Morning Star

[Grace2022]

I feel a bit confused.
I have seen both Christ and Lucifer referred to as the Morning Star. How can this possibly be?

 

[Jeshu]

I feel a bit confused.
I have seen both Christ and Lucifer referred to as the Morning Star. How can this possibly be?

satan stole this position from Adam in paradise when we swallowed his lies and made him ruler over us hoping for better things then the kingdom of God had on offer for us. However Jesus rightfully took this position from satan and He is referred to as the hope of the nations and our dawning light after our long night with satan as dictator boss.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I feel a bit confused.
I have seen both Christ and Lucifer referred to as the Morning Star. How can this possibly be?

The prophecy attributed to Lucifer was actually about a king of Babylon (Isaiah 12:14-15) and he is referred to as "the son of the morning", and the word "lucifer" is not a name but the description "son of the morning". There are those who believe that the prophecy is an oblique reference to Satan who was cast out of heaven after being lifted up with pride (Ezekiel 28:16-17). We need to be careful about this prophecy, seeing that it does not directly refer to any entity named Lucifer, that we don't read into the prophecy something that just isn't there just because there are some coincidental similarities to the description of Satan falling out of heaven down onto the earth.

When Jesus said that He saw Satan falling as lightning from heaven (Luke 10:18-20), it was as the result of the 70 going out into the villages and casting out demons. He was not referring to Lucifer's expulsion from heaven. He was speaking of Satan losing his position and power through the power and authority that He had given to His disciples to destroy his works, albeit in a limited manner. But it was a forerunner to the comprehensive power and authority that was to be bestowed on the disciples on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came and filled them.

So there are no actual Scriptural references linking Satan to an entity named "Lucifer". The only reference is "the morning star" which, according to the literal text, refers to a king of Babylon. Whether there is a sub-text to the prophecy referring to Satan, no one can be really sure.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I feel a bit confused.
I have seen both Christ and Lucifer referred to as the Morning Star. How can this possibly be?

Lucifer is the name of Satan before he rebelled against God. Lucifer means "light bearer". He was cast down to the earth and lost his position before God. It helps to remember that the Lord Jesus did everything on earth as man, including defeat Satan at the cross. Lord Jesus came to the earth to be a number of things, including the light of the world. Satan introduced the Kingdom of Darkness. Lord Jesus brought the Light. Satan is no longer the star of the morning.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The prophecy attributed to Lucifer was actually about a king of Babylon (Isaiah 12:14-15) and he is referred to as "the son of the morning", and the word "lucifer" is not a name but the description "son of the morning". There are those who believe that the prophecy is an oblique reference to Satan who was cast out of heaven after being lifted up with pride (Ezekiel 28:16-17). We need to be careful about this prophecy, seeing that it does not directly refer to any entity named Lucifer, that we don't read into the prophecy something that just isn't there just because there are some coincidental similarities to the description of Satan falling out of heaven down onto the earth.

When Jesus said that He saw Satan falling as lightning from heaven (Luke 10:18-20), it was as the result of the 70 going out into the villages and casting out demons. He was not referring to Lucifer's expulsion from heaven. He was speaking of Satan losing his position and power through the power and authority that He had given to His disciples to destroy his works, albeit in a limited manner. But it was a forerunner to the comprehensive power and authority that was to be bestowed on the disciples on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came and filled them.

So there are no actual Scriptural references linking Satan to an entity named "Lucifer". The only reference is "the morning star" which, according to the literal text, refers to a king of Babylon. Whether there is a sub-text to the prophecy referring to Satan, no one can be really sure.

I read the two passages, Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 while as very young Christian. Immediately I sensed that the passages referred to Satan. The King of Babylon was not in Eden. We know who was. I've had no reason to change my mind about those passages.

