(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[bugkiller]

WHEN will it change?


Doesn't the verses you quoted say;

one jot or tittle WILL NOT pass away from the law?



17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Jesus did not give all the details inverse 18 especially about what all things were. Jesus give the vital details in LK 24:44 -
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The clarifying words are bolded in blue. Those words (peri emou) appear in the Greek version.

I understand the strong desire to eliminate that text. In all the years I have posted here no one has ever shown the text as polluted. There are other verses like Heb 7:12 which prove jots and tittles of the law have passed.

Obviously you heard this somewhere in the world.

Don't believe it!

Why in Revelation does the Dragon make war against those that KEEP the 10 commandments?

The verse referred to does not say "ten commandments." Here is the verse -

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God's Word has been added to so it can mean something it does not say. The commandment of God is found in I Jn 3:23. More specifics can be found in John's Gospel which is also ignored.

What is the testimony of Jesus?

THE REMNANT ARE the remnant, BECAUSE THEY keep the commandments and have the Testimony of Christ.

And it would appear that those with wisdom can easily spot the players on God's team, and the unwitting players on Satan's team.

Yes for those who are believers in Jesus. No for those who refuse to accept the testimony (words) of Jesus.

Just look for the ones who make war on keeping the 10 Commandments.

No, look for those who keep the words of Jesus and not Moses. One cannot claim to love one thing (Jesus) and follow another (the law).

A woman is not permited to have two husbands, much less have a relationship with a dead one Rom 7.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And no "gentiles" under the New Covenant in our POV????

No "gentiles" in Romans 2 accounted as Jews-- in your POV??

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.



So then you do claim to be a Jew? Romans 2

A child of the promise ? ... Romans 9

The chapter is not about the promise given to Abraham concerning the blessing of all nations. So yes I am a child of the promise given to Abraham but not a Jew.

How then do you know that this is not what we also see in Rev 7 - the 144,000???

True - but in the examples I give above it is gentiles-by-birth that are being called Jews.

Rom 2 makes no such claim.

bugkiller

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

There is no Scripture saying gentiles would be graft into Israel. The verse above says "among them." It also says partaketh of the "Root." That matches Jesus being the vine and the believers being the branches found in Jn 10.

bugkiller

I stand corrected,

Gentiles would not be grafted INTO Israel, . . .

gentiles would be grafted AMONG ISRAEL.



SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, not the Country in the Middle East called Israel.

Which keep the Commandments of God

and have the Testimony of Christ(leaves out fleshly Jews in middle east does it not?)

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

What is the testimony of Jesus?Yes for those who are believers in Jesus. No for those who refuse to accept the testimony (words) of Jesus.No, look for those who keep the words of Jesus and not Moses. One cannot claim to love one thing (Jesus) and follow another (the law).


bugkiller

EVEN IF the Testimony of Jesus VERIFIES which COMMANDMENTS the Remnant are to keep to inherit ETERNAL LIFE?

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he(JESUS) said(TESTIFIED) unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which?

Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Isn't the TESTIMONY OF JESUS to KEEP the 10 Commandments since He NAMED THEM?



You confuse the Law of Moses when you think to combined the Law of Moses with the 10 Commandments. They are separate and independent.



And Jesus ONLY SAID

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,

that all things must be fulfilled, which were

written in the law of Moses,
(10 Commandments are not mentioned in this verse because THE LAW OF MOSES was a different set of STATUTES WRITTEN by the Hand of Moses)

and in the prophets, concerning me

and in the psalms, concerning me.


IF you wish to dispute the Testimony of Jesus, that is your prerogative.

 

[klutedavid]

EVEN IF the Testimony of Jesus VERIFIES which COMMANDMENTS the Remnant are to keep to inherit ETERNAL LIFE?

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he(JESUS) said(TESTIFIED) unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which?

Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Isn't the TESTIMONY OF JESUS to KEEP the 10 Commandments since He NAMED THEM?



