[MOVED] End of the world predictions are a dime a dozen and always wrong. :)

[Four Angels Standing]

There was a pastor that made quite a nice living predicting the end of the world.
The daughter of a woman that had willed all her assets to him sued to block the estate transfer but lost. I could see her point. After all, the world's going to end on a certain date that same year. How is it that the pastor needs all that money and land?

No one will know the day or hour the Son of Man returns. Nor would we know the date for the end of the world even with the seeming portends now taking place. And as they have in the past. But we're still here.
Live your life as if Jesus is coming tomorrow. He may, but till then, live your life.

 

[eclipsenow]

None of the numbers in Revelation are literal!
Prove it!

The whole book sounds pretty much the same, with strange animals and numbers and images. If you read the book as Jesus literally being a Lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes, then that's a whole new cult you've just started and good luck with that! But if you say "Of course that's symbolic..." then your conundrum is to explain why on earth you read one bit of it as a metaphor and another bit literally. Apocalyptic Symbolism is a biblical genre you should recognise when you see it. It started in Daniel's visions, and then became a Jewish genre around 200BC to 200AD. This is a good little book from Dr John Dickson, with a Phd in History and also a theologian. He'll help you understand it. But you should also be able to recognise theologically significant numbers from the rest of scripture.

https://www.koorong.com/search/product/666-and-all-that-john-dickson-greg-clarke/9781921137808.jhtml

 

[eclipsenow]

Just what in Revelation do you believe is unfulfilled? Please list the verses if any that you believe haven’t happened as yet. Which parts apply to you?​

The whole book is about themes that apply to all Christians in all ages: beast governments, the temptations of worldly riches and power, natural disasters and other signs of God's judgement on this age, etc. All with the gospel declaration that we are to trust in Him as we await his return, and keep in mind his ultimate judgement.

On what authority do you determine we cannot take it literal?​

Jesus not having 7 eyes and 7 horns might be a good hint! It's about respect for the various genres of literature within the bible, and making sure I'm not applying my own blinkers to God's word: blinkers that in this case are more likely to come from Hollywood than anything logical or biblical. Ever since the Omen people have been increasingly applying a (largely self focused) 'my generation' futurist reading of Revelation. It makes the bulk of the book irrelevant to John's generation and 2000 years of Christians until that last, last, lucky last generation that gets to finally read this part of God's word as applying to THEM. What a load of rubbish! How were John's generation going to obey it again?

 

[Postvieww]

Just what in Revelation do you believe is unfulfilled? Please list the verses if any that you believe haven’t happened as yet. Which parts apply to you?​

The whole book is about themes that apply to all Christians in all ages: beast governments, the temptations of worldly riches and power, natural disasters and other signs of God's judgement on this age, etc. All with the gospel declaration that we are to trust in Him as we await his return, and keep in mind his ultimate judgement.

On what authority do you determine we cannot take it literal?​

Jesus not having 7 eyes and 7 horns might be a good hint! It's about respect for the various genres of literature within the bible, and making sure I'm not applying my own blinkers to God's word: blinkers that in this case are more likely to come from Hollywood than anything logical or biblical. Ever since the Omen people have been increasingly applying a (largely self focused) 'my generation' futurist reading of Revelation. It makes the bulk of the book irrelevant to John's generation and 2000 years of Christians until that last, last, lucky last generation that gets to finally read this part of God's word as applying to THEM. What a load of rubbish! How were John's generation going to obey it again?

Let me ask the same question a different way. Since I believe you have said you believe Jesus will come back at some point in the future, on what specific scripture or scriptures do you base that belief ?

 

[eclipsenow]

Let me ask the same question a different way. Since I believe you have said you believe Jesus will come back at some point in the future, on what specific scripture or scriptures do you base that belief ?

Answer the questions I put to you first.

 

[Postvieww]

Answer the questions I put to you first.

This is the only one I can find If I’ve missed something else restate it.

