[MOVED] Denying God's Creation because we prefer the darkness

coffee4u said:

archeoraptor? That's a bird. You want these fossils to be transitional so as to cement your belief in evolution. Did you ever even once since becoming a Christian consider that view is wrong? .
Archaeoraptor: Phony 'feathered' fossil - creation.com
Also, why is it, you or others think feathers on a dinosaur is somehow proof of them changing into a bird? God can put feathers on whatever creature he desired. We don't care if there were dinosaurs with feathers, that would simply mean God gave some feathers.

No matter what fossils are found, none of it proves evolution. Saying those features got there through evolution has no more proof them me saying God gave them feathers on day 6 when he created them. What we have is a fossil and some feathers but how it came to have them is the story around them, there is no proof as to how they came to be there.

Click to expand...

gahh thanks for the correction :> I meant Archaeopteryx :> archeoraptor was the amalgimation of a bird, and a previously unknown feathered dinosaur :>

And of course it's proof, funny how dinosaurs have feathers, particularly the group of dinosaurs that was already suspected and believed to have evolved into birds before they were found. Thats the problem with creationist, you can't accept truth of evolution, so you will come up with the most conveluted excuses for why they arn't transitional.

You ask me if I question my belief in evolution since becoming Christian, I was Christian before I accepted evolution, I actually went out to look at the evidence, as I had always just been told it was wrong and fake. Surprise Surprise, when I looked into the evidence I saw it was real.

Going uhuh to things fitting evolution doesn't work, funny how the fossils we find proving evolution show up after we already guessed how it worked. You make god out to be a liar, oh he's just randomly going to give the animals that the evidence points to them evolving into birds for what? To fasley make people accept evolution?

almost 200 years of looking and so far all the fossils, DNA, and other things point to evolution being true, nothing yet has shown it wrong. And UHUH is never going to work, you want to disprove evolution you got to actually bring evidence and not denial.

coffee4u said:

Reality is both the physical world and the spiritual world and science only touches one of those, guess which.
Science can neither measure nor predict or have any knowledge of miracles, of God or the spiritual realm, yet this is what creation was, a miracle.
Evidence is limited to the physical, so in a sense missing half of the data. Anyone doing real science knows that missing even a single piece of the data will result in incorrect conclusions.

God did create in an amazing fashion and Genesis outlines it clearly.
Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
No mention of slow evolution from some primate, but formed directly and brought to life immediately as a fully formed man all in one day.

Click to expand...

They have invented something to account for the missing half. Dark Matter. They basically say tha what we observe in the universe doesnt fit what we know so there must be something else causing a force to act on it that we cant see, touch, interact with, measure or anything else but it must be there as there is no other explanation for what is being observed. Even the name says it all. Why not call it God matter? It looks to me a lot like the creative power of God causing the universe to be in a continual state of creation, but to them there must be a physical explaination of it that disproves the existance of God. And so many Christians are desperate to believe it they wont wven question what they are being told.

loveofourlord said:

Ummmm thats exactly what archeoraptor, Ambulocetus, tiktaalik, and other animals are. Again you don't seem to have a clue what your demanding, and in typical creationist fashion, all you are is just sticking fingers in your ear going LALALALA. Explain to me how they are not trasnsitional forms.

Click to expand...

I only googled archeoraptors and everything says it is a fake. So in true evolutionist fashion you have been so desperate to prove your point you have not questioned it and it is proven that particular one is wrong. Tiktaalik has been discredited as being an ancestor of walking animals as well as it came later. Yet the person you responded to is the one going LALALA, yeah right.

For me these are mute points anyway. If all of creation has the same Creator, would you not expect Him to use the same designs across different animals? After all we are created in His image and we would do that. I dont find it far fetched God could have created various animals with some features used them in more than one creation. In the same way a painter might change what they are painting. Off the top of my head, maybe a landscape painter paints a picture with a lake in, decides he likes it and moves from countryside, to countryside with rivers and lakes, to painting water scenes only. Its evolution as you see it but has a single creator of the artwork and its their design changing over time. Or he could paint them simultaneously and people think he painted them over a course of time with evolution of his style.

