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Featured LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    In the Mormon view non-Mormons have not come unto Christ:

    Doctrine and Covenants 138
    57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.


    58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,

    Mormon 1997 CalledtoServeHim.jpg

    The missionaries knock on your door or stop to speak to you outdoors to give you the opportunity to become a Mormon so you can "come unto Christ."
     
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  2. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Eh, Baptists don't think I'm saved either. And plenty of other groupings would agree. I'm used to it.
     
  3. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Well the feeling is generally mutual, isn't it? :)
     
  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I think God is the one who will judge Christians and everyone else. I think He instructs us in the Bible.

    Psalm 119
    11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    I don't declare only one denomination has Christians in it. Mormonism claims that anyone (Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, non-Denominational) who is not Mormon needs to become Mormon. If God will be the judge, how can a person say, there are no Christians outside my church?

    1 Samuel 16:7
    But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. :heart:

    Do you believe that only Mormons are Christians?
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Are Baptists Christians?
     
  6. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Of course. And Orthodox and Lutherans and a bunch of others are too.
     
  7. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I won't say that every person in a church is a Christian.
     
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  8. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nor I, but the point I was making is that I'm used to people presuming I'm not a Christian because I am not of their sort. That the Mormons do that is no big deal to me because I hear it a lot from fine Christians as well.
     
  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    :neutral:
     
  10. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    Whether you want to admit it or not, mainline Christianity has produced a massive body of material consisting of authors trying to explain why anyone who doesn't subscribe to their personal belief system is going to hell.

    The more incoherent and/or hateful it is, the more copies it moves.

    This leaves mainline Christianity with no room whatsoever to criticize us for missionary efforts unless it wants to get its own house in order first.
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    You're not being criticized here for your missionary efforts, but for the underlying principle that apparently drives them that the people you are witnessing to has not known Christ because they are not Mormon.

    That is absolutely deserving of criticism, because it is Mormonism that robs people of the true Christ.
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    There is only one way to know God and that is to keep the commandments:

    (New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
     
  13. Ran77

    Ran77 Senior Contributor

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    The statement that forms the title for this thread is not true. At least not for the main branch of the LDS church. The members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe that all who turned to the Savior have come unto Christ. Since I'm not sure what the current rules are for quoting our church website, I will paraphrase what it says.

    Begin with a molecule of faith. Simply having the desire to believe gives room for the promises of God to find a home in your heart. And that is enough to start.

    The rest of the article mentions; repent and change what we can, taking His name upon us, and following the Son. These are the steps that the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe to be "Coming unto Christ."
     
  14. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Then your church should stop trying to convert people that Mormons think have already come to Christ.


    Christians have come to Christ. Mormon missionaries are sent out to bring people to Christ. If they already have Christ, missionaries can't bring them to Christ.

    His word is the Bible. Bible 1.gif Most Christians in the United States have at least one.

    Psalm 119
    11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    Mormons don't believe that any non-Mormon has taken the necessary steps to come to Christ.

    LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Enrichment G, p. 395.gif


    Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, 1981, Enrichment G, p. 395

    3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the [Mormon]Gospel.
    Articles of Faith 1
     
  15. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Abraham took the necessary steps to come unto Christ:

    (Old Testament | Genesis 26:5)

    5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
     
  16. Ran77

    Ran77 Senior Contributor

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    Missionaries for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are sent out for many reasons. In some cases, it is to bring people to Christ. In other cases, it is to help those who have come to Christ to fully understand the words of the Savior. And I would suggest that at least part of the reason we send out missionaries is to help them develop their own testimony.

    Which means your statement is flawed. You limit the reason the church sends missionaries out into the world to a single purpose and then base the rest of your argument on that limited subset. It would be correct if you stated that we send missionaries out to those who already have Christ to bring them even closer to the Savior and his message of love, hope, and salvation.

    Is there something wrong with wanting to help people build a stronger relationship with Christ?


    This doesn't address the topic. I believe that is known as a Red Herring.


    This has already been addressed and shown to be false. Repeating an incorrect statement will not make it any more correct than it was the first time.


    If the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are so readily wrong, then why is it necessary to insert the term "Mormon" into one of our scriptures. Making changes to what our scriptures actually state, is a sign that the evidence alone is not enough to condemn us.

    However, I think it is more important to point out that this moves away from the topic. If the premise of this thread is true then anyone interested in proving it should be able to do so with information pertaining to this topic. I suspect that moving away from the topic is an indication that no reliable facts exist to refute my claims.

    I'd be happy to discuss our views on the Atonement in a thread about the Atonement, but I would prefer to keep my comments here directed to the matter of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and how we view "Coming unto Christ."
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Not every Christian church thinks that only those of their church will be saved. We believe others from every faith will be saved. God sees the heart. Each church presents to others what they believe is the truth. It is up to the Holy Spirit, working in the individual, to convict of that truth. The sin lies in being convicted---and not responding to that conviction. But at the end, there swill be one fold.

    Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Every church has some truth in it. Through the Holy Spirit, the truths will be revealed and the lies are made much more obvious. When doctrines are not found in the bible---they are not truth.
    Jas_1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

    It is through the word of God that we are to find our truth and salvation, not the theories of men.
     
  18. Jamesone5

    Jamesone5 Active Member Supporter

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    But what your are NOT telling us and admitting to is this;

    Faith is the key word and in your testimony you have to state and identify what elements you believe in or "know to be true"

    Christ, of course

    Your prophet Joseph Smith and/or your current prophet

    And then the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

    Why should Christ share one's Faith? After all He is the way, not also through a prophet and a worldly church that happens to have it's headquarters in SL City.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  19. Jamesone5

    Jamesone5 Active Member Supporter

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  20. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
    Nephi sees in vision the church of the devil set up among the Gentiles, the discovery and colonizing of America, the loss of many plain and precious parts of the Bible, the resultant state of gentile apostasy, the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture, and the building up of Zion. About 600–592 B.C.
    1 Nephi 13


    1 Nephi 14
    An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.


    9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

    10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.


    Who is the Lamb of God according to Mormons?

    In the premortal councils of heaven, God had promised Adam and Eve (and all the rest of us) that help would come from His pure, unblemished Firstborn Son, the Lamb of God “slain from the foundation of the world,”5 as the Apostle John would later describe Him.

    Behold the Lamb of God

    Doctrine and Covenants 1
    Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on November 1, 1831, during a special conference of elders of the Church, held at Hiram, Ohio...


    1–7, The voice of warning is to all people; 8–16, Apostasy and wickedness precede the Second Coming; 17–23, Joseph Smith is called to restore to earth the Lord’s truths and powers; 24–33, The Book of Mormon is brought forth and the true Church is established; 34–36, Peace will be taken from the earth; 37–39, Search these commandments.

    29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.

    30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually
    Doctrine and Covenants 1


    Galatians 1
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


    Matthew 24
    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many


    Calling it a red herring is simply your prejudicial false statement.

    I inserted the word Mormon in brackets to clarify the meaning for non-Mormons.

    "If the original material includes a noun or pronoun that is unclear, brackets can be used for clarification."
    From Brackets | The Punctuation Guide


    Some people see the connection. You don't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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