You confuse the Law of Moses when you think to combined the Law of Moses with the 10 Commandments. They are separate and independent.



And Jesus ONLY SAID

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,

that all things must be fulfilled, which were

written in the law of Moses,
(10 Commandments are not mentioned in this verse because THE LAW OF MOSES was a different set of STATUTES WRITTEN by the Hand of Moses)

and in the prophets, concerning me

and in the psalms, concerning me.


IF you wish to dispute the Testimony of Jesus, that is your prerogative.

Hello Lee.

It would be helpful if you quote the verses from Matthew 19, otherwise you will confuse the readers. Also carefully read the verses underlined.

Matthew 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. 23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Loving your neighbor is a commandment that is not listed in the ten commandments. Selling your possessions and giving to the poor, is also not a listed commandment in the ten. Nor has Jesus mentioned anything about the heavyweight and widespread sins; gluttony, drunkenness, drug abuse, gambling, inappropriate content, e.t.c. Anyone who thinks that we have been told to obey the ten commandments, needs to start reading the New Testament for themselves.

The apostles realized what Jesus was saying, 'then who can be saved'.

 

[Bob S]

Hello Lee.

It would be helpful if you quote the verses from Matthew 19, otherwise you will confuse the readers. Also carefully read the verses underlined.

Matthew 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. 23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Loving your neighbor is a commandment that is not listed in the ten commandments. Selling your possessions and giving to the poor, is also not a listed commandment in the ten. Nor has Jesus mentioned anything about the heavyweight and widespread sins; gluttony, drunkenness, drug abuse, gambling, inappropriate content, e.t.c. Anyone who thinks that we have been told to obey the ten commandments, needs to start reading the New Testament for themselves.

The apostles realized what Jesus was saying, 'then who can be saved'.

Great post KW, it seems that some do not understand that Jesus had yet to proclaim the fullness of the new covenant. He was born under the law and lived and taught the law. None of the laws could save an Israelite. They were never meant to be a way of salvation. The key words in the advice Jesus gave to the rich young man was "come follow Me".

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Hello Lee.

Loving your neighbor is a commandment that is not listed in the ten commandments. Selling your possessions and giving to the poor, is also not a listed commandment in the ten. Nor has Jesus mentioned anything about the heavyweight and widespread sins; gluttony, drunkenness, drug abuse, gambling, inappropriate content, e.t.c. Anyone who thinks that we have been told to obey the ten commandments, needs to start reading the New Testament for themselves.

The apostles realized what Jesus was saying, 'then who can be saved'.

Actually, if one considers;

The SPIRIT of the 10 Commandments IS TO LOVE.

IF YOU LOVE SOMEONE,

would you;
Kill them?
Steal from them
Lie about them?

Christ just simplified the 10 Commandments general theme

THOU SHALT LOVE!

When my 17 year old virgin stepdaughter was violently raped by 3 young men a month ago, that has been the greatest test for me to love.

But all of life is a test.

But some tests are REALLY TOUGH!

Thank you for your thoughtful comments

 

[Bob S]

IF God's chosen People could fly over the wall, why would there be a gate with an Angel next to it?


Does what is written matter, or what we make up?

Are we dealing with fairy tales or reality?

Boy, I guess I really stirred up the bee hive. I fail to see why you are so upset with the fact that Jesus will lead us into the Holy City. Jesus is coming for us: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It is written in New Testament Scripture that the SPIRITUAL House of Israel would be open up for SPIRITUAL inclusion of gentiles.

Thus allowing gentiles to BECOME the SPIRITUAL Seed of Abraham.

In the ENTIRE text of Scripture, God is always referred to as;


The God of Israel.

Matthew 15:31
Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.


Luke 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,


John 1:49
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.


Acts 10:36
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)


Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:


Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, ofthe tribe of Benjamin.


Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


Revelation 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:




There is too much Scriptural evidence to support gentiles were to be GRAFTED into Israel.

