More and More lazy stay at home wives

[Inkachu]

Well the not "not do much" was different when she worked before the Car accident in Dec 2012. She would cook maybe 20 percent of time and did 80 percent.

She would do a load of laundry or two, and would do the rest(probably about 5 load because we have about 7 per week - I have 5 kids 3 days a week).

She has never done vacuuming or mopping since we have been together, that's all me. She said she likes the way I do it and I do a better job than her - is what she said.

As far as dishes go, since I do 80 percent of cooking, typically I do 80 percent of dishes because she believes whoever cooks also does dishes and cleanup afterwards.

When she worked I did the grocery shopping, I would carve out an hour or two during my day and run to the grocery store. With my job as a programmer I have a flexible schedule, aside from meetings.

Does that describe it?

I can't help but think that if the genders were reversed (the husband working outside the home full time, the wife working at home, and the wife does the majority of the household chores, but the husband pitches in here and there), it would be called absolutely normal. In other words, what you're experiencing, Musings, is what 99.9% of wives experience.

But it's a totally different story when it's the other way around, isn't it?

Just something to think about.

 

[akmom]

Yeah, the pre-injury division of labor seemed perfectly acceptable to me. I thought the OP was just being whiny. After the injury, it's hard to say. My husband works full-time and I work part-time, and though it's hard to put a number on it (and varies every day), I'd say I do 90% of the housework. I'd even say (and my husband admits) he gets more downtime. But who cares? It all gets done and he's there when I need him, so there's no reason to be upset.

There was a time in our marriage when I'd be trying to cook dinner while holding a baby that needed changed, and he wouldn't take the baby OR stir dinner, because he was playing a game. (I could exhaust this thread with more examples, but won't.) That's what I consider lazy and thankfully we're past that dynamic. But it sounds like the OP doesn't really have a problem, but is just being picky.

 

[ValleyGal]

I've seen absolutely no mention of the division of chores the children do. They live there 40% of the time. Musing, there is no reason why you should be doing all that laundry for them. They are old enough to do their own laundry. And let them cook and clean. You said they are all around pre-adolescent/adolescent. I started cooking when I was 9. Nine.

Here's the thing. If each of these kids is responsible to keep their own room/laundry and bathroom clean while they are with you, and you have a "family cleaning day" one day, you could have the entire house clean within a couple of hours, including yard work. Since there are what? Seven of you? You would each only be doing 1/7th the work! And here's the bonus. If it's all done when the kids leave for their bio mom's, it would be soooo easy to keep it maintained for the other 4 days a week when they are not there.

It's not hard. You'd also be teaching them all pertinent life skills - yes, even men need to know these same housekeeping skills, and you'd free up your time so you can all enjoy family play time.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

I'd like to know where the idea of "his jobs" vs. "her jobs" is coming from? You BOTH live in the house...why keep score? If something needs to get done, then do it! I am not naturally a "neat" or "organized" person. My husband can walk into an utter disaster and have it organized in 10 minutes flat. Me? I just sit and basically freeze. He normally will do laundry, vacuuming and mopping. He does it well. Me...not so much. So..is he doing "my job"? I take care of vehicle maintenance. That's more my strong suit. Should that be "his job"? Would you tell me that we have our "roles" confused?

I don't quite understand this idea that gender determines chores. I also really don't like this idea of keeping score (reference the remark about he cooks 80% of the time) either. Why keep score? When we had babies and my husband was home, he got up with them about as much as I did...and if he was on leave, he would get up to let me get some sleep. Was he doing "women's work"? He changed plenty of diapers, even if I was sitting right there...he'd get up and just do what needed to be done. There have been plenty of times I've done it ALL because he was just too sick to do much of anything. Should I be keeping score here? There've been times he's done it ALL too. Should he be keeping score? In other words, I've done ALL the home and children chores for X hours (or days, weeks, months, years) so now I get a free pass to sit on my behind and let YOU do it for X amount of time? That's not quite how it works.

There's something in 1 Corinthians 13 about love does not keep score. Its a very true idea. Quit with the scorecard. All it does is adds poison to an already toxic situation.

 

[Inkachu]

Proud - thank you! Nobody "keeps score" in my house, either. There are very few chores that are solely one person's job. Some chores tend to fall to one person because they're the best at it, or they just find it more convenient to do (ie, my husband is an a.mazing cook, and I am an accident-waiting-to-happen in the kitchen, so he does the cooking), but lots of times we all pitch in and help each other, or if we see someone missed something, whoever comes along next will just jump in and do it.

The whole "her stuff, his stuff" nonsense is a bunch of unnecessary drama.

