the reactions of everyday people who do not know any better, and the association of "Arabic = Muslim = Terrorism" has been...eh...not infrequent, or at least not as infrequent as you might think if this really has nothing to do with the language itself, but with the content. It absolutely does have to do with the language, or rather the associations of the language with a particular religion and culture and terrorism found in both of those which make things like this happen, even when there is no basis for such an association (say, as when we are listening to the gospel, or when someone is saying "God-willing").

 

[Halbhh]

So it's wrong to use any Arabic in an airport or on a plane, even if it's your native language, because some other people might freak out about it?

That's pretty dumb. He was speaking to his uncle, who (given that they are Iraqis) was likely also a native Arabic-speaker. Why should they have to speak in a language other than their own, for any reason? How can we even know if that would've been possible, in this case? We don't know the man's uncle; what if he didn't even know English well enough to carry on a conversation? Too bad, I guess. Someone might get upset by it, and that has to trump your right to speak your own language to your own family.

That's a really disgusting view, and not at all comparable to talking about bombs. Again, there's no evidence that the conversation this man had in Arabic was about martyrs or bombs or any of this stuff.



I agree. Knowing that people can be irrational, and fear things when there is no reason to, it is very important to know your rights -- like your right to speak your own language, whether you're in an airport, on a plane, or anywhere else.



So be corrected now: there is nothing in saying "Inshallah" or speaking Arabic more generally -- or even speaking in Arabic about martyrs -- that does anything to prove a terrorism case against anyone who might be speaking Arabic on a plane. I don't imagine this young man is an idiot who doesn't understand that a lot of people are on edge in this particular situation, but it is a reasonable assumption that if you are not doing something wrong (which there is no evidence of in this case), you are free to discuss whatever you like, in whatever language you speak.



How do you know what "possible wording" was at play in this case? As I have made the point several times to Landon, there is no evidence at all that the man was talking about martyrs.



Well, to a certain extent, the flight attendant was responding to the unease of the passenger who originally 'reported' the man's speaking Arabic, so his hands are kind of tied insofar as people do have to take that kind of complaint seriously, including also the agents who would subsequently question the man.

My position is that, unless it can be proven otherwise (which I do not see how it can be, in this case; it seems very much to be a "he said, she said" type of situation...or, more accurately, "I said, the FBI said"), this was a simple case of stereotyping run amok, whereby someone heard Arabic being spoken in a situation that made them uncomfortable, and this resulted in the man's unfair treatment.

I have been there with priests and congregants of my own church (e.g., getting stopped on the road while on our way to liturgy, being yelled at by people like my friend George's former neighbor about how we're all terrorists and whatever, etc.), so it doesn't seem too unbelievable that in the context of a flight such a thing could happen and result in an even lengthier and more degrading interrogation process, given how much more sensitive people are in that kind of situation (so, in a way, you and the flight attendant are right concerning human behavior). That does not make it right, however.

I wish that the people in this thread and in real life who feel that the panicked reaction to a person speaking Arabic is justified because of 9/11 or whatever would go at least a little bit out of their way to familiarize themselves with what it is that they are afraid of. Arabic is not the language of arch-terrorists any more than any other language might be (after all, most Muslims aren't Arabs, and don't speak Arabic), and you'd think after the likes of Jihadi John, Adam Yahiya Gadahn, John Walker Lindh, and other losers have proven the pan-ethnic draw of Islamist terrorism, we'd be a little smarter than to make such an ironclad association of the speaking of a language with terrorism.

This is the word of God as preached in every church in the world (the first chapter of the Gospel of St. John), but I bet if you took as many people as might fit on a plane and had them listen to it without any context (so as to most closely approximate the conditions by which people might freak out about hearing a phone conversation that they themselves are not a part of), there would be at least some subset of people who would feel uncomfortable about it, think it must have something to do with Islam, and then through that association think it must be something terrorist-related.