Postvieww,

so if the 'future' mark of the beast of Rev 13 isn't relevant to John's generation, just how much of Revelation is relevant to John's generation? What were they meant to do with this book again? Throw it in the draw? Obey the first 2 or 3 chapters and just dump the rest?

Specifically 1,2, &3 were particularly relevant to the people of John’s day. Chapter 4 starts the vision. I believe parts of 4 and 5 are in Johns past and show Jesus’s arrival in heaven at the time of His ascension, Rev 5:5. Chapter 6 starts the seals some believe Jesus opened them immediately on receiving them I’m not sure the text bears that out. My personal opinion is we are at or in the 5th seal and near the 6th. I also believe some of the trumpets have sounded and the vials are yet to come. It is my opinion seals, trumpets and vials overlap in some way and the book of Revelation is not in complete chronological order. Without going verse by verse that is the best I can answer your question. There is plenty for them to obey in the letters to the churches of that day.

Now on what specific scripture or scriptures do you base your belief Jesus will return in our future?

 

[Luke17:37]

Live your life as if Jesus is coming tomorrow. He may, but till then, live your life.

Good advice, except we could go to Him (death), but He isn't coming today or tomorrow:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

[Postvieww]

Haha... somehow I doubt that lol!



This does not make me a full preterist.

Resurrection is a tricky topic because the bible uses the term "resurrection" of national restorations, personal salvation/baptism, the transfer of departed souls in the O.T. Hades into God's heaven, and the final state of all things.

As A Catholic, I still Hold to a future resurrection.

Now hopefully you'll return the favor:

You quoted a good chunk of my post where I cited several scriptures to support my conclusions about that particular passage in Matt 24.

If you would be so kind so show me, using the supporting scriptures I cited, why you believe the conclusions I have drawn about them are incorrect?

Here, just take the first section:
Matt 24:29-31 -- Christ speaks of the end signs. This passage hinges upon the apocalyptic language of the great prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, David, etc. in exactly the same way they used such language for God's judgments against nations and individuals in their own times. Compare Christ's words with God's coming to O.T. Babylon in 539BC (Isa 13:10-13, 13:1, and 13:17), God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5), God's coming to Egypt in 572BC (Ez 32:7-11), God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1). So, in like manner, Jesus Christ is now also seen as coming in that same glory of the Father (cf. Matt 16:27; John 17:5). Jesus came to first-century Israel and demolished it in the same glory as the Father's cloud-comings in the OT era (cf.Isaiah 19:1-2). Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. (Matthew 21:40-41,45)

Also, when you get a chance, I posed several as yet un answered questions to you in my post #162 Above. Before you rerurn with another list of questions for me, it would be courteous for you to at least make an attempt at answering mine. Makes this more of a conversation between us and less of an inquisition or interrogation of me by you.

Parousia70 Post #173

Postvieww said: ↑

Just one question

Haha... somehow I doubt that lol!


does this make you a full preterist, or are you still holding out for a future resurrection?

This does not make me a full preterist.


Resurrection is a tricky topic because the bible uses the term "resurrection" of national restorations, personal salvation/baptism, the transferof departed souls in the O.T. Hades into God's heaven, and the final state of all things.

All of those resurrection allow you some wiggle room as well. How many resurrections are yet future scripture references please.

As A Catholic, I still Hold to a future resurrection.

Now hopefully you'll return the favor:


You quoted a good chunk of my post where I cited several scriptures to support my conclusions about that particular passage in Matt 24.


If you would be so kind so show me, using the supporting scriptures I cited, why you believe the conclusions I have drawn about them are incorrect?


Here, just take the first section:

Matt 24:29-31 -- Christ speaks of the end signs. This passage hinges upon the apocalyptic language of the great prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, David, etc. in exactly the same way they used such language for God's judgments against nations and individuals in their own times.

Opinion. So bottom line you believe Matt. 24: 29-31 has already happened? If so we will never agree on that.

Compare Christ's words with God's coming to O.T. Babylon in 539BC (Isa 13:10-13, 13:1, and 13:17),

I believe Isaiah 13 is yet future, related to Rev 18. I assume you disagree so what is Rev. 18 about?