So for me creation/evolution is a faith issue and not a scientific one. I take the view you can choose to believe Gods word or you can choose to believe people who want to take God out of the equation. I'm not a scientist, I am a contract manager by profession. My area of expertise is making sure that documents are written so they can only be interpreted in the way intended with no ambiguity, are clearly understood and are complete in dealing with the subject matter. It also includes trying to interpret existing contracts to suit what you want to do and your view point. Its too easy to produce arguments against both creation and evolution depending on your view point and with my work skills, I could tear either down easily enough to show they are not proven beyond doubt. I tend to experience that the ones who will unquestioningly accept what they have been told is evolutionists far more than creationists.

There is a big difference between believing in God and believing God. Its your choice.

loveofourlord said:

gahh thanks for the correction :> I meant Archaeopteryx :> archeoraptor was the amalgimation of a bird, and a previously unknown feathered dinosaur :>

Click to expand...

Archaeopteryx, Ambulocetus, tiktaalik or whatever is found, is no proof of anything, except that they existed (when the find isn't actually a hoax)
They don't come with a label saying "I evolved from X"

And of course it's proof, funny how dinosaurs have feathers, particularly the group of dinosaurs that was already suspected and believed to have evolved into birds before they were found. Thats the problem with creationist, you can't accept truth of evolution, so you will come up with the most conveluted excuses for why they arn't transitional.

Click to expand...

What proof?
So you have proof that God was not capable of putting feathers on a dinosaur?
Fossils of some dead animals are no proof of either creation or evolution, or for that matter that aliens came down and seeded the planet. The fact is the fossil, the rest is the story around how it got here.
Some people believe that.

You ask me if I question my belief in evolution since becoming Christian, I was Christian before I accepted evolution, I actually went out to look at the evidence, as I had always just been told it was wrong and fake. Surprise Surprise, when I looked into the evidence I saw it was real.

Click to expand...

I was a secular evolutionist who became a Christian and a creationist.
Becoming a creationist had nothing to do with evidence and everything to do with God's revealed word and faith.
The so-called evidence is based on looking at only the physical and a heap of assumptions.

Going uhuh to things fitting evolution doesn't work, funny how the fossils we find proving evolution show up after we already guessed how it worked. You make god out to be a liar, oh he's just randomly going to give the animals that the evidence points to them evolving into birds for what? To fasley make people accept evolution?

I'm making God out to be a lier?
If God says he created in 6 days and I say he created in 6 days, where is the lie?
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
If you are so sure your stance is Biblical let's see your scripture indicating your position.

So you see some feathers on a dinosaur that convinces you that God didn't really mean 6 days, or that he made man out of dirt, even though he said he did.
If you need evidence for creation, what about evidence for the virgin birth or the resurrection? Do you think science will find any and back that up with evidence?
The fact that creation is harmonious with God's word and many doctrines go back to Genesis such as marriage, where sin came from, no death before sin, all of which fall apart if man evolved over millions of years isn't important I guess?
So if man evolved, how did sin come into the world and when exactly did man get his spirit?
It's not really about believing in evolution vs creation, it's what that belief does to the rest of what the Bible teaches. If sin did not come about because Adam disobeyed God's directive to not eat the fruit then you need something else. Sin and death are important doctrines of the Christian faith.
Romans 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
One man who we are all descended from and his sin was the cause of death makes this a very important verse. How does millions of years of death fit in?

almost 200 years of looking and so far all the fossils, DNA, and other things point to evolution being true, nothing yet has shown it wrong. And UHUH is never going to work, you want to disprove evolution you got to actually bring evidence and not denial.

Click to expand...

The DNA says exactly the opposite.
DNA Science Disproves Human Evolution

Again you are basing what you believe solely on physical evidence. Why believe any of the Biblical miracles then? None have evidence. So Genesis is wrong but the Gospels are correct?

Click to expand...

GirdYourLoins said:

They have invented something to account for the missing half. Dark Matter. They basically say tha what we observe in the universe doesnt fit what we know so there must be something else causing a force to act on it that we cant see, touch, interact with, measure or anything else but it must be there as there is no other explanation for what is being observed. Even the name says it all. Why not call it God matter? It looks to me a lot like the creative power of God causing the universe to be in a continual state of creation, but to them there must be a physical explaination of it that disproves the existance of God. And so many Christians are desperate to believe it they wont wven question what they are being told.

