LDS Mormon Requirements for Eternal Life

[Dale]

Actually such statements are non-canonical speculations. The LDS Church has no official stance on the matter. It is important to remember that LDS do not believe that exhalation or prefer ion are achieved in this mortal life, and for many people entire chapters come after this life.

Not really.

On your "not really" answer, if that isn't the case, then explain it.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The Gospel Principles manual and the Ensign from the LDS.org website are "crap sources"? Good to know.



Where did that happen?



Where did that happen?



Can you please provide for us whatever important background and companion material we should be reading, then? If you know that something should be there in order to give non-Mormons a more complete picture, I would think you would want to make sure it is there, particularly in the context of a situation where you claim that someone is deliberately misrepresenting your faith.



I don't know about everyone else, but I do follow the links given. I have chapter 47 of the Gospel Principles manual open in another tab right now, because I want to see the quoted portion in context.



What do you have in mind here?



And here?



What statistics are there in the OP?



I agree. It's just not clear to me how this relates to the OP in particular.

I gave you a list of ways to lie while still citing sources. This is part of research ethics 101. I have seen all of these used in discussion with other Christians. I would like to reframe from calling out specific examples of them being used on this board as to avoid any accusation of flaming & violations of forum rules.

 

[dzheremi]

Alright, well...I'm asking for specific examples because the accusation of misrepresentation has come up in this particular thread, but okay. Do as you wish. It makes it seem like there isn't anything behind these accusations, though, and I'm pretty sure making false accusations against other posters is also against the site's rules.

 

[Jane_Doe]

On your "not really" answer, if that isn't the case, then explain it.

Sure. You said:

The main distinction in Mormonism is between those who will reign in heaven and those who will serve there.

The way you have things phrased here it sounds like it's all about power dynamics and who bosses who around. That's really not the focus: we all serve God. Rather, LDS degrees of glory are about a person's acceptance of Christ and magnitude of conversion. Those whom are more deeply reflective of Him obviously reflect that greater degree of His glory, versus someone who's only half-assing things.

Speaking practically: the LDS concern day-to-day is not about the specifics of God's Judgement or the reward in Heaven, but on better being a disciple of Him.

 

[Dale]

Actually such statements are non-canonical speculations. The LDS Church has no official stance on the matter. It is important to remember that LDS do not believe that exhalation or prefer ion are achieved in this mortal life, and for many people entire chapters come after this life.

Not really.

Thank you for your response to my comment.

On whether Jesus needed to be married to reign in heaven, try this.


Under the title Our Married Savior Jesus Christ, on a site called Mormon Chronicle we find:


<< Another requirement for obtaining the highest degree of glory is for us to enter into and live the principle of Celestial Marriage. D&C 132:19-21 discusses the blessings of living this standard and admonishes:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
Again – even the Savior was required to enter into the covenant of Celestial Marriage if He was to ultimately “inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths…” as God affirms in D&C 132:19. >>

D&C is short for Doctrines and Covenants, part of the Mormon Scripture. I believe the D&C is also sometimes called Doctrines of the Priesthood.

Link:
Our Married Savior Jesus Christ

 

[Jane_Doe]

Thank you for your response to my comment.

On whether Jesus needed to be married to reign in heaven, try this.


Under the title Our Married Savior Jesus Christ, on a site called Mormon Chronicle we find:


<< Another requirement for obtaining the highest degree of glory is for us to enter into and live the principle of Celestial Marriage. D&C 132:19-21 discusses the blessings of living this standard and admonishes:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
Again – even the Savior was required to enter into the covenant of Celestial Marriage if He was to ultimately “inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths…” as God affirms in D&C 132:19. >>

D&C is short for Doctrines and Covenants, part of the Mormon Scripture. I believe the D&C is also sometimes called Doctrines of the Priesthood.

Link:
Our Married Savior Jesus Christ

The "Mormon Chronicle" is website that specifically states: "DISCLAIMER: The views and content on this site reflect only the opinions and teachings of the authors of the respective content contained herein." About Mormon Chronicle (bolding mine).

What you are seeing therein is the author's speculations on things, not an official LDS Church statement.

 

[Dale]

The "Mormon Chronicle" is website that specifically states: "DISCLAIMER: The views and content on this site reflect only the opinions and teachings of the authors of the respective content contained herein." About Mormon Chronicle (bolding mine).