 

[Grace2022]

The prophecy attributed to Lucifer was actually about a king of Babylon (Isaiah 12:14-15) and he is referred to as "the son of the morning", and the word "lucifer" is not a name but the description "son of the morning". There are those who believe that the prophecy is an oblique reference to Satan who was cast out of heaven after being lifted up with pride (Ezekiel 28:16-17). We need to be careful about this prophecy, seeing that it does not directly refer to any entity named Lucifer, that we don't read into the prophecy something that just isn't there just because there are some coincidental similarities to the description of Satan falling out of heaven down onto the earth.

When Jesus said that He saw Satan falling as lightning from heaven (Luke 10:18-20), it was as the result of the 70 going out into the villages and casting out demons. He was not referring to Lucifer's expulsion from heaven. He was speaking of Satan losing his position and power through the power and authority that He had given to His disciples to destroy his works, albeit in a limited manner. But it was a forerunner to the comprehensive power and authority that was to be bestowed on the disciples on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came and filled them.

So there are no actual Scriptural references linking Satan to an entity named "Lucifer". The only reference is "the morning star" which, according to the literal text, refers to a king of Babylon. Whether there is a sub-text to the prophecy referring to Satan, no one can be really sure.

Wow, very interesting. Puts a whole new perspective on the matter.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I read the two passages, Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 while as very young Christian. Immediately I sensed that the passages referred to Satan. The King of Babylon was not in Eden. We know who was. I've had no reason to change my mind about those passages.

I just like giving alternative views to promote thought and discussion. From my study of English Literature, and teaching comprehension in elementary school, I know that there is the literal text, and the implied sub-text, as well as the author's intention, the culture, history, and how his readers at the time would have understood it.

So, I accept that the sub-text implication of the passage could well refer to Satan falling from heaven. It is in harmony with the Ezekiel and the Luke references. When we get three passages of Scripture saying basically the same thing, and know that Scripture interprets Scripture, then you could possibly be quite right!

I don't accept that Satan was called Lucifer. Comprehension 101 and basic grammar tells me that a name is capitalised and a description is not. The word "lucifer" is therefore not a name, but a description. Perhaps the description translated "morning star" could very well be ironic or even sarcastic, seeing that Jesus is also described the same way. It could be a way of saying, "So you thought you could be like God, the real Morning Star, but you as "morning star" are just a faint caricature of the real Person."

 

[JackRT]

Lucifer is the name of Satan before he rebelled against God. Lucifer means "light bearer". He was cast down to the earth and lost his position before God.

I agree completely with Oscarr. Here are some thoughts of my own:

There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14:4 “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14:16 “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" It was the third century Christian philosopher Origen of Alexandria who was the first that this passage was a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone could interpret Isaiah in this way is, to me, somewhat naive.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I agree completely with Oscarr. Here are some thoughts of my own:

There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14:4 “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14:16 “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" It was the third century Christian philosopher Origen of Alexandria who was the first that this passage was a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone could interpret Isaiah in this way is, to me, somewhat naive.

Maybe it is common because it is correct.

 

[Grace2022]

I just like giving alternative views to promote thought and discussion. From my study of English Literature, and teaching comprehension in elementary school, I know that there is the literal text, and the implied sub-text, as well as the author's intention, the culture, history, and how his readers at the time would have understood it.

So, I accept that the sub-text implication of the passage could well refer to Satan falling from heaven. It is in harmony with the Ezekiel and the Luke references. When we get three passages of Scripture saying basically the same thing, and know that Scripture interprets Scripture, then you could possibly be quite right!

I don't accept that Satan was called Lucifer. Comprehension 101 and basic grammar tells me that a name is capitalised and a description is not. The word "lucifer" is therefore not a name, but a description. Perhaps the description translated "morning star" could very well be ironic or even sarcastic, seeing that Jesus is also described the same way. It could be a way of saying, "So you thought you could be like God, the real Morning Star, but you as "morning star" are just a faint caricature of the real Person."

Hi Oscarr
Very useful way of seeing this. You show the great value of a forum like this, to further all of us in learning what the Bible is telling us. Unpack what is at first possibly confusing. Thank you.

 

[U.Kpaul]

This man explains the truth on this topic