God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5),

Prophetic as well

God's coming to Egypt in 572BC (Ez 32:7-11),

Wording in Ezek. Proves nothing about Matt.

God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1).

Wording in Nahum 1 proves nothing about Matt.

So, in like manner, Jesus Christ is now also seen as coming in that same glory of the Father (cf. Matt 16:27;

Yet future “shall come”

John 17:5). Jesus came to first-century Israel and demolished it in the same glory as the Father's cloud-comings in the OT era (cf.Isaiah 19:1-2).

Don’t see how you got that out of John 17:5? Jesus came?

Isaiah 19 Yet future.

Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. (Matthew 21:40-41,45)

I do not believe you have proved anything here we have to many differences of opinion.

 

[parousia70]

I believe Isaiah 13 is yet future, related to Rev 18.

In Isaiah 13:1-13, this is not an oracle against the universe or world, but against the nation of Babylon in the 500's BC. Notice verse 13, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place."

Now remember, he is speaking about the destruction of Babylon, but it sounds like world wide destruction. If one is Rightfully dividing the word, the terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

Let me repeat that.

If one is rightly diving the word, the terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

The spectrum of language surely cannot go outside the land of Babylon.

This is an historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon (Isaiah 13:17), the Babylonian world came to an end. This destruction is said in verse 6 to be from the Almighty, and the Medes constitute the means that God uses to accomplish this task. The physical heaven and earth were still in tact, but for Babylon they had collapsed. This is apocalyptic language. This is the way the scripture discusses the fall of a nation.

I assume you disagree so what is Rev. 18 about?

First Century Jerusalem of course, Whom John Calls "The Great City" "Sodom and Egypt" "where our Lord Was Crucified", and "in whom was found the Blood of the Prophets".

Jerusalem is the Great City in the book of Revelation (Rev 11:8). She is Babylon (1 Pet 5:12-13), the Harlot that rode on the Beast's back (her alliance with Ancient Rome) before the Beast turned on her and made her desolate and burned her with fire (Rev 17:16; Lk.21:20).

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations. The Hebrew/Biblical understanding of Jerusalem is that she is the "Chief of the nations" (Jeremiah 31:7; Ez 5:5), the Queen city of the earth (Lam 1:1/Rev 18:7). She, by Divine right and covenant, was appointed as the head of all nations (Deut 26:19; Deut 15:6; Deut 28:1,10-13), and the gentile kings recognized God's dwelling was at Jerusalem with the Hebrews (1 Ki 10:24; Luke 11:31; Ezra 1:2; Dan 2:47, 3:28-29, 4:1-3, 4:17, 4:34-37; Ezra 1; Ezra 4-7; Ezra 7:15,23).

The Governor of all nations (Ps. 22:28) lived in Jerusalem in his House (Ez 7:15,23), and all the kingdom, power and might over earth was His (1 Chron 29:11-12). Indeed, all kings receive their power to rule from that Divine King (Rom 13:1-2,6; John 19:11; 1 Pet 2:13-14,17; Ez 1:2; Dan 1:1-2; Dan 2:20-21; Dan 2:37-38; Dan 2:47, Dan 3:28-29; Dan 4:1-3,17,34-37.).

Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-37; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-37; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).

God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5),

Prophetic as well

Prophetic for those of Edom in the 700's BC, not prophetic for us.

God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1).

Wording in Nahum 1 proves nothing about Matt.

In Nahum 1:1-5, the subject of this judgment is Nineveh, not the physical world. "The burden of Nineveh...the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers...The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein." This is the way God describes the fall of a nation. Since this language describes the judgment of God on nations, why, when we come to the New Testament, do we make it be the destruction of the universe? It is only because we do not understand how the scripture uses this apocalyptic language.

Don’t see how you got that out of John 17:5? Jesus came?

Then try Matthew 21:33-45 - Surely you don't believe THIS is yet future?

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

Fulfilled? Yet Future?
Do tell.

Isaiah 19 Yet future.

