LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

[Jamesone5]

Jesus has already taught us who the sheep and the goats are.

And??????????????

 

[Jamesone5]

Seems you are trying to deny or cancel out one verse in the Bible. He was only giving an example of this love He first brought onto the scene.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us

And then:

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

We get our Christian love from Him.

 

[He is the way]

The only thing you really Know or should know is this;

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth

Now a God who shares His Godhood with another God in Christ--proves you do not know the One True God.

Once you get through that Knowing God--it comes down to Faith
Hebrews 11:1
[ By Faith We Understand ] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now Mormons who say the Know something do not really know as they claim. For instance--- where any of you there when Joseph Smith received the plates? No, you have to rely on a faith as you certainly did not see it, nor witness it. Are you God who certainly knows all things:

1 John 3:20
For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things

Do you claim to know somehow that Christ died and then was Resurrected , having been there when it all happened? There again you have to really on a Faith. Reading the Bible and seeing His impact on our lives as the True Christ--makes for a Faith that is very solid.

Does this verse say 'know" somewhere?
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

When Mormon says he "knows" something in his testimony, I laugh as he/she is only hoping his church is true [through a relative faith]without addressing the rest of the Hebrews verse. Nor, not understanding what that verse is saying to those of us who have the Holy Spirit.

It is possible to know something through faith:

(New Testament | Matthew 8:8 - 10)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

However I prayed to God and after much diligence He has revealed the truth of it to me.

 

[He is the way]

Seems you are trying to deny or cancel out one verse in the Bible. He was only giving an example of this love He first brought onto the scene.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us

We need to LOVE Him the way He LOVES us:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:24 - 27)

24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

 

[He is the way]

And then:

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

We get our Christian love from Him.

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

We gain LOVE by keeping the commandments.

 

[Rescued One]

The Mormon 'trinity' seems to be in practice (i.e., in these testimonies) the Father, the Son, and the Restoration. Two are gods (in Mormonism's henotheistic pantheon), while one is an ecclesiological principle. Huh.

The Mormon Holy Ghost doesn’t qualify as a God.. If they insist that he is a God regardless, why is he ranked lower than the Savior? They claim that the Saints can be equal with God.

To qualify for godhood, humans have to be baptized by one with authority, pay tithes and offerings, have their endowments, be washed from the sins of this generation, be married in the temple, keep celestial laws, etc.

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “I believe firmly that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. He taught this doctrine to his disciples. He did not teach them that he was the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of the Father. Truly, all things are done by the power of the Holy Ghost. It was through this power that Jesus was brought into this world, but not as the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of God.
Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).
Bok of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74

 

[Jamesone5]

It is possible to know something through faith:

(New Testament | Matthew 8:8 - 10)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

However I prayed to God and after much diligence He has revealed the truth of it to me.

You are still relying on Faith with this God you obviously do not know. He, by that way is the Only True God, and you have made Christ another God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

 

[Jamesone5]

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

We gain LOVE by keeping the commandments.

"Gain love"?---where in the Bible do you find support for that term?


Certainly not in the verse you submitted. But it does say He is the author of Christian love.

 

[Jamesone5]

We need to LOVE Him the way He LOVES us:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:24 - 27)

24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Now you are getting it. And then:

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

 

[He is the way]

The Mormon Holy Ghost doesn’t qualify as a God.. If they insist that he is a God regardless, why is he ranked lower than the Savior? They claim that the Saints can be equal with God.

To qualify for godhood, humans have to be baptized by one with authority, pay tithes and offerings, have their endowments, be washed from the sins of this generation, be married in the temple, keep celestial laws, etc.

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “I believe firmly that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. He taught this doctrine to his disciples. He did not teach them that he was the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of the Father. Truly, all things are done by the power of the Holy Ghost. It was through this power that Jesus was brought into this world, but not as the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of God.
Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).
Bok of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74

You said: "The Mormon Holy Ghost doesn’t qualify as a God.. If they insist that he is a God regardless, why is he ranked lower than the Savior?"

The Holy Ghost is indeed one with God the Father and the Son:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

 

[He is the way]

You are still relying on Faith with this God you obviously do not know. He, by that way is the Only True God, and you have made Christ another God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

We all rely completely on faith. That is not to say that we do not know anything. Nor does it mean that nothing can be proven to us as it was proven to me.