Click to expand...

God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
What we are being told, is what the Bible itself teaches.
2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
If you don't believe scripture I guess you can believe whatever you want, but if you do believe that scripture is Gods word to us then you should want answers to doctrinal questions that arise if you don't accept the first book, because there are a lot of them, through both the Old and New Testament.

Feathers on a dinosaur is not against the creation account, God doesn't describe what animals he made in detail just that some were wild, livestock and creeping. There could have been all kinds of strange looking animals. A fish like creature with a crocodiles head, why not? Is there some law in the Bible saying God was not allowed to make such creatures if he so wished?

GirdYourLoins said:

They have invented something to account for the missing half. Dark Matter. They basically say tha what we observe in the universe doesnt fit what we know so there must be something else causing a force to act on it that we cant see, touch, interact with, measure or anything else but it must be there as there is no other explanation for what is being observed. Even the name says it all. Why not call it God matter? It looks to me a lot like the creative power of God causing the universe to be in a continual state of creation, but to them there must be a physical explaination of it that disproves the existance of God. And so many Christians are desperate to believe it they wont wven question what they are being told.

Click to expand...

Because thats not how science works, nor how it should work, thats just silly, god did it or it's god isn't a answer, it precludes finding a potentially real answer. Is it possible that the strangeness in the universe is god well of course, but if it's not god and something else, you just threw out doing actual science. Same with evolution or anything else, the moment you stick some part of science in a box, is the moment you stop learning about what god did.

coffee4u said:

Archaeopteryx, Ambulocetus, tiktaalik or whatever is found, is no proof of anything, except that they existed (when the find isn't actually a hoax)
They don't come with a label saying "I evolved from X"



What proof?
So you have proof that God was not capable of putting feathers on a dinosaur?
Fossils of some dead animals are no proof of either creation or evolution, or for that matter that aliens came down and seeded the planet. The fact is the fossil, the rest is the story around how it got here.
Some people believe that.



I was a secular evolutionist who became a Christian and a creationist.
Becoming a creationist had nothing to do with evidence and everything to do with God's revealed word and faith.
The so-called evidence is based on looking at only the physical and a heap of assumptions.

Click to expand...

Sorry but your answer is rediculous and childish, and not worth responding to a second time. Thats not how you learn or improve our knowledge of what god did, "Well it isn't proof." yeah, sorry if I don't accept, uhuh as evidence, by that kind of nonsense, nothing could prove anything, because all you got to do is childishly go, "Dat don't count." again, it's EVERYTHING fits the pattern that was discovered before these fossils were discovered. God just happens to be lying and making animals appear to evolve by creating them to look like they did. Rediculous and insulting to both science and god. The level to wich creationists will go to denial science is silly.

The proof god wouldn't just put feathers on dinosaurs is that would be lying and decietful.

coffee4u said:

God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
What we are being told, is what the Bible itself teaches.
2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
If you don't believe scripture I guess you can believe whatever you want, but if you do believe that scripture is Gods word to us then you should want answers to doctrinal questions that arise if you don't accept the first book, because there are a lot of them, through both the Old and New Testament.

Feathers on a dinosaur is not against the creation account, God doesn't describe what animals he made in detail just that some were wild, livestock and creeping. There could have been all kinds of strange looking animals. A fish like creature with a crocodiles head, why not? Is there some law in the Bible saying God was not allowed to make such creatures if he so wished?

Click to expand...

Your argument is wrong. First of all Genesis states that the vegetation was created on the second day, creatures of the waters and birds of the air were created on the fourth day and it wasnt until the fifth day that the creatures of the land were created. So the feathered birds by the literal wordof the bible were created before the land animals (which I interpret as including dinosaurs).

