(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[ToBeLoved]

It's not a false accusation. I've seen it many times - some directly say it, some indirectly say it

The Messiah taught his followers to obey the law. If anybody teaches that we are not supposed to obey the law, then they're going against what the Messiah said. And if they say that his followers are not supposed to obey the law, then they're making him out to be a liar, and are probably following another "Messiah", whom I would say is the anti-Messiah, aka the man of lawlessness

How do you explain Matthew 23 then, since the Pharisee's were the teachers of the Law?

Jesus wasn't smart enough to clarify what He MEANT when He WROTE the Law?

You remind me of the Pharisee's who told God what He meant when he WROTE the law to begin with. Jesus said there were 'weightier' matters of the Law. That there was to be a spirtual progression along with obedience. Faith was to be a fruit of the weightier matter

 

[Trumpeter2]

YESHUA's commandments, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses. We've said this over and over. We are to obey Yeshua's commandments in the New Covenant.

Read this book in context to see that He is talking about HIS commands, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

The two previous verses make it clear which commandments are being talked about:

Mat 5:17 - “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 - “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

 

[FreeAtLast]

The two previous verses make it clear which commandments are being talked about:

Mat 5:17 - “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 - “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

YES, they do, thank you for proving my point that He was speaking of HIS commands in the New Covenant.

Yeshua told us that He FULFILLED the Old Covenant Law of Moses and the Prophets! To abolish means to thrown away, destroy. He did not do that, the fulfilled prophecies still stand to show us that Yeshua fulfilled them. They are not abolished, but since Yeshua s completed the Messianic prophecies (only He could), there is no more reason to think we need to keep looking for the Messiah.

The same with the Old Covenant Law of Moses. He FULFILLED them completely. They stand to show us that Yeshua fulfilled them so we don't need to adhere to them any longer. And in fact, He gave us His NEW Covenant to replace the Old. So, again, thank you for proving my point.

And yes, HE fulfilled the Law and it is finished as He said on the Cross.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Luke 22:20.

 

[Dkh587]

How do you explain Matthew 23 then, since the Pharisee's were the teachers of the Law?

Jesus wasn't smart enough to clarify what He MEANT when He WROTE the Law?

You remind me of the Pharisee's who told God what He meant when he WROTE the law to begin with. Jesus said there were 'weightier' matters of the Law. That there was to be a spirtual progression along with obedience. Faith was to be a fruit of the weightier matter

The Messiah is teaching his followers to obey the law but without hypocrisy. The Pharisees were major hypocrites

They taught the law, but they didn't really obey the law. the Messiah was saying, do what they tell you(obey the law), but don't follow after their example, which is teaching the law, but not doing the law.

Matthew 23 is a great example of the Messiah teaching us, his followers, to obey the law. I'm glad you posted it.

 

[FreeAtLast]

The Messiah is teaching his followers to obey the law but without hypocrisy. The Pharisees were major hypocrites

They taught the law, but they didn't really obey the law. the Messiah was saying, do what they tell you(obey the law), but don't follow after their example, which is teaching the law, but not doing the law.

Matthew 23 is a great example of the Messiah teaching us, his followers, to obey the law. I'm glad you posted it.

Actually, Yeshua is speaking of following HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant, not telling us to follow the Old Covenant Law of Moses. Proper Bible exegesis.

 

[Dkh587]

These are out and out lies, flaming and bearing false witness. No one here says Yeshua teaches or we support disobeying G-d. It is a violation of this board's rules regarding flaming, goading and bearing false witness. Please cease or it will be reported.

If you wish to have a civil discussion on this and why you are wrong, I am happy to oblige once you stop bearing false witness.

I guess we cant go much further in regards to this discussion anymore, since you are falsely accusing me of falsely accusing other people. I would love to chat about this, but i don't like to go in circles for too long.

 

[Dkh587]

Actually, Yeshua is speaking of following HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant, not telling us to follow the Old Covenant Law of Moses. Proper Bible exegesis.