Romans 11:17
And if some of the branches(of Israel) be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree(gentile), wert grafted in among them(Israel), and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree(Israel);



I try not to make it my concern about any worldly religion and what deviation from truth they choose to believe and teach as truth.


According to Scripture;

-God's everlasting covenant(s)[there are several] is, was, and always WILL BE with HIS chosen people; ISRAEL,

11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Gentiles and Jews become children Of God by believing in the Son. We are grafted into the Son by our belief. We are all born of God. Jesus chosen didn't believe and rejected Him. All who come to Jesus are His chosen.

According to Scripture;
- WE can be Spiritually included among the remnant of Israel, IF WE;

- keep the commandments of God,

- and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

The above verse from the words of John the Baptist explains how we are included and it is by believing Jesus is the Savior and 1Jn3:19-24 tells us that His commandments are to believe and love others as he taught and commanded us to do. 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman(Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Is Jesus God? Is John wrong in telling us we belong to the truth if we believe and love as Jesus taught us to do? Do you see a "10" in front of commandments in verse 17 of Rev12?

According to Scripture;
-and thereby enter in through one of the 12 gates of New Jerusalem

According to scripture the 12 tribes rejected Jesus and in doing so rejects salvation. All the gates will be open to all who believe and love our fellow man as Jesus taught us to do.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Boy, I guess I really stirred up the bee hive. I fail to see why you are so upset with the fact that Jesus will lead us into the Holy City. Jesus is coming for us: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Gentiles and Jews become children Of God by believing in the Son. We are grafted into the Son by our belief. We are all born of God. Jesus chosen didn't believe and rejected Him. All who come to Jesus are His chosen.



The above verse from the words of John the Baptist explains how we are included and it is by believing Jesus is the Savior and 1Jn3:19-24 tells us that His commandments are to believe and love others as he taught and commanded us to do. 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Is Jesus God? Is John wrong in telling us we belong to the truth if we believe and love as Jesus taught us to do? Do you see a "10" in front of commandments in verse 17 of Rev12?



According to scripture the 12 tribes rejected Jesus and in doing so rejects salvation. All the gates will be open to all who believe and love our fellow man as Jesus taught us to do.

You didn't stir a bee hive.

Satan did that when he called God a liar to His face.

Then there was war in Heaven.

And Satan can ONLY get at God, by causing the Children of God to believe Satan over the words of God, just as Adam and Eve believed the word of Satan over the word of God.

It is more important to believe truth, than just to believe.

And if we believe truth, will act upon truth.

If we believe the great deceiver, we act on his deceptions.

But right now, in this world, what each of us speak is just one more version of the truth.

The world has a bottomless pit of versions of the truth.


But when the 144,000 firstfruits are revealed, THEN the world will know which version of the truth, was actually THE TRUTH.

Until then,

Have a good day Bob,

and thank you for the conversation.

P.S.
Here is the ACTUAL non-paraphrased verses of 1 John 3 compared to what you quoted.

Seeking versions of Scripture to make truth fit into what we want the truth to be, is a dangerous road.

But that is your business and not mine brother.


19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

You posted;
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:



20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

you posted;
20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.



21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

You posted;
21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God



22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

You posted;
22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.



23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

You posted;
23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.



24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

You posted;
24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

 

[Bob S]

You didn't stir a bee hive.

Satan did that when he called God a liar to His face.

Then there was war in Heaven.

And Satan can ONLY get at God, by causing the Children of God to believe Satan over the words of God, just as Adam and Eve believed the word of Satan over the word of God.

It is more important to believe truth, than just to believe.

And if we believe truth, will act upon truth.

If we believe the great deceiver, we act on his deceptions.

But right now, in this world, what each of us speak is just one more version of the truth.

The world has a bottomless pit of versions of the truth.


But when the 144,000 firstfruits are revealed, THEN the world will know which version of the truth, was actually THE TRUTH.

Until then,

Have a good day Bob,

and thank you for the conversation.

P.S.
Here is the ACTUAL non-paraphrased verses of 1 John 3 compared to what you quoted.

