(moved) What can be done to improve the race relations in America?

[Monk Brendan]

Most solutions take into account comfortability; there is nothing comfortable about systematic innate oppression unless you don't experience it.

I'm a white guy, but I have experienced it. There is systematic innate oppression of FAT people. Doctors, Nutritionists, Dieticians, Lawyers, the US Navy, all practice oppression of fat people. I have done all I can to lose weight, but it won't go away.

Then there is oppression against left-handed people, and red-headed people, and so on. How about oppression against the poor? I would love to trade places with Donald Trump, but it isn't going to happen, and if you think that you can pass a law that says that Monk Brendan (or Tattered Soul) gets an income of One Million dollars a year, and Donald Trump (or any of the other million or billionaires) has to live on my SSI and Food Stamps, then you have been smoking too much of whatever, and you need to have your lithium dosage fixed.

 

[Monk Brendan]

1600 Pennsylvania Ave. isnt.

Oh, but it is. Obama is Black, is he not?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Why should anybody who has never owned a slave pay those reparations? Who would pay? Only the white people or all tax paying americans?

I am first to admit that my father's family moved here is 1642, and may have had the opportunity to own slaves. I will even admit that there are black persons in America that have my last name with an "S" at the end, usually denoting a slave name. However, my paternal grandmother was a Jew who fled from the Antisemitism in Europe. My mother's folks fled from Germany just before WW I just because they were Catholic, and were being oppressed. Maybe I should ask for reparations from Germany for the plight of my ancestors!

It ain't going to happen.

 

[Monk Brendan]

African Americans should be given their own self governing autonomous region.
A country within a country.Of course relocating there would optional and those living in those states selected of other races would need to be relocated.

Ever hear of Liberia?

 

[tatteredsoul]

Oh, but it is. Obama is Black, is he not?

The president is the PRESIDEnt, s/he presides over government matters and is the leader of decisions.

But, there are cheques and banlances: Congress, for example, has the power to pass laws - and often works very hard against the presidents' wishes.

So, no 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is not a minority governed area. The president is the CIC and leader of the executive branch. Two other branches work together to govern the US.

And, really we are just talking pedestrian chains of command. The president doesn't really run much; that is why choice of handlers matter so much.

 

[Dionne005]

There are many things that would help and we can't all do them all.

But one thing that can be done by every American this November is to refuse to vote Democrat and continue the legacy of Barack Obama through Hillary Clinton.

And, before I'm accused by someone of just stirring the pot, I am completely serious.

The man has played a major role in setting race relations in this country back many years.

More of the same kind of rhetoric and actions concerning race, coming from the likes of Hillary Clinton, is about the last thing this country needs.

You're finally awake because of Barack Marvin. Finally. Others white folkd also. Just because of Barack Obama. Marvin, black people have always felt the way you are seeing it now. ALWAYS. You're just now realizing it because we have a black president. It doesn't matter if I agree with him on his stuff or not. I'm just glad white people finally realize that we don't the foolery that's been taking place in the country and acting like racism is over. I have many stories from experience and more before Obama than after but we can talk about this past weekend for now.

This weekend me and my family went to Stone mountain park in GA. Beautiful place. But if you see the picture of the mountain you will see 3 confederate leaders carved into the stone. That is fine since I know it's just history, let's move FORWARD. The past is in the past. But nope, when they played the laser show that happened that night it was all about them primarily. About their side of the war and how proud they were and they were making these leaders look so...amazing....like heros. THEY ARE NOT HEROS! BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE CONFEDERATE PEOPLE OR THEIR FLAG! NEVER WANTED TO FIGHT ALONG WITH THEM EITHER. BUNCH OF BULL CRAP! Then they had the nerve to show other history of Kennedy, James Brown Caz he's from ATL and Rosa parks but no MLK. Hmmmmm.....bunch of bull crap! Then they literally expected my family to stand up for the national anthem? GET REAL!

 

[Dionne005]

Ever hear of Liberia?