Wrong. It was fulfilled in the 700's BC

Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. (Matthew 21:40-41,45)

I do not believe you have proved anything here we have to many differences of opinion.

Then Explain Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled? Yet Future?
Do tell.

 

[Postvieww]

In Isaiah 13:1-13, this is not an oracle against the universe or world, but against the nation of Babylon in the 500's BC. Notice verse 13, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place."

Now remember, he is speaking about the destruction of Babylon, but it sounds like world wide destruction. If one is Rightfully dividing the word, the terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

Let me repeat that.

If one is rightly diving the word, the terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

The spectrum of language surely cannot go outside the land of Babylon.

This is an historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon (Isaiah 13:17), the Babylonian world came to an end. This destruction is said in verse 6 to be from the Almighty, and the Medes constitute the means that God uses to accomplish this task. The physical heaven and earth were still in tact, but for Babylon they had collapsed. This is apocalyptic language. This is the way the scripture discusses the fall of a nation.



First Century Jerusalem of course, Whom John Calls "The Great City" "Sodom and Egypt" "where our Lord Was Crucified", and "in whom was found the Blood of the Prophets".

Jerusalem is the Great City in the book of Revelation (Rev 11:8). She is Babylon (1 Pet 5:12-13), the Harlot that rode on the Beast's back (her alliance with Ancient Rome) before the Beast turned on her and made her desolate and burned her with fire (Rev 17:16; Lk.21:20).

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations. The Hebrew/Biblical understanding of Jerusalem is that she is the "Chief of the nations" (Jeremiah 31:7; Ez 5:5), the Queen city of the earth (Lam 1:1/Rev 18:7). She, by Divine right and covenant, was appointed as the head of all nations (Deut 26:19; Deut 15:6; Deut 28:1,10-13), and the gentile kings recognized God's dwelling was at Jerusalem with the Hebrews (1 Ki 10:24; Luke 11:31; Ezra 1:2; Dan 2:47, 3:28-29, 4:1-3, 4:17, 4:34-37; Ezra 1; Ezra 4-7; Ezra 7:15,23).

The Governor of all nations (Ps. 22:28) lived in Jerusalem in his House (Ez 7:15,23), and all the kingdom, power and might over earth was His (1 Chron 29:11-12). Indeed, all kings receive their power to rule from that Divine King (Rom 13:1-2,6; John 19:11; 1 Pet 2:13-14,17; Ez 1:2; Dan 1:1-2; Dan 2:20-21; Dan 2:37-38; Dan 2:47, Dan 3:28-29; Dan 4:1-3,17,34-37.).

Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-37; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-37; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).



Prophetic for those of Edom in the 700's BC, not prophetic for us.



In Nahum 1:1-5, the subject of this judgment is Nineveh, not the physical world. "The burden of Nineveh...the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers...The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein." This is the way God describes the fall of a nation. Since this language describes the judgment of God on nations, why, when we come to the New Testament, do we make it be the destruction of the universe? It is only because we do not understand how the scripture uses this apocalyptic language.



Then try Matthew 21:33-45 - Surely you don't believe THIS is yet future?

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

Fulfilled? Yet Future?
Do tell.




Wrong. It was fulfilled in the 700's BC



Then Explain Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled? Yet Future?
Do tell.

Would it not be easier for you to make a list of bible passages that are not yet fulfilled.

 

[eclipsenow]

Hi Parousia,
While I'm convinced Revelation is mostly about the Roman persecution of the church, and because of that is an example to Christians in North Korea and the third world where terrible persecution is happening even now, and also has a warning to us about trusting in worldly power and wealth instead of in God, the scholars I read are convinced that part of the comfort of Revelation is that it repeatedly looks forward to Judgement Day in various apocalyptic symbols. Why shouldn't it? That the Lord will return and judge his enemies is a common theme in scripture. Indeed, the last few chapters look at Judgement Day from various points of view, from earth, from heaven (the vision of the martyrs), all illustrating various biblical themes with different images. We don't have to be afraid of it doing so, because all John is doing is reminding his generation of the gospel promise of the Lord's return. It doesn't turn Revelation into a Last Day's timetable to be predicted or guessed at any more than the gospel declaration, "Turn or burn because the Lord will return!"