What you are seeing therein is the author's speculations on things, not an official LDS Church statement.

Do you deny that Mormons have understood marriage to be essential to their destiny in heaven for most of Mormon history? Even if the church chooses to be silent on that at the moment?

 

[Dale]

I read a book on Mormonism years ago. The author concluded that Mormon theology is complete chaos. Perhaps the lack of professional ministers and professional theologians has something to do with this.


I have visited a Mormon church, or stakehouse, if that is the term, on a few occasions. When I visited in Ft. Lauderdale, they put me in a class for people who were in the process of becoming Mormons. The teacher posed the question: "Who has all the priesthood that there is?" Many of the people in the room had been raised as Christians and they automatically responded, "Christ." That is, any legitimate priesthood must draw its authority from Christ. That was the wrong answer. The official answer we were given is that any Elder of the LDS church has "all the priesthood that there is." To me, this answer seemed to be self-glorifying.


In discussion on CF, I have mentioned this incident. Mormons have told me that they have never heard this, it is not a slogan or a doctrine of the church. But then, Mormon theology seems to be complete chaos.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The point is that we (at least Ironhold and I) get really tired of "good Christians" misrepresenting what we believe and relationship with God, and then urging us to be more like them. It is quite tiresome.

We've established this before - what you personally may believe is not necessarily in line with what is being taught and endorsed by your church. It's quite tiresome that you keep dodging that fact...

 

[BigDaddy4]

On one hand, we're being told that all one need do to be "saved" is make a profession of faith.

Well, that is what the Bible says.... John 3:16, et al

On the other hand, every time we get a two-bit hustler who uses God's name to cover for their sins, we get various mainline Christians try to tell us that this person must not have actually been saved in the first place... in direct contradiction to the whole "profess and be saved!" argument they themselves were just making.

Anyone can claim to be a Christian. Jesus will judge in the end.

And that's assuming, of course, people aren't trying to justify how it is that what they're doing isn't sin at all if their actions are convenient to the larger "cause" that the person is trying to do.

So yeah - we're kinda getting fed up here.

No one is making you come to CF and post. That's your choice. Yet you keep coming back for more...

 

[BigDaddy4]

I gave you a list of ways to lie while still citing sources. This is part of research ethics 101. I have seen all of these used in discussion with other Christians. I would like to reframe from calling out specific examples of them being used on this board as to avoid any accusation of flaming & violations of forum rules.

You seem to like to make accusations without any substance behind them. The above excuse is pretty lame, IMO. Is that what the lds church is teaching you - to bear false witness?? You want Christians to acknowledge your relationship with Christ, but this type of behavior certainly doesn't help your case.

 

[Rescued One]

Sure. You said:

The way you have things phrased here it sounds like it's all about power dynamics and who bosses who around. That's really not the focus: we all serve God. Rather, LDS degrees of glory are about a person's acceptance of Christ and magnitude of conversion. Those whom are more deeply reflective of Him obviously reflect that greater degree of His glory, versus someone who's only half-assing things.

Speaking practically: the LDS concern day-to-day is not about the specifics of God's Judgement or the reward in Heaven, but on better being a disciple of Him.

The only conversion God brings about is complete; there isn't a magnitude of conversion. All those He converts are equal and equally converted.

Ephesians 1
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Corinthians 1
4I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;5That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Philippians 1
3I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Our reward is eternal life.

Matthew 20
...8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

He promised to be with us forever even to the end of the world.

 

[Rescued One]

Do you deny that Mormons have understood marriage to be essential to their destiny in heaven for most of Mormon history? Even if the church chooses to be silent on that at the moment?

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Those who become gods(male and female) are the only ones who have eternal life.


Jesus Christ “hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons.” (D&C 88:42.) And, “Unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.” (D&C 88:38.)

“All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.” (D&C 88:39.)

The law of the gospel of Jesus Christ has decreed that every man must repent and be baptized by immersion, after the pattern of the Lawgiver, or he cannot be saved.

Is a man, therefore, justified if he holds himself outside the conditions of this law?

William R. Bradford, The Safety of the Gospel Law, General Conference, October 1977
The Safety of the Gospel Law - William R. Bradford

People are assigned to the kingdom which matches the laws they keep.

You won't find a Mormon who says that Jesus didn't keep all the laws of the Celestial Kingdom.