Seeking versions of Scripture to make truth fit into what we want the truth to be, is a dangerous road.

But that is your business and not mine brother.


19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

You posted;
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:



20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

you posted;
20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.



21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

You posted;
21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God



22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

You posted;
22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.



23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

You posted;
23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.



24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

You posted;
24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Hi Lee, what is the difference in the translations. If there is which one is correct? Why is it that some people claim that the King James version is more Holy than other translations?

 

[bugkiller]

I stand corrected,

Gentiles would not be grafted INTO Israel, . . .

gentiles would be grafted AMONG ISRAEL.



SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, not the Country in the Middle East called Israel.

Which keep the Commandments of God

and have the Testimony of Christ(leaves out fleshly Jews in middle east does it not?)

There is no such thing as spiritual Israel.

bugkiller

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Hi Lee, what is the difference in the translations. If there is which one is correct? Why is it that some people claim that the King James version is more Holy than other translations?

Hi Bob!

In Scripture, EVERY WORD is used explicitly to impart a certain understanding.

Revelation 22 carries a curse for anyone tampering with the wording of Revelation;

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.




The KJV has proven over time and extensive scrutiny to be a very accurate translation.

When men
who have NO KNOWLEDGE of the truth

think there is NO HARM in changing wording in Scripture

It changes the message.



You do realize, or maybe you don't, that Satan has had 2000 years to corrupt the true message.


If Scripture states the whole(lacking no part) world(human race) is deceived(accepts the invalid as true and valid), that WOULD include every RECOGNIZED Worldly religious denomination, would it not?


For it was not God that caused the entire Christian world to observe Sunday.

That was done by a man(not Jesus)

who claims to be the equal of Jesus.

and it IS documented History.


Not even Stephen King could conjure up such a diabolical story!

No speculation, no theories, no conjecture.

Simply the TESTIMONY of Five witness's

If your interested;
IDENTIFYING Daniel's 4th Beast ("Little Horn") A.K.A. -Revelation 17's Harlot Babylon

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

There is no such thing as spiritual Israel.

bugkiller

Prove it!

 

[Swan7]

Isn't that like saying there is no such thing as a spiritual Babylon...? If so, what about spiritual giants? :o

 

[bugkiller]

Prove it!

No you prove there is. Its your idea. Rom 2 will not support you. Paul is not talking about Israel.

I fully understand your need for there to be some kind of Israel Christians are part of. The OT covenant of Sinai you wish to subject Christians to is never applied to Christians.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

EVEN IF the Testimony of Jesus VERIFIES which COMMANDMENTS the Remnant are to keep to inherit ETERNAL LIFE?

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

What did the person ask? What does the Scripture say? How does one secure eternal life? Did Abraham secure eternal life by the law or faith? What about Abel, Enoch, Noah? Do not forget Isaac, Jacob (the deceiver), Joseph, Moses (the murderer),David (the adulterer and murderer), Rahab (the harlot), or Samson. None of these kept the law. Some because they did not have it and others by direct wilful violation. Psalms says there are none that do good. Our righteousness is worse than filthy rags. All sinned. Did I leave something out? Probably. These are just off the top of my mind. Surely you know well the passages I have in mind with the above statements, but let me throw in -

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2 and -

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Which statement of Jesus is the truth?

17 And he(JESUS) said(TESTIFIED) unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which?

Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

It is obvious after considering my above statements this event is grossly misunderstood. Jesus gave a fool his required answer and he left sorrowfully, why? Do you think thieves and robbers will enter heaven? I dare say no.

Isn't the TESTIMONY OF JESUS to KEEP the 10 Commandments since He NAMED THEM?

Considering my above comments what do you really think? Are those 10 Cs the commandments of Jesus? Not according to JN 1:17 or 10:15.

You confuse the Law of Moses when you think to combined the Law of Moses with the 10 Commandments. They are separate and independent.