 

[Hazrus]

Eclipse now, I assume you are a Syd Anglican?
If so, me too!

 

[eclipsenow]

Eclipse now, I assume you are a Syd Anglican?
If so, me too!

Yup, Sydney Reformed Evangelical, Amil, Theistic Evolutionist recognising genre differences in Genesis, and currently attending a fantastic, thriving, evangelistic Anglican church in my suburb.

 

[Postvieww]

Parousia70 said: "This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple." How many particular comings of Christ are there in scripture? Why will no one point out which coming passages are yet unfulfilled ?

 

[parousia70]

Would it not be easier for you to make a list of bible passages that are not yet fulfilled.

Certain prophesies, by their very nature, have no terminus, and are in a perpetual process of being fulfilled.

Isaiah 9:7 would be one example of a passage that will continue to be fulfilled into the future:

Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

A PERPETUAL INCREASE in His Government necessitates a PERPETUAL INCREASE in the number of those under His governance.

Revelation 22:17 would be another:

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

There is no "UNTIL X DAY" in this verse.

Now, Where's your point by point rebuttal to my post you just quoted here?

I gave a sober, reasoned, Scriptural, point by point response to your questions in that post, questions about Rev 18, Nahum 1, Isaiah 34, Isaiah 13... and though you quote those responses here, you failed to address even one point.

If your rebuttal it's non existent, I must assume it's because you don't have one, and you have acquiesced to my points therein.

Again, you may believe you have somehow been appointed to simply conduct an interrogation of me here, and are not expected to offer your rebuttals, but i'm more interested in having a discussion/debate with you, as are our readers, I'm sure.

 

[parousia70]

Parousia70 said "This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple." How many particular comings of Christ are there in scripture?

I assume you mean post incarnation? For there is record of Him coming prior... perhaps you are only after the comings "post ascension"?

Acts 26:12-18 would be one.

Acts 7:54-58 would be another

And of course Jesus "comes" whenever two or three are gathered in His name (Matthew 18:20)

As a Catholic, I affirm Jesus "comes" in each and every Eucharist, every Day.

Why will no one point out which coming passages are yet unfulfilled ?

Well, Like I pointed out in my previous post, they all have to do with the growth and spread of the Kingdom, in one form or another.

The spread of the Kingdom, the covenant, and the Law of Christ eradicates evil everywhere the gospel is taught and followed, for all dominion belongs to Christ and the Church, now and forever (Matt 28:18; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 16:18-19; Eph 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:14,27; Rev 1:5-6; 2:26-27; 5:10; 11:15). The Church's job is related to dominion and rule over all things, which includes converting people out of wickedness and darkenss into the Kingdom light (Col 1:12-14; Acts 26:18; Rev 21:24-27; 22:14-15). Individuals that are in darkness without the knowledge of the covenant (Eph 2:12) become transformed by the Spirit of God and leave behind darkness as they are translated into the light that is of Christ (Luke 2:32 Cor 4:6; 2 Tim 1:10).

All biblical expectations of the ever-expanding dominion of God's kingdom and righteousness on earth are carried out by, in, and through Christ and His Church (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:27; Lk 1:33; Eph 3:9-11,21; Heb 12:27-28; Matt 21:43; Titus 2:14; Rev 5:9-10; Rev 2:26; Matt 25:21). The Church is the very Body of Christ, the "fullness of Him that fills all in all" (Eph 1:22-23). As St Paul wrote, "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever" (Eph 3:21). God's peple must exercise dominion and teach covenantal law. The Church, ruling and reigning with Christ, must continue to bring all created things into accordance with God's law, be it individuals, families, states, governments, or any other aspect of creation. All power in heaven and earth belongs to Christ and his people (Matt 28:18-19; Matt 16:18-19).

Scripture states that the world will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33), therefore it is likely that the cosmos, and generations of procreating Human beings, in some form or another, will exist forever and ever.