President Brigham Young taught that “there is no being in all the eternities but what is governed by law” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 1). Elder Bruce R. McConkie stated, similarly, that Christ “governs and is governed by law”
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 432.) God has said, for example, that He is bound when His children do what He says (see D&C 82:10). He is bound to fulfill His promises, for He is a being of complete integrity who conforms totally to the laws of righteousness. He is a celestial being and abides by celestial law, for any being “who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory” (D&C 88:22).
Enrichment G: The Nature and Purpose of Law

​

 

[DW1980]

...Up until you find yet another "Good Christian" sinning in God's name by slandering you, your beliefs, and everything else.

Then it's a matter of splitting hairs with their buddies about whether or not the person so slandering you is even doing anything wrong (after all, he's bashing a "cult" in God's name), and if so whether it means they were actually saved to begin with.

Yeah.

I can tell you, hand on heart, between Christians I have known and Churches I have been part of - this does not happen. The only exception I have seen would be a few fundamentalists who take shots at the Catholic Church but they are by far in the minority.

 

[DW1980]

I don't know why they turned you down, but I was told by the Mormons that only full tithe payers receive aid.

So what happens to someone on benefits? I know things are different in different countries, but here if you were getting the maximum, you would have your housing and council tax paid for you, and receive an allowance for food, gas and electricity etc. That wouldn't leave much to tithe with - assuming you wanted to be able to pay for any kind of leisure activity.

 

[Rescued One]

This explains why the Mormon can't be justified until he obeys the commandments until judgment day.

“All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.” (D&C 88:39.)

 

[Rescued One]

So what happens to someone on benefits? I know things are different in different countries, but here if you were getting the maximum, you would have your housing and council tax paid for you, and receive an allowance for food, gas and electricity etc. That wouldn't leave much to tithe with - assuming you wanted to be able to pay for any kind of leisure activity.

Most Mormons I've known had decent incomes. My sister went through a hard time and the church made her mortgage payments. But I had moved away and didn't know the details. She came down with cancer and died within five months of her diagnosis.

A Mormon shouldn't choose a leisure activity over obedience to tithing.

 

[Rescued One]

The law of consecration is a divine principle whereby men and women voluntarily dedicate their time, talents, and material wealth to the establishment and building up of God’s kingdom.
Consecrate, Law of Consecration

Accordingly, I shall now set forth some of the principles of sacrifice and consecration to which the true saints must conform if they are ever to go where God and Christ are and have an inheritance with the faithful saints of ages past.

It is written: “He who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.” (D&C 88:22.) The law of sacrifice is a celestial law; so also is the law of consecration. Thus to gain that celestial reward which we so devoutly desire, we must be able to live these two laws.
Obedience, Consecration, and Sacrifice - Bruce R. McConkie

 

[DW1980]

Most Mormons I've known had decent incomes. My sister went through a hard time and the church made her mortgage payments. But I had moved away and didn't know the details. She came down with cancer and died within five months of her diagnosis.

A Mormon shouldn't choose a leisure activity over obedience to tithing.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister :-(

It's good that the church did that for her. Helping those in need is certainly one thing I think we would all agree on!

 

[Jane_Doe]

Do you deny that Mormons have understood marriage to be essential to their destiny in heaven for most of Mormon history? Even if the church chooses to be silent on that at the moment?

It is for exaltation, not salvation. It is important to remember that LDS do not believe that exhalation or prefer ion are achieved in this mortal life, and for many people entire chapters come after this life (one of these chapter could very well be marriage for a person).

I have visited a Mormon church, or stakehouse, if that is the term, on a few occasions. When I visited in Ft. Lauderdale, they put me in a class for people who were in the process of becoming Mormons. The teacher posed the question: "Who has all the priesthood that there is?" Many of the people in the room had been raised as Christians and they automatically responded, "Christ." That is, any legitimate priesthood must draw its authority from Christ. That was the wrong answer. The official answer we were given is that any Elder of the LDS church has "all the priesthood that there is." To me, this answer seemed to be self-glorifying.

Clarification here: LDS do indeed believe Christ have all the the priesthood- heck it is HIS priesthood in the first place. We also believe that He bestows this authority on those He sends on His business in His Church (which LDS believe is the LDS church). Christ sending another person as His messenger never takes away from His authority/priesthood.

I hope that clarifies things for you.