And, no, that's not me assuming that white people are being racist towards non-white people, since you can't tell what the priest chanting the gospel looks like (and Egyptians come in all colors). But I have had six years so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church in which to observe the reactions of everyday people who do not know any better, and the association of "Arabic = Muslim = Terrorism" has been...eh...not infrequent, or at least not as infrequent as you might think if this really has nothing to do with the language itself, but with the content. It absolutely does have to do with the language, or rather the associations of the language with a particular religion and culture and terrorism found in both of those which make things like this happen, even when there is no basis for such an association (say, as when we are listening to the gospel, or when someone is saying "God-willing").

Anything is 'disgusting' as you said, if you look at it with a prejudice.

What I wrote about is the situation where I used the word "bomb" innocently.

So, while I could entirely say "I have a right to talk, and I was totally innocent" that is like pretending other people have to adjust to me, and I can ignore their own situation, as if I am important, and they are not important.

I'd like to be able to have read past your 2nd paragraph.

Can you see how making a personal attack makes it hard for people to listen to you?

 

[Landon Caeli]

So it's wrong to use any Arabic in an airport or on a plane, even if it's your native language, because some other people might freak out about it?

That's pretty dumb. He was speaking to his uncle, who (given that they are Iraqis) was likely also a native Arabic-speaker. Why should they have to speak in a language other than their own, for any reason? How can we even know if that would've been possible, in this case? We don't know the man's uncle; what if he didn't even know English well enough to carry on a conversation? Too bad, I guess. Someone might get upset by it, and that has to trump your right to speak your own language to your own family.

That's a really disgusting view, and not at all comparable to talking about bombs. Again, there's no evidence that the conversation this man had in Arabic was about martyrs or bombs or any of this stuff.



I agree. Knowing that people can be irrational, and fear things when there is no reason to, it is very important to know your rights -- like your right to speak your own language, whether you're in an airport, on a plane, or anywhere else.



So be corrected now: there is nothing in saying "Inshallah" or speaking Arabic more generally -- or even speaking in Arabic about martyrs -- that does anything to prove a terrorism case against anyone who might be speaking Arabic on a plane. I don't imagine this young man is an idiot who doesn't understand that a lot of people are on edge in this particular situation, but it is a reasonable assumption that if you are not doing something wrong (which there is no evidence of in this case), you are free to discuss whatever you like, in whatever language you speak.



How do you know what "possible wording" was at play in this case? As I have made the point several times to Landon, there is no evidence at all that the man was talking about martyrs.



Well, to a certain extent, the flight attendant was responding to the unease of the passenger who originally 'reported' the man's speaking Arabic, so his hands are kind of tied insofar as people do have to take that kind of complaint seriously, including also the agents who would subsequently question the man.

My position is that, unless it can be proven otherwise (which I do not see how it can be, in this case; it seems very much to be a "he said, she said" type of situation...or, more accurately, "I said, the FBI said"), this was a simple case of stereotyping run amok, whereby someone heard Arabic being spoken in a situation that made them uncomfortable, and this resulted in the man's unfair treatment.

I have been there with priests and congregants of my own church (e.g., getting stopped on the road while on our way to liturgy, being yelled at by people like my friend George's former neighbor about how we're all terrorists and whatever, etc.), so it doesn't seem too unbelievable that in the context of a flight such a thing could happen and result in an even lengthier and more degrading interrogation process, given how much more sensitive people are in that kind of situation (so, in a way, you and the flight attendant are right concerning human behavior). That does not make it right, however.

I wish that the people in this thread and in real life who feel that the panicked reaction to a person speaking Arabic is justified because of 9/11 or whatever would go at least a little bit out of their way to familiarize themselves with what it is that they are afraid of. Arabic is not the language of arch-terrorists any more than any other language might be (after all, most Muslims aren't Arabs, and don't speak Arabic), and you'd think after the likes of Jihadi John, Adam Yahiya Gadahn, John Walker Lindh, and other losers have proven the pan-ethnic draw of Islamist terrorism, we'd be a little smarter than to make such an ironclad association of the speaking of a language with terrorism.