You are also failing to take account of the fact that the feathered dinosaur fossil is a proven fake, so why argue it?

loveofourlord said:

Sorry but your answer is rediculous and childish, and not worth responding to a second time. Thats not how you learn or improve our knowledge of what god did, "Well it isn't proof." yeah, sorry if I don't accept, uhuh as evidence, by that kind of nonsense, nothing could prove anything, because all you got to do is childishly go, "Dat don't count." again, it's EVERYTHING fits the pattern that was discovered before these fossils were discovered. God just happens to be lying and making animals appear to evolve by creating them to look like they did. Rediculous and insulting to both science and god. The level to wich creationists will go to denial science is silly.

The proof god wouldn't just put feathers on dinosaurs is that would be lying and decietful.

Click to expand...

Can you provide evidence of feathers on a dinosaur please.

GirdYourLoins said:

Can you provide evidence of feathers on a dinosaur please.

Click to expand...

I already posted a picture of a dinosaur with feathers.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161208121636-dinosaur-amber-2-exlarge-169.jpg



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEQWFES3vEgxsvkhaS8da5ZGY0cxR1qLf8PQ&usqp=CAU

loveofourlord said:

I already posted a picture of a dinosaur with feathers.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161208121636-dinosaur-amber-2-exlarge-169.jpg



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEQWFES3vEgxsvkhaS8da5ZGY0cxR1qLf8PQ&usqp=CAU

Click to expand...

Seeing as you are an expert, can you please explain a question. These small dinosaurs were supposed to survive the ice age by surviving underground which evolved into modern day birds, yet in other websites it says not a trace of dinosaur fossils has been found that is younger than 66m years old. And that was only a couple of minutes looking.

Actually, you know what, its really not worth discussing because you have clearly gone 100% down the route of believing mens view and I have taken the faith decision to believe God is telling the truth.

GirdYourLoins said:

Seeing as you are an expert, can you please explain a question. These small dinosaurs were supposed to survive the ice age by surviving underground which evolved into modern day birds, yet in other websites it says not a trace of dinosaur fossils has been found that is younger than 66m years old. And that was only a couple of minutes looking.

Actually, you know what, its really not worth discussing because you have clearly gone 100% down the route of believing mens view and I have taken the faith decision to believe God is telling the truth.

Click to expand...

ten second google search.

Birds Survived Mass Extinction That Wiped Out Dinosaurs Because Of Their Larger Brains

Birds ARE dinosaurs by every definition.

And you just want to deny all reality I show you feathered dinosaurs, your response is again to stick your finger in your ears, do you think you glorify god by hiding from the truth?

loveofourlord said:

Sorry but your answer is rediculous and childish, and not worth responding to a second time. Thats not how you learn or improve our knowledge of what god did, "Well it isn't proof." yeah, sorry if I don't accept, uhuh as evidence, by that kind of nonsense, nothing could prove anything, because all you got to do is childishly go, "Dat don't count." again, it's EVERYTHING fits the pattern that was discovered before these fossils were discovered. God just happens to be lying and making animals appear to evolve by creating them to look like they did. Rediculous and insulting to both science and god. The level to wich creationists will go to denial science is silly.

The proof god wouldn't just put feathers on dinosaurs is that would be lying and decietful.

Click to expand...

Nothing looks like it evolved except to people who decided that story fits best with what they see.
You see a dinosaur with feather and to you it fits in with evolution.
I see a dinosaur with feathers and think what an interesting animal God created.
Same evidence-different view.

I knew you would not answer a single question, because you have no answers. Instead, you claim having a different view is childish. If you mean the alien thing, sure that is childish, but it's quite real, there are people-adults- that believe that. I just added that to show there is more than two views.

How did man get his spirit and become sinful?
Why does the Bible say there was no death before sin?
What Bible verses do you use for your view? If evolution ties in the Bible and Christian doctrine there will be scriptural support.

GirdYourLoins said:

Your argument is wrong. First of all Genesis states that the vegetation was created on the second day, creatures of the waters and birds of the air were created on the fourth day and it wasnt until the fifth day that the creatures of the land were created. So the feathered birds by the literal wordof the bible were created before the land animals (which I interpret as including dinosaurs).

You are also failing to take account of the fact that the feathered dinosaur fossil is a proven fake, so why argue it?

Click to expand...