That being said, The Old Testament Temple--which was itself designed to be a microcosm of the created universe--may demonstrate, by its destruction, that the created cosmos will be brought to a new consummation in our future. I have found no scriptural reason to rule out this possibility. Yet even that would not be an end of God's creation, but, rather, a new outworking of it. For sure, whatever changes God may have in store for the cosmos, the time and details have not been disclosed to men (Deut 29:29).


Now, If you please, As I have asked before, Explain your view of "The Coming of the Lord" in Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled?
Unfuflilled?

 

[Postvieww]

Certain prophesies, by their very nature, have no terminus, and are in a perpetual process of being fulfilled.

Isaiah 9:7 would be one example of a passage that will continue to be fulfilled into the future:

Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

A PERPETUAL INCREASE in His Government necessitates a PERPETUAL INCREASE in the number of those under His governance.

Revelation 22:17 would be another:

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

There is no "UNTIL X DAY" in this verse.

Now, Where's your point by point rebuttal to my post you just quoted here?

I gave a sober, reasoned, Scriptural, point by point response to your questions in that post, questions about Rev 18, Nahum 1, Isaiah 34, Isaiah 13... and though you quote those responses here, you failed to address even one point.

If your rebuttal it's non existent, I must assume it's because you don't have one, and you have acquiesced to my points therein.

Again, you may believe you have somehow been appointed to simply conduct an interrogation of me here, and are not expected to offer your rebuttals, but i'm more interested in having a discussion/debate with you, as are our readers, I'm sure.

Actually for the next couple of days I'll be on cell phone only and choose not to be involved in lengthy post. I did respond point by point on your post b4 the last one. Not trying to interrogate anyone just seemed like no one would answer the simple question.

 

[Postvieww]

I assume you mean post incarnation? For there is record of Him coming prior... perhaps you are only after the comings "post ascension"?

Acts 26:12-18 would be one.

Acts 7:54-58 would be another

And of course Jesus "comes" whenever two or three are gathered in His name (Matthew 18:20)

As a Catholic, I affirm Jesus "comes" in each and every Eucharist, every Day.



Well, Like I pointed out in my previous post, they all have to do with the growth and spread of the Kingdom, in one form or another.

The spread of the Kingdom, the covenant, and the Law of Christ eradicates evil everywhere the gospel is taught and followed, for all dominion belongs to Christ and the Church, now and forever (Matt 28:18; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 16:18-19; Eph 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:14,27; Rev 1:5-6; 2:26-27; 5:10; 11:15). The Church's job is related to dominion and rule over all things, which includes converting people out of wickedness and darkenss into the Kingdom light (Col 1:12-14; Acts 26:18; Rev 21:24-27; 22:14-15). Individuals that are in darkness without the knowledge of the covenant (Eph 2:12) become transformed by the Spirit of God and leave behind darkness as they are translated into the light that is of Christ (Luke 2:32 Cor 4:6; 2 Tim 1:10).

All biblical expectations of the ever-expanding dominion of God's kingdom and righteousness on earth are carried out by, in, and through Christ and His Church (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:27; Lk 1:33; Eph 3:9-11,21; Heb 12:27-28; Matt 21:43; Titus 2:14; Rev 5:9-10; Rev 2:26; Matt 25:21). The Church is the very Body of Christ, the "fullness of Him that fills all in all" (Eph 1:22-23). As St Paul wrote, "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever" (Eph 3:21). God's peple must exercise dominion and teach covenantal law. The Church, ruling and reigning with Christ, must continue to bring all created things into accordance with God's law, be it individuals, families, states, governments, or any other aspect of creation. All power in heaven and earth belongs to Christ and his people (Matt 28:18-19; Matt 16:18-19).

Scripture states that the world will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33), therefore it is likely that the cosmos, and generations of procreating Human beings, in some form or another, will exist forever and ever.