This is the word of God as preached in every church in the world (the first chapter of the Gospel of St. John), but I bet if you took as many people as might fit on a plane and had them listen to it without any context (so as to most closely approximate the conditions by which people might freak out about hearing a phone conversation that they themselves are not a part of), there would be at least some subset of people who would feel uncomfortable about it, think it must have something to do with Islam, and then through that association think it must be something terrorist-related.

And, no, that's not me assuming that white people are being racist towards non-white people, since you can't tell what the priest chanting the gospel looks like (and Egyptians come in all colors). But I have had six years so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church in which to observe the reactions of everyday people who do not know any better, and the association of "Arabic = Muslim = Terrorism" has been...eh...not infrequent, or at least not as infrequent as you might think if this really has nothing to do with the language itself, but with the content. It absolutely does have to do with the language, or rather the associations of the language with a particular religion and culture and terrorism found in both of those which make things like this happen, even when there is no basis for such an association (say, as when we are listening to the gospel, or when someone is saying "God-willing").

What were you prior to being Coptic, because I'm pretty sure I caught you on another forum in 2012.

Anyways, it appears the FBI caught wind that he may or may not have said "the martyrs", in Arabic, on an airplane. We all know what that means in islam.

...So he was investigated.

I'm sorry if some religious people respect the Arabic language and feel confused about this. But what is most important is that people did their job. If we don't want Homeland Security, the FBI or TSA doing their jobs as they're paid to do, then lets address that. But if someone suspects anything fishy a plane, you can bet it's going to be investigated these days. Guaranteed.

So we should watch our words. Lets use common sense and take caution.

 

[dzheremi]

Anything is 'disgusting' as you said, if you look at it with a prejudice.

Agreed.

What I wrote about is the situation where I used the word "bomb" innocently.

Yes, and what I wrote about is the reality where people have a right to speak their own language to their own family who also speak that language. I don't think that is at all comparable to your situation where you are talking about bombs in the airport. That's the "fire in a crowded movie theater" standard which quite rightly restricts the usage of certain words, whereas the situation vis-a-vis Arabic speakers seems to make literally anything they could be talking about into "fire", whether that's what they're actually talking about or not.

So, while I could entirely say "I have a right to talk, and I was totally innocent" that is like pretending other people have to adjust to me, and I can ignore their own situation, as if I am important, and they are not important.

If "their situation" is not based on what is actually going on, but instead on a priori distrust of others for reasons that do not stand up to scrutiny (such as emotional reactions to hearing Arabic...or even something that sounds like Arabic to them but isn't, like one of the Neo-Aramaic dialects, or Hebrew, or whatever), then yes, your rights would trump theirs. Not you as a person (it's not personal, as though the plane had it out for this guy because he is who he is, and this wouldn't or couldn't have happened to a different Arabic-speaking person), but your rights.

I'd like to be able to have read past your 2nd paragraph.

What am I supposed to say about this? I read your message without skipping anything. It'd be nice to be granted the same courtesy if you are going to bother to respond at all, though of course no one can force you to do anything.

Can you see how making a personal attack makes it hard for people to listen to you?

What personal attack? What are you talking about?

 

[Halbhh]

So it's wrong to use any Arabic in an airport or on a plane, even if it's your native language, because some other people might freak out about it?

That's pretty dumb. He was speaking to his uncle, who (given that they are Iraqis) was likely also a native Arabic-speaker. Why should they have to speak in a language other than their own, for any reason? How can we even know if that would've been possible, in this case? We don't know the man's uncle; what if he didn't even know English well enough to carry on a conversation? Too bad, I guess. Someone might get upset by it, and that has to trump your right to speak your own language to your own family.

That's a really disgusting view, and not at all comparable to talking about bombs. Again, there's no evidence that the conversation this man had in Arabic was about martyrs or bombs or any of this stuff.



I agree. Knowing that people can be irrational, and fear things when there is no reason to, it is very important to know your rights -- like your right to speak your own language, whether you're in an airport, on a plane, or anywhere else.



So be corrected now: there is nothing in saying "Inshallah" or speaking Arabic more generally -- or even speaking in Arabic about martyrs -- that does anything to prove a terrorism case against anyone who might be speaking Arabic on a plane. I don't imagine this young man is an idiot who doesn't understand that a lot of people are on edge in this particular situation, but it is a reasonable assumption that if you are not doing something wrong (which there is no evidence of in this case), you are free to discuss whatever you like, in whatever language you speak.