 

[He is the way]

"Gain love"?---where in the Bible do you find support for that term?


Certainly not in the verse you submitted. But it does say He is the author of Christian love.

God is LOVE and in order to know Him we need to keep the commandments. Those who do not keep the commandments do not know LOVE:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[He is the way]

Now you are getting it. And then:

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

I understood it a long time ago:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Jamesone5]

God is LOVE and in order to know Him we need to keep the commandments. Those who do not keep the commandments do not know LOVE:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Does that say "if anyone loves me he should try to keep My word?"

I think you are thinking we can generate this Christian Love on our own. Obey and then we receive His love and then have a love for others. Just like a works-based Religion.
That verse is contrary to that notion as well as this one

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

You realize His love [as I have loved you]and then you love one another. "Manifest" Himself to us, as in this verse:

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

 

[Jamesone5]

We all rely completely on faith. That is not to say that we do not know anything. Nor does it mean that nothing can be proven to us as it was proven to me.

You say we all rely completely on faith. But in the very next sentence you contradict that notion by saying there are exceptions. Which is it?

Let's take your statement---it was proven to me

Proven to you in the physical realm and right at this moment? That is what you are talking about when you say "you Know". The only thing you know are things like "the sky is blue" or "I am 6 ft. tall". You certainly do not "know the future". Sky could turn red tomorrow and as we age we surely shrink in our height. You have faith that your heart will keep beating but you surely do not "know " that.

How God will bring us to heaven is arrived by Faith as well. Unless you are God Himself, you do not "know that". That is the Sovereignty of God, Who truly "knows"

Hebrews 11:1 (NKJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This evidence of things not seen are the spiritual understandings that come from Faith. But then, you need the True Holy Spirit to "see them"

 

[He is the way]

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Does that say "if anyone loves me he should try to keep My word?"

I think you are thinking we can generate this Christian on our own. Obey and then we receive His love and then love for others. Just like a works-based Religion.
That verse is contrary to that notion as well as this one

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

You realize his love [as I have loved you]and then you love one another. "Manifest" Himself to us, as in this verse:
John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

It is not a works based religion, it is a LOVE based religion. Everything is based on LOVE including the commandments:

(New Testament | Mark 12:28 - 33)

28 ¶ And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

 

[He is the way]

You say we all rely completely on faith. But in the very next sentence you contradict that notion by saying there are exceptions. Which is it?

Let's take your statement---it was proven to me

Proven in the physical relm? That is what you are talking about when you say "you Know". You have faith that your heart will keep beating but you surely do not "know " that. How God will bring us to heaven is arrived by Faith as well. Unless you are God Himself, you do not "know that". That is the Sovereignty of God that truly "knows"

Hebrews 11:1 (NKJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Those things not seen are the spiritual understandings. But then, you need the True Holy Spirit to "see them"

Faith is also believing that the things we see are true and not just a dream. Does 2+2=4? Do you know that 2+2=4? I have been shown that 2+2=4. I know that 2+2=4. I have been shown that God lives, I know that God lives. I have been shown that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is Christ's true church. I know that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is Christ's true church.

 

[Jamesone5]

It is not a works based religion, it is a LOVE based religion. Everything is based on LOVE including the commandments:

(New Testament | Mark 12:28 - 33)

28 ¶ And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

How do we come to this love?

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you

We simply realize His love and then we [in our new creation existence] can fully love God and others

 

[Jamesone5]

Faith is also believing that the things we see are true and not just a dream. Does 2+2=4? Do you know that 2+2=4? I have been shown that 2+2=4. I know that 2+2=4. I have been shown that God lives, I know that God lives. I have been shown that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is Christ's true church. I know that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is Christ's true church.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

You say you know the Church of JCofLDS is his true church you are set your "knowing" on that as a Member who really only thinks he is HIS.

Does the Lord God NOT get a say on this? You know the God you say you Worship and Love?

 

[Rescued One]

"Gain love"?---where in the Bible do you find support for that term?


Certainly not in the verse you submitted. But it does say He is the author of Christian love.

Gain, earn, worthy are favorite words of Mormons because that is the only way a Mormon can be blessed.