Might want to brush up on your days. I suggest reading a Bible.

Vegetation was day 3.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Sea and flying creatures on day 5
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

Animals and man on day 6
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Yes, birds were created before the land animls. Your point?
Some are fake some are real, doesn't bother me since I know God made them all on day 5 or 6 so whatever they find or don't find is of no importance.

loveofourlord said:

Birds ARE dinosaurs by every definition.

Click to expand...

Not by God's definition. Dinosaurs are land walking animals, God made those on day 6, while birds he made on day 5.
Also he tells us there are four different kinds of flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:39
Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
So birds are a different type of flesh to land walking dinosaurs which are a different type of flesh to the sea 'monster' type dinosaur.

If you want to believe and defend man's classifications over God's is your choice.

The Bible clearly states that birds came first.
Genesis
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

pitabread said:

Kind of ironic, given that creationism is based on ignorance.

Click to expand...

Creationism = God created us, and its true, so who is the ignorant here?, of course i don't have scientific evidence, and what op says is true, the world prefers darkness to God. But in so important matter as knowing our origin and destiny and purpose, you would think people would be more interesting in that, that just tell God to prove to you with scientific evidence like all atheist seem to do.

loveofourlord said:

Because we actually care about reality and science, and understand what evolution is, and the evidence for it. Unlike you we don't make up criteria for something then ignore when it's given, it's be like you and deny gods incredible ability to create like in a amazing fashion, or accept it happened.

Click to expand...

I see evolutionists as completely blind and ignorant. You believe that God would use a pathetic means like "evolution" in His work of creation. Why would an almighty God take millions of years to create His creatures, when He could do it in a day or two.

I know that evolutionists have a low view of God, they think He is like a man but they are dead wrong.

Ask yourself why God didn't create Adam and Eve as pond scum, which slowly evolved into some slimy fish before it became a human. Why did He create them as mature adults???. Now if He created mankind as fully formed mature adults, why wouldn't He be able to create a rock that's fully formed and mature???? and why wouldn't He then go on to create everything fully formed and mature??????

I wouldn't have any time for a pathetic weak god, who takes millions of years to create a slimy little frog. I would laugh at a god like that and I would mock him to his face, just as the evolutionists do to the One True Creator God.

God is not mocked, He has prepared a lake of super hot lava where the mockers will spend eternity screaming in.

But in chapter 2 Man is created before animals.
Genesis
2:8 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

coffee4u said:

Animals and man on day 6
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Yes, birds were created before the land animls. Your point?
Some are fake some are real, doesn't bother me since I know God made them all on day 5 or 6 so whatever they find or don't find is of no importance.

Click to expand...

But in chapter 2 Man is created before animals. and birds mentioned after animals.

Genesis 2:8 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

coffee4u said:

Nothing looks like it evolved except to people who decided that story fits best with what they see.
You see a dinosaur with feather and to you it fits in with evolution.
I see a dinosaur with feathers and think what an interesting animal God created.
Same evidence-different view.

I knew you would not answer a single question, because you have no answers. Instead, you claim having a different view is childish. If you mean the alien thing, sure that is childish, but it's quite real, there are people-adults- that believe that. I just added that to show there is more than two views.

How did man get his spirit and become sinful?
Why does the Bible say there was no death before sin?
What Bible verses do you use for your view? If evolution ties in the Bible and Christian doctrine there will be scriptural support.

Click to expand...

having a different view isn't childish, the childish thing is the excuse for denying it. You say I see dinosaurs with feathers and see it fits in with evolution, no thats not me, thats the people that before we knew that dinosaurs had feathers predicted they evolved from dinosaurs. Funny how we predicted it, and it came to be true, it could have been anything else that had feathers. You have to explain why god would have created tiktalik that looks like transitional between aquaitc fish and fish moving on land. Explain why the whale evolution so perfectly fits what we know and fits how the evolution would have worked.

Your denying isn't a answer, and isn't worthy of being even called that. Going uhuh is defintely childish response, a adult comes up with a better answer to explain the evidence. Because all your doing is looking at how god created life with evolution and denying the evidence. It's never going to convince anyone that actually understands evolution and just makes you look silly.