How do you know what "possible wording" was at play in this case? As I have made the point several times to Landon, there is no evidence at all that the man was talking about martyrs.



Well, to a certain extent, the flight attendant was responding to the unease of the passenger who originally 'reported' the man's speaking Arabic, so his hands are kind of tied insofar as people do have to take that kind of complaint seriously, including also the agents who would subsequently question the man.

My position is that, unless it can be proven otherwise (which I do not see how it can be, in this case; it seems very much to be a "he said, she said" type of situation...or, more accurately, "I said, the FBI said"), this was a simple case of stereotyping run amok, whereby someone heard Arabic being spoken in a situation that made them uncomfortable, and this resulted in the man's unfair treatment.

I have been there with priests and congregants of my own church (e.g., getting stopped on the road while on our way to liturgy, being yelled at by people like my friend George's former neighbor about how we're all terrorists and whatever, etc.), so it doesn't seem too unbelievable that in the context of a flight such a thing could happen and result in an even lengthier and more degrading interrogation process, given how much more sensitive people are in that kind of situation (so, in a way, you and the flight attendant are right concerning human behavior). That does not make it right, however.

I wish that the people in this thread and in real life who feel that the panicked reaction to a person speaking Arabic is justified because of 9/11 or whatever would go at least a little bit out of their way to familiarize themselves with what it is that they are afraid of. Arabic is not the language of arch-terrorists any more than any other language might be (after all, most Muslims aren't Arabs, and don't speak Arabic), and you'd think after the likes of Jihadi John, Adam Yahiya Gadahn, John Walker Lindh, and other losers have proven the pan-ethnic draw of Islamist terrorism, we'd be a little smarter than to make such an ironclad association of the speaking of a language with terrorism.

This is the word of God as preached in every church in the world (the first chapter of the Gospel of St. John), but I bet if you took as many people as might fit on a plane and had them listen to it without any context (so as to most closely approximate the conditions by which people might freak out about hearing a phone conversation that they themselves are not a part of), there would be at least some subset of people who would feel uncomfortable about it, think it must have something to do with Islam, and then through that association think it must be something terrorist-related.

And, no, that's not me assuming that white people are being racist towards non-white people, since you can't tell what the priest chanting the gospel looks like (and Egyptians come in all colors). But I have had six years so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church in which to observe the reactions of everyday people who do not know any better, and the association of "Arabic = Muslim = Terrorism" has been...eh...not infrequent, or at least not as infrequent as you might think if this really has nothing to do with the language itself, but with the content. It absolutely does have to do with the language, or rather the associations of the language with a particular religion and culture and terrorism found in both of those which make things like this happen, even when there is no basis for such an association (say, as when we are listening to the gospel, or when someone is saying "God-willing").

I expect you should be angry about (or at least eager to fix) wrongs done to you and your congregants.

It's always going to be the case that total strangers will fear any of us in some odd situation, when they should not. For instance, simply as a man in a coat, if in a dark alley walking, a total stranger may fear me -- they might walk wide around me, give me a big space, as if I'm dangerous, as has happened several times -- though they should not fear me ideally, and should not avoid me, ideally.

Ideally. But in real human life, here on Earth, I'm a stranger they don't know.

Not unless I talk to them and show I'm friendly.

By the way, welcome to America, if you have come here. I'm glad you are here. I really mean that. Just the other day I was delighted by this post --
Coptic Christian congregation finds new home after being hosted by Catholic parish

 

[dzheremi]

What were you prior to being Coptic, because I'm pretty sure I caught you on another forum in 2012.

I was Roman Catholic. I was received into the Coptic Orthodox Church in 2012, so chances are I was Coptic Orthodox by then, too.

Anyways, it appears the FBI caught wind that he may or may not have said "the martyrs", in Arabic, on an airplane. We all know what that means in islam.