You must have missed my post on the 1920 when I said white people bomb blacks when they created black wall street killing thousands of blacks and successful companies. Smh WAKE UP.

http://sfbayview.com/2011/02/what-happened-to-black-wall-street-on-june-1-1921/

 

[tatteredsoul]

You're finally awake because of Barack Marvin. Finally. Others white folkd also. Just because of Barack Obama. Marvin, black people have always felt the way you are seeing it now. ALWAYS. You're just now realizing it because we have a black president. It doesn't matter if I agree with him on his stuff or not. I'm just glad white people finally realize that we don't the foolery that's been taking place in the country and acting like racism is over. I have many stories from experience and more before Obama than after but we can talk about this past weekend for now.

This weekend me and my family went to Stone mountain park in GA. Beautiful place. But if you see the picture of the mountain you will see 3 confederate leaders carved into the stone. That is fine since I know it's just history, let's move FORWARD. The past is in the past. But nope, when they played the laser show that happened that night it was all about them primarily. About their side of the war and how proud they were and they were making these leaders look so...amazing....like heros. THEY ARE NOT HEROS! BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE CONFEDERATE PEOPLE OR THEIR FLAG! NEVER WANTED TO FIGHT ALONG WITH THEM EITHER. BUNCH OF BULL CRAP! Then they had the nerve to show other history of Kennedy, James Brown Caz he's from ATL and Rosa parks but no MLK. Hmmmmm.....bunch of bull crap! Then they literally expected my family to stand up for the national anthem? GET REAL!

What makes me laugh is that people have the audacity to say minorities in America have it *emphatically* great - even so much so that some whites feel underprivileged to the point of protests (especially with things like scholarship and EOE.) Supposedly, minorities in America have 150% the opportunity and privileges as white americans, but are just lazy, or violent, or aren't raised right.

Yet, no one is jumping to switch privilege states; people are even making excuses as to why it wouldn't work for everyone involved. Everyone involved: suddenly the feelings and well-being of everyone is important in this experiment of privilege change...

Anyone want to switch and be a minority in America under the present system for a few decades? No? That is odd... The stereotypes seem to suggest that no matter the privilege change, minorities will stay (for lack of a more encompassing term that won't get me banned...) ANIMALS. Moreover, the stereotypes suggest privilege is a farce and fraud.

If that is the case, and there is no such thing as unfair, systematic oppression of minorities in America, what difference would it make to switch privilege? It should be at WORST, an even trade according to many on these forums, and in the States.

Curious indeed.

Just one generation. One time.

 

[Dionne005]

For all those that say, well I didn't own slaves....you are showing you know nothing about slavery. All white people have participated in slavery practice. Being a slave master is like being Steve Jobs. You love the apple and the idea of apple but you can't own apple, so you buy from apple to participate in today's new hot things. Apple makes it you buy it. Same concept for slavery. These slave masters were treating blacks like machines to sell crop to customers like you. You needed pillows, you came to the plantation to get cotton. Same for food and everything else.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Then they literally expected my family to stand up for the national anthem? GET REAL!

The wonder as to why the entire song is hardly ever mentioned, let alone sang, is because it is a song glorifying war, and the death of slaves who had the audacity to fight with the "enemy" after the "enemy" promised freedom for families.

"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave"

 

[Dionne005]

EXACTLY TATTERED SOUL!

 

[Marvin Knox]

You're finally awake because of Barack Marvin. Finally. Others white folkd also. Just because of Barack Obama. Marvin, black people have always felt the way you are seeing it now. ALWAYS. You're just now realizing it because we have a black president. ...............

Spare me the self righteous lectures.

My family has been of mixed race long before it was popular. Race has been the hot topic around the dinner table in my family for generations.

You don't know anything about me or mine. You don't even know my particular race - if it is one or the other.

I gave people here my opinion on a topic about which I know a great deal.

The opinion I shared is one shared by both blacks and whites in my family.

Granted - as evangelical Christians for the most part - we may be a bit more open to looking at things from a couple of world views as well as from both sides of the races themselves.

THEY ARE NOT HEROS! BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE CONFEDERATE PEOPLE OR THEIR FLAG! NEVER WANTED TO FIGHT ALONG WITH THEM EITHER. BUNCH OF BULL CRAP!

