Muhammad ibn Adam Al-Kawthari, of the Deobandi movement, gave a lecture at St. Johns University

[Tanj]

Lol you don't seriously expect the curriculum description to state that they teach how to beat a woman in the holiest possible manner, so you?

Well, I expect if someone is going to accuse them of beating women in a holy manner that they would have more than a pdf which links to a 404 error.

 

[Kentonio]

Some people need to learn that inviting a speaker to a university is not the same thing as the university endorsing the views of that speaker. Part of a higher education is listening to and debating the opinions of people with differing views, especially when those views are completely contrary to your own.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, I expect if someone is going to accuse them of beating women in a holy manner that they would have more than a pdf which links to a 404 error.

The link worked for me...what exactly is the part you want to read? I'll look for it for you...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Some people need to learn that inviting a speaker to a university is not the same thing as the university endorsing the views of that speaker. Part of a higher education is listening to and debating the opinions of people with differing views, especially when those views are completely contrary to your own.

I totally agree with you Kentonio. The sad thing is this current crop of college students believe it's acceptable to try to shut down speakers with opposing views by protesting and causing enough damage that the police have to shut down the event for everyone's safety.

Its a dirty tactic of using violence to achieve political goals and it should be condemned by both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Kentonio]

I totally agree with you Kentonio. The sad thing is this current crop of college students believe it's acceptable to try to shut down speakers with opposing views by protesting and causing enough damage that the police have to shut down the event for everyone's safety.

Its a dirty tactic of using violence to achieve political goals and it should be condemned by both sides of the political spectrum.

Absolutely, I agree 100%. It saddens me deeply when I see students holding those kind of protests. The best way to counter offensive views is to debate them and reveal their inherent weaknesses, not just to shout them down.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Absolutely, I agree 100%. It saddens me deeply when I see students holding those kind of protests. The best way to counter offensive views is to debate them and reveal their inherent weaknesses, not just to shout them down.

Agreed...the best cure for bad ideas is daylight. Bring it out into the open where everyone can see it and understand why it's an awful idea. When you force it underground...it just festers and gathers more supporters.

 

[Tanj]

The link worked for me...what exactly is the part you want to read? I'll look for it for you...

I'm talking about the links in p84

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm talking about the links in p84

Of the pdf?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Some people need to learn that inviting a speaker to a university is not the same thing as the university endorsing the views of that speaker. Part of a higher education is listening to and debating the opinions of people with differing views, especially when those views are completely contrary to your own.

Hey, I think we actually agree. Now all we need do is get the universities to agree to that too.

 

[Kentonio]

Hey, I think we actually agree. Now all we need do is get the universities to agree to that too.

They generally do, which is why these stories keep appearing. The people who need to be convinced are the students who hold the protests. It doesn’t help that social media has helped encourage people to think that protesting against unpleasant views is always a virtuous thing. Often it can be, but in an academic setting it can often be a fairly childish and self-defeating response and their goals could be much better met by intelligent debate. When a white nationalist or fundamental Islamist is stopped from speaking at a university, it gives them free publicly and a victim card to play. It’s often much better to engage with their ideas and destroy them logically and systematically.

 

[grasping the after wind]

They generally do, which is why these stories keep appearing. The people who need to be convinced are the students who hold the protests. It doesn’t help that social media has helped encourage people to think that protesting against unpleasant views is always a virtuous thing. Often it can be, but in an academic setting it can often be a fairly childish and self-defeating response and their goals could be much better met by intelligent debate. When a white nationalist or fundamental Islamist is stopped from speaking at a university, it gives them free publicly and a victim card to play. It’s often much better to engage with their ideas and destroy them logically and systematically.

Protesting against a view is not the same as shutting down a lecture. That is as much an expression of free speech as the lecture is. The protesters cannot shut down a lecture. Only the university can do that . If the people in charge of a university have no desire to shut down a lecture, no amount of protesting would force it to do so. I can only assume that, at least in some of these incidents if not all of them, the people in charge of the universities that shut down lectures do so because they are willing to shut down speech they personally disapprove of and are using the possibility of violence from protesters as an excuse to do what they want to do. Even as along ago as when I was in college, there were professors that were unwilling to engage in debate and insisted that their position on an issue was the only possible one to hold. I am told that this has become more prevalent in recent years and that a sort of orthodoxy of thought was encouraged and dissent from that orthodoxy was not only discouraged but might even be retaliated against. I know this last is hearsay evidence as I have not attended a college class since the early 90s, but my experience then seems to indicate that this may well be , to some degree, the case as it was then even more likely that a professor would be intolerant of dissenting opinions than it had been in the 70s when I was doing undergraduate work. If those same intolerant professors I knew in the past gained authority in the university I would assume they would run the university in the same intolerant manner they ran their classes.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Protesting against a view is not the same as shutting down a lecture. That is as much an expression of free speech as the lecture is. The protesters cannot shut down a lecture. Only the university can do that . If the people in charge of a university have no desire to shut down a lecture, no amount of protesting would force it to do so. I can only assume that, at least in some of these incidents if not all of them, the people in charge of the universities that shut down lectures do so because they are willing to shut down speech they personally disapprove of and are using the possibility of violence from protesters as an excuse to do what they want to do. Even as along ago as when I was in college, there were professors that were unwilling to engage in debate and insisted that their position on an issue was the only possible one to hold. I am told that this has become more prevalent in recent years and that a sort of orthodoxy of thought was encouraged and dissent from that orthodoxy was not only discouraged but might even be retaliated against. I know this last is hearsay evidence as I have not attended a college class since the early 90s, but my experience then seems to indicate that this may well be , to some degree, the case as it was then even more likely that a professor would be intolerant of dissenting opinions than it had been in the 70s when I was doing undergraduate work. If those same intolerant professors I knew in the past gained authority in the university I would assume they would run the university in the same intolerant manner they ran their classes.

...That was really helpful / insightful.