So this means what, exactly? No one can talk about martyrs in Arabic? If someone from Church were to call me and tell me in Arabic about the martyrdom of some of our coreligionists in Egypt or Libya or wherever, I should tell them that I can't talk about that, because "we know all know what that means in Islam", as though there's some different word to be used to clarify that we are not talking about Islam? That's the problem here: people hear Arabic, any Arabic, and assume the worst.

...So he was investigated.

Yes, and apparently found to be without fault, since they let him leave after he explained what he was actually talking about.

I'm sorry if some religious people respect the Arabic language and feel confused about this. But what is most important is that people did their job. If we don't want Homeland Security, the FBI or TSA doing their jobs as they're paid to do, then lets address that. But if someone suspects anything fishy a plane, you can bet it's going to be investigated these days. Guaranteed.

I don't deny that this is the case. My point is that these people could do their jobs a lot more efficiently if there wasn't this knee-jerk reaction that merely speaking Arabic is itself some sort of prelude to or indication of terrorist activities.

So we should watch our words. Lets use common sense and take caution.

But it is common sense to assume that if you are not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to be dragged off of a plane for simply speaking your own language to your relative.

 

[dzheremi]

I expect you should be angry about (or at least eager to fix) wrongs done to you and your congregants.

Eh...Coptic people are largely used to it, but it is a bit sad to see people who have given up everything back home to come here be so bitterly disappointed that nobody wants to listen to them, and instead places them in the same boat as the very people and religion that is responsible for their ill-treatment in the first place.

It's always going to be the case that total strangers will fear any of us in some odd situation, when they should not. For instance, simply as a man in a coat, if in a dark alley walking, a total stranger may fear me -- they might walk wide around me, give me a big space, as if I'm dangerous, as has happened several times -- though they should not fear me ideally, and should not avoid me, ideally.

Ideally. But in real human life, here on Earth, I'm a stranger they don't know.

Yes, of course.

Not unless I talk to them and show I'm friendly.

I don't know...as fair as that is, I would think it unfair to assume that the young man in the story is not friendly. I know you aren't implying that, but the point is that if that's the standard for whether or not people have reason to fear you, then couldn't it be assumed that there are some friendly Arabic-speakers out there? I know plenty. Plus, I would think it would be pretty tiring to have to be overly friendly as you go throughout your day so as to avoid being turned into the NSA or whoever for scaring people by just existing.

]quote]By the way, welcome to America, if you have come here. I'm glad you are here. I really mean that. Just the other day I was delighted by this post --
Coptic Christian congregation finds new home after being hosted by Catholic parish[/QUOTE]

Oh, no. I'm already from America. But thank you. That is a nice gesture.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I was Roman Catholic. I was received into the Coptic Orthodox Church in 2012, so chances are I was Coptic Orthodox by then, too.



So this means what, exactly? No one can talk about martyrs in Arabic? If someone from Church were to call me and tell me in Arabic about the martyrdom of some of our coreligionists in Egypt or Libya or wherever, I should tell them that I can't talk about that, because "we know all know what that means in Islam", as though there's some different word to be used to clarify that we are not talking about Islam? That's the problem here: people hear Arabic, any Arabic, and assume the worst.



Yes, and apparently found to be without fault, since they let him leave after he explained what he was actually talking about.



I don't deny that this is the case. My point is that these people could do their jobs a lot more efficiently if there wasn't this knee-jerk reaction that merely speaking Arabic is itself some sort of prelude to or indication of terrorist activities.



But it is common sense to assume that if you are not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to be dragged off of a plane for simply speaking your own language to your relative.

Ah. I'm sure I met you at CAF then.

 

[SummerMadness]

The man inappropriately speaking arabic in that situation can catch another flight, and hopefully become more aware of other human beings in the world, not only himself, as if he existed alone in the world, or as if all that matters is only him and people he identifies with.

What's inappropriate is telling someone it is inappropriate to speak their native language. We have that right.

 

[dzheremi]

Ah. I'm sure I met you at CAF then.

Perhaps. I was banned from there so long ago, I can't remember, to be honest. But if so, then it's nice to see you again.