Of course - no surprise there concerning any enlightened person no matter what their race.

Then they literally expected my family to stand up for the national anthem? GET REAL!

I expect any truly enlightened person to stand for the national anthem of a nation who's foundation allowed for and encouraged the eradication of such a well entrenched institution as slavery within a few generations.

And that nation accomplished it through the shedding of brother's blood - and the vast majority of that blood was white.

I expect any truly enlightened person to stand for the national anthem of a nation which gave the blood of it's young men for the next century and a half to prevent just such slavery and worse from happening again in many other places in the world.

May this nation always be willing to do that when required by conscience.

These things will always likely be a work in progress in this nation until the Lord comes and sorts it all out.

But may we have the intelligence to never again elect a president primarily based on the color of his skin - which is not only unwise but is the very embodiment of racism.

 

[Dionne005]

Marvin, I don't care what color you are. If you were black, I'd call you an uncle Tom. I also don't care about what your family talks about or FEELS. All that matter is facts. Slavery did not end because white people all the sudden woke up one day and began to feel bad for it after 400 years. It ended because of money. You got people that could afford slaves vs people that only had their family for workers. They wanted to even out the working field. If all whites could afford to have slaves, slavery never would have ended. Every white person would have been exchanging crop for another crop working together in the states.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Marvin, I don't care what color you are. If you were black, I'd call you an uncle Tom.

Why doesn't that surprise me? You are, I see and as I suspected, part of the problem.

I also don't care about what your family talks about or FEELS. All that matter is facts.

That's ridiculous.

Some of the "facts" about racial tension IS how each side feels.

Slavery did not end because white people all the sudden woke up one day and began to feel bad for it after 400 years.

Ir's not 400 years - it's millennia.

It's not even 400 years in the nation for which the flag and anthem stand.

The United States of America is something less than 150 years.

It ended because of money. You got people that could afford slaves vs people that only had their family for workers.

Nonsense - the people of the North as an entity could afford slaves even more than the South as a group. The truth is and was that slavery is a terribly inefficient way basis for almost every financial endeavor but those the South was engaged in.

Financial inequality is one of the big reasons that the North was able to defeat the South by the way.

They wanted to even out the working field.

"They" meaning who exactly?

If all whites could afford to have slaves, slavery never would have ended.

Nonsense again - some of the richest people in the colonies were the biggest pushers concerning making sure that the mechanism for the eradication of slavery was made a permanent part of our founding documents. Some of them pushed for the anti-slave wording in the documents as well as the mechanisms themselves.

In addition some of those who had grown up under the vision of slavery and, indeed, inherited slaves themselves - also saw the evil of the norm in their society and pushed for the exact kind of nation where such an institution could not long endure.

Why the likes of Washington and Jefferson didn't free their slaves is a big topic and a discussion for another day perhaps.

Again --- you are welcome to your opinion as I am to mine.

I merely shared my opinion that Obama and his reactions to various racial incidents and the race hustlers who surrounded them - has played a big part in the things we've seen transpire in the last few months and years.

IMO - that shows me well informed and thoughtful and not an Uncle Tom as you charge.

But - if name calling is your way of solving the problem - go for it. How's that working out for you?

 

[Dionne005]

Man I'm done explaining to you Marvin. Maybe someone else will lead you on the right direction.

A lady here has asked about hair and how her daughter wore braids. There is nothing wrong with your daughter wearing her hair any way she wants it. Same for any other person. The problem is why black people did it and do it. My great grandmother did it and people after her too. Same for many other black families. The black person hair is normally not acceptable. Anything to erase blackness is acceptable. I'm speaking from experience and from history. Look it up. Even in today's world black children in schools have been forbidden to wear braids and natural puffs because the school said it was a distraction. Jobs have been known to not hire blacks with natural hair. The system had been made to screw us over. People have protested and made change over time but I've had friends that had issues with going natural Caz they are afraid to be themselves around white people. Now I'll still straighten my hair but not permanent. Just by heat. But many just started going natural because they are tired of trying to think they can blend in. I on the other hand did it because putting chemical in my hair made it fall out. There was one time I happened to have my hair straight and a natural hair black woman walked by me and this white man. He said to me he didn't understand why black people MADE there hair like that and like the way my hair was Caz that's how it should be. That woman's hair was well groomed. This man was an older man that's ignorant so I just went about my day. You should really pay more attention to the reason why black people do things vs just why you do things. Glad you at least asked.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Most people don't really understand what Helter-skelter is, but it painfully ironic how it is coming to that.