That's not what Matthew 23 says. The Messiah is flat out telling his followers(which includes us) to obey the law of Moses.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I guess we cant go much further in regards to this discussion anymore, since you are falsely accusing me of falsely accusing other people. I would love to chat about this, but i don't like to go in circles for too long.

You cannot discuss this as long as you are falsely accusing born again Believers in G-d of promoting disobedience to G-d and saying we are teaching that Yeshua taught disobedience.

Cease those accusations and we can chat.

 

[Dkh587]

You cannot discuss this as long as you are falsely accusing born again Believers in G-d of promoting disobedience to G-d ans saying we are teaching that Yeshua taught disobedience.

Cease those accusations and we can chat.

If you teach against obeying the law, then you are teaching disobedience to God. Messiah taught obedience to the law - anybody teaching otherwise is teaching disobedience

 

[FreeAtLast]

Ended conversation.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Ended conversation

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Messiah is teaching his followers to obey the law but without hypocrisy. The Pharisees were major hypocrites

They taught the law, but they didn't really obey the law. the Messiah was saying, do what they tell you(obey the law), but don't follow after their example, which is teaching the law, but not doing the law.

Matthew 23 is a great example of the Messiah teaching us, his followers, to obey the law. I'm glad you posted it.

To 90% of people, there seemed lilttle wrong with what the Pharisee's were doing. The Law was to be obeyed, so they either obeyed it or did not.

As a matter of fact, the Pharisee's used God's Own religion to keep them politically in line.

The problem with Jesus, is being GOD, He saw their hearts. He knew WHY and the motivations. But the average person did not know their hearts.

 

[Dig4truth]

YESHUA's commandments, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses. We've said this over and over. We are to obey Yeshua's commandments in the New Covenant.

Read this book in context to see that He is talking about HIS commands, not the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

You know what else we've said over and over? They CANNOT be different laws!

 

[Dig4truth]

If you teach against obeying the law, then you are teaching disobedience to God. Messiah taught obedience to the law - anybody teaching otherwise is teaching disobedience

So simple and so true.

 

[FreeAtLast]

You know what else we've said over and over? They CANNOT be different laws!

Yes, there CAN be because Jeremiah prophecies that the NEW Covenant would NOT be the same as the Old Covenant, which contained the Law of Moses. Jeremiah 31:13-34 and Yeshua said He fulfilled that prophecy. Luke 22:20. I follow Yeshua, and G-d's Word, not man's opinion.

So you can say what you like over and over, but if it disagrees with Scripture, repeating it doesn't make it true.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, there CAN be because Jeremiah prophecies that the NEW Covenant would NOT be the same as the Old Covenant, which contained the Law of Moses. Jeremiah 31:13-34 and Yeshua said He fulfilled that prophecy. Luke 22:20. I follow Yeshua, and G-d's Word, not man's opinion.

So you can say what you like over and over, but if it disagrees with Scripture, repeating it doesn't make it true.

Right. God Himself also called it a new and better Covenant. So if it's the same, then it's not better.

 

[HARK!]

To 90% of people, there seemed lilttle wrong with what the Pharisee's were doing. The Law was to be obeyed, so they either obeyed it or did not.

Matthew 5:20 (CLV)

For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens

 

[FreeAtLast]

Matthew 5:20 (CLV)

For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens

In CONTEXT, it is clear that Yeshua is speaking of following HIS commands to enter the Kingdom of G-d as this entire passage, Matthew 5, is Yeshua giving His commands. Commands that the Pharisees and Pharisees did not adhere to, so we are to EXCEED their righteousness and obey Yeshua to be born again and follow HIS commands to enter the Kingdom Of G-d.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Matthew 5:20 (CLV)

For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens

And most people alive at that time did not have the chance to hear Jesus personally speak.

Now, after the fact, we know what is written in scripture.

I stand by my 90% of the people thought the Pharisee's followed the Law that lived during that time.

 

[HARK!]

And most people alive at that time did not have the chance to hear Jesus personally speak.

Now, after the fact, we know what is written in scripture.

I stand by my 90% of the people thought the Pharisee's followed the Law that lived during that time.

Which reaffirms to me, that argumentum ad populum isn't a valid argument.