Yet even the Pharisees agreed with Jesus when Jesus said a commandment you call of Moses is greater than any of the 10 Cs. Amazing. Two notable Jews say it is all the law or nothing, no exceptions.

And Jesus ONLY SAID

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,

that all things must be fulfilled, which were

written in the law of Moses,
(10 Commandments are not mentioned in this verse because THE LAW OF MOSES was a different set of STATUTES WRITTEN by the Hand of Moses)

and in the prophets, concerning me

and in the psalms, concerning me.

I cannot understand why you try to snooker me with this. What were the instructions given to Moses? Did Moses indeed make up everything but stone tablets? What exactly makes you think he told the truth about them if the rest is his imagination? Even if you had the tablets, it would change nothing.

IF you wish to dispute the Testimony of Jesus, that is your prerogative.

Who is disputing what? Are the passages I mention and quoted true or not?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Actually, if one considers;

The SPIRIT of the 10 Commandments IS TO LOVE.

IF YOU LOVE SOMEONE,

would you;
Kill them?
Steal from them
Lie about them?

Christ just simplified the 10 Commandments general theme

THOU SHALT LOVE!

When my 17 year old virgin stepdaughter was violently raped by 3 young men a month ago, that has been the greatest test for me to love.

But all of life is a test.

But some tests are REALLY TOUGH!

Thank you for your thoughtful comments

Jn 13:34 is better and easier than following the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You didn't stir a bee hive.

Satan did that when he called God a liar to His face.

Then there was war in Heaven.

And Satan can ONLY get at God, by causing the Children of God to believe Satan over the words of God, just as Adam and Eve believed the word of Satan over the word of God.

It is more important to believe truth, than just to believe.

And if we believe truth, will act upon truth.

If we believe the great deceiver, we act on his deceptions.

But right now, in this world, what each of us speak is just one more version of the truth.

The world has a bottomless pit of versions of the truth.


But when the 144,000 firstfruits are revealed, THEN the world will know which version of the truth, was actually THE TRUTH.

Until then,

Have a good day Bob,

and thank you for the conversation.

P.S.
Here is the ACTUAL non-paraphrased verses of 1 John 3 compared to what you quoted.

Seeking versions of Scripture to make truth fit into what we want the truth to be, is a dangerous road.

But that is your business and not mine brother.


19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

You posted;
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:



20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

you posted;
20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.



21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

You posted;
21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God



22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

You posted;
22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.



23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

You posted;
23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.



24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

You posted;
24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

What is your disagreement?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Now that's a real good debate response. NO comment on the fold. Buggy's explanation must have been right on target.

I wonder why there was no comment on the fold. Instead all I got was a goad.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Because the 144,000 are Jewish only, the text is not discussing Gentiles.

And no "gentiles" under the New Covenant in our POV????

No "gentiles" in Romans 2 accounted as Jews-- in your POV??

Rom 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

There are two different realms spoken of in the scripture, one is the earthly realm, i.e., physical Israel, the other is in the spiritual realm, a spiritual Israel. These two realms have nothing in common, one was a mere shadow realm, a temporary earthly nation of Israel. The other is the true spiritual reality, a spiritual nation, an eternal kingdom in Christ.

So then you do claim to be a Jew? Romans 2

A child of the promise ? ... Romans 9

How then do you know that this is not what we also see in Rev 7 - the 144,000???

Hello Bob.

If you have Jewish parents then you are Jewish by birth.

True - but in the examples I give above it is gentiles-by-birth that are being called Jews.

I am a Gentile by birth

Then can you see yourself in those verses above?

Gentiles were never under the letter of the law,

It has always been a sin for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" and we both know it.

hence, they were not required to obey the law.

nonsense.

Even in the NT - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Even in the NT "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Even in the NT

James 2
"8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" James 2

The chapter is not about the promise given to Abraham concerning the blessing of all nations. So yes I am a child of the promise given to Abraham but not a Jew.Rom 2 makes no such claim.

bugkiller

Until you read Rom 2 and Rom 9