That being said, The Old Testament Temple--which was itself designed to be a microcosm of the created universe--may demonstrate, by its destruction, that the created cosmos will be brought to a new consummation in our future. I have found no scriptural reason to rule out this possibility. Yet even that would not be an end of God's creation, but, rather, a new outworking of it. For sure, whatever changes God may have in store for the cosmos, the time and details have not been disclosed to men (Deut 29:29).


Now, If you please, As I have asked before, Explain your view of "The Coming of the Lord" in Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled?
Unfuflilled?

Now, If you please, As I have asked before, Explain your view of "The Coming of the Lord" in Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled?
Unfuflilled? Matt:21:45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Short answer above verse tells us who it was directly for in that sense fullfilled. As with other parables there are truths that can be applied elsewhere . This "coming "would be His first physical coming. When I ask for scripture yet unfulfilled I am referring to His second physical coming for every eye to see.

 

[Postvieww]

I assume you mean post incarnation? For there is record of Him coming prior... perhaps you are only after the comings "post ascension"?

Acts 26:12-18 would be one.

Acts 7:54-58 would be another

And of course Jesus "comes" whenever two or three are gathered in His name (Matthew 18:20)

As a Catholic, I affirm Jesus "comes" in each and every Eucharist, every Day.



Well, Like I pointed out in my previous post, they all have to do with the growth and spread of the Kingdom, in one form or another.

The spread of the Kingdom, the covenant, and the Law of Christ eradicates evil everywhere the gospel is taught and followed, for all dominion belongs to Christ and the Church, now and forever (Matt 28:18; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 16:18-19; Eph 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:14,27; Rev 1:5-6; 2:26-27; 5:10; 11:15). The Church's job is related to dominion and rule over all things, which includes converting people out of wickedness and darkenss into the Kingdom light (Col 1:12-14; Acts 26:18; Rev 21:24-27; 22:14-15). Individuals that are in darkness without the knowledge of the covenant (Eph 2:12) become transformed by the Spirit of God and leave behind darkness as they are translated into the light that is of Christ (Luke 2:32 Cor 4:6; 2 Tim 1:10).

All biblical expectations of the ever-expanding dominion of God's kingdom and righteousness on earth are carried out by, in, and through Christ and His Church (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:27; Lk 1:33; Eph 3:9-11,21; Heb 12:27-28; Matt 21:43; Titus 2:14; Rev 5:9-10; Rev 2:26; Matt 25:21). The Church is the very Body of Christ, the "fullness of Him that fills all in all" (Eph 1:22-23). As St Paul wrote, "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever" (Eph 3:21). God's peple must exercise dominion and teach covenantal law. The Church, ruling and reigning with Christ, must continue to bring all created things into accordance with God's law, be it individuals, families, states, governments, or any other aspect of creation. All power in heaven and earth belongs to Christ and his people (Matt 28:18-19; Matt 16:18-19).

Scripture states that the world will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33), therefore it is likely that the cosmos, and generations of procreating Human beings, in some form or another, will exist forever and ever.

That being said, The Old Testament Temple--which was itself designed to be a microcosm of the created universe--may demonstrate, by its destruction, that the created cosmos will be brought to a new consummation in our future. I have found no scriptural reason to rule out this possibility. Yet even that would not be an end of God's creation, but, rather, a new outworking of it. For sure, whatever changes God may have in store for the cosmos, the time and details have not been disclosed to men (Deut 29:29).


Now, If you please, As I have asked before, Explain your view of "The Coming of the Lord" in Matthew 21:33-45 for us.
Fulfilled?
Unfuflilled?

Acts 26:12-18 would be one.

Acts 7:54-58 would be another

And of course Jesus "comes" whenever two or three are gathered in His name (Matthew 18:20)

As a Catholic, I affirm Jesus "comes" in each and every Eucharist, every Day.
Do you believe the coming at Eucharist to be like the ones sited in Acts or the one in Matthew? This is just a curiosity not an interrogation .

 

[eclipsenow]

Guys,
please stop writing in bold, it's hard to read.

If you want to quote someone, just indent it a few times.

Like this, a which could be a whole paragraph of the other guy's writing.​