The real interesting bit about Helter-skelter is why Manson would suggest for some whites to be on the side of the the minorities - who are poised to win the *race war*/civil war to come according to the ideal.

It is still a system of subjugation and oppression.


By the way, anyone who pushes for a civil war or race war, and even actively participates in it, is responsible for the planned solution to come out of that planned disorder. You are being had indulging in prejudices and racism, stereotype reinforcement, burning jerseys, killing each other and attempting to influence the world in such a sophomoric, primitive way - all with dreams of partisan championship.

But the defiance of the sociological, sociopolitical dillitant cannot admit it this is happening. Just sit back and watch the show performed. If people were really as patriotic as they claim, they would REVOLT instead of fighting each other. But, uniting for a common agreed upon goal of posterity for ALL does not feed the ego, and competitive selfish attitude of the American Capitalist Consumer.

No need to worry about TEOTWAWKI, America will destroy itself from within with their childish race/oppression/social rights ignorance games, and the rest of the world will pick up the pieces.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I'm a white guy, but I have experienced it. There is systematic innate oppression of FAT people. Doctors, Nutritionists, Dieticians, Lawyers, the US Navy, all practice oppression of fat people. I have done all I can to lose weight, but it won't go away.

STOP IT.

You can chage your weight easily. It is not your IDENTITY.

People in America are being oppressed for their IDENTITY, not for transient physical features. It isn't the same at all.

Then there is oppression against left-handed people, and red-headed people, and so on.

What about left handed, red haires minorities? They exist.


You are still missing the point. Handedness is notnyour IDENTITY. Hair color is not an IDENTITY.

How about oppression against the poor?

Poor is not an identity. That can change in an instant.

I would love to trade places with Donald Trump, but it isn't going to happen, and if you think that you can pass a law that says that Monk Brendan (or Tattered Soul) gets an income of One Million dollars a year, and Donald Trump (or any of the other million or billionaires) has to live on my SSI and Food Stamps, then you have been smoking too much of whatever, and you need to have your lithium dosage fixed.

No I haven't been smoking too much anything. The OP asked what would make race relations more palatable and I provided a way. People COULD choose to switch privilege, especially the ones who claim there is no disproportionate oppression of minorities. People COULD switch privilege of rich and poor.

But, people are scared and unwilling to be confronted with such a thing. In reality, it may be useless, but that is a commentary on HUMANITY, not the quality of the thought experiment.

Humanity is the sick one - choosing to continue to ignore the cries and complaints of its own citizens while admonishing those who cry out. It is actually embarrassing and dishonerable.

Excuses can continue to be made, but they kernel from human apathy, hate and fear.


I bet you Christ would switch his role as the Privileged [Son of] God, and humiliate Himself as human to better understand, empathize and relate to them.

OH, WAIT...

 

[Dionne005]

This forum is some type of mess isn't it Tattered Soul? There is no hope, especially since this is supposedly a Christian forum. I personally think that since we are in the end times anything negative could honestly happen.

 

[Hetta]

...ignoring is a bit offensive when someone is in pain.

QFT

 

[Marvin Knox]

Man I'm done explaining to you Marvin. Maybe someone else will lead you on the right direction.........................................

Apparently you're done "explaining" to me before you've even started.

That's because nothing you have said to me has anything whatsoever to do with the things I said in my original post.

This last post represented by me with..............................is a prime example of your attempted slight of hand.

You obviously don't want a civil discussion about real solutions to real problems.

You've just been on a racially motivated rant since you joined with me.

Like I said before - you're part of the problem and not part of the solution to the problem.

You're welcome to it.