 

[mkgal1]

I'm still pondering what it means to put family over career (especially when the career is *for* the family). I wouldn't even necessarily say it's when we are willing to drop everything at work in order to attend to a crisis. I still think that's a bit rigid of a definition. What about people that are in the military and that's not a reasonable expectation......or a surgeon.....or *anyone* who is in an employment position where they'd be fired for missing work (no matter what the reason)? If it's the latter......I do think one ought to be on the search for a new job.....but I don't think it necessarily comes down to that.

I think (at this moment, anyway) it has more to do with what one is valuing more......protecting. ISTM that it could be said that Musing is valuing his traditional "picture" of family life *more* than he's valuing his wife (because it's his wife he wants to change.....he's not accepting her the way she is). I guess another way of saying it would be if you had two gifts presented to you and you had to choose only one (and no changes or alterations could be made on either one.....take them just as they are)....which one would be chosen. In Musings case.....the two "gifts" would be his traditional picture.....or how things are right now. He seems willing to risk losing what he has right now in order to fight for the other. That doesn't seem like family or a wife being a top priority to me. That seems more like an idol is being made out of this fantasy picture of the ideal family life.

 

[akmom]

Well articulated.

 

[Inkachu]

Well articulated.

Agreed. Very well said.

 

[ValleyGal]

Musing has admitted a few pages back that he cannot change his wife, and is going to pray about how to change himself in order to deal with his family. He has acknowledged that he is the leader of his family and that it's his responsibility as leader to be the one to do something about the situation. He can't change his wife and he knows it.

He has an idea in his mind what marriage should look like, and he is standing by that. Imo, it would be one thing if he believed in his leadership but not the responsibility that goes with it. But he is willing to be responsible not to change his wife, but to change himself. As far as I can tell, he has admitted to his resentments, knows they are wrong, and that they contribute to an unhealthy marital dynamic. As far as I can tell, he is also making effort to accommodate her while still making sure he lives by his convictions.

I may not agree with him and his worldview and I may even feel sorry for his wife. But I have to respect the man for how he has responded to the situation - here on the board as well as owning up to at least part of his own negative contribution to their marital dynamic. He is willing to read two very relevant books that I believe are of utmost importance to a successful marriage, and he is spending time praying about his situation and what to do about it. Imo, these things, even in my disagreement with him, are worth a measure of respect.

In the same way his wife is wrestling with her feelings over the loss of her job and her physical limitations, Musing is wrestling with his feelings over the loss of his "ideal" marriage and how he is going to re-order his thinking for making the most of his less than ideal.

 

[mkgal1]

Yes....he did admit he can't change his wife.....that doesn't mean he doesn't want her to change (in order for him to be content).

I was mostly going by this, that he posted:

I also maintain, despite assertions here to the contrary, that my wife even before the accident did not place our marriage and our family first before her career and herself.

and the resentments that surround that. IMO.....that's the main issue that needs to be attended to----the resentment over that (and it may just be fabricated due to unreasonable expectations).

 

[ValleyGal]

To be fair, he also admitted his resentment and his plan to be in prayer about dealing with that resentment. Also, the Gottman book he plans to read also helps deal with resentment.

The Bible says to "confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." He has confessed this sin here, and hopefully one day he will also confess his resentment to his wife. It would go a long way in healing their marriage, imo.

But the fact is that he is taking steps and working in the right direction. Imo, and I am giving him credit for that.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[mkgal1]

That sounds great to me. You also thought out the details---how each child doing their own isn't really fitting into the overall goal (you *increase* laundry...more time.....more $$). I think that's great towards working out a solution within a set goal.

What is your main goal for your family life? Do you remember when mission statements were popular (things like "encouraging every member to be the best they can be")? I've always loved that idea for family structure as well (no matter the name of the framework). To me.....it's great to know what should be tossed out and what should be held onto.

 

[HannahT]

What i find interesting many times in this forum is - many egalitarians will say to traditionalists who are married to egalitarians something like this "If you just gave up your traditional views and embraced your spouses egalitarian views then you would eliminate the tension in your marriage and you both would be happier and things would be easier".

I don't see it that way.

What I read is you need to place some reflection about some of the 'tradition' views, and adjust them to fit your circumstance.

If you continue to jam a square block in a round hole all the time? Its just not going to work. Now if you rounded the corners of the square block a little - it may not be a perfect fit, but its closer than what is was.

You thinking is black and white. We mentioned round the square corners of your block, and you hear: YOU all what me to be a circle!

I realize there things like my "pantry incident" that could be taken different ways. I acknowledged that maybe I just need to accept she is not going show a lot of gratitude or interest in special things I do, that I have to not allow that to cause resentment to grow in me. I need to be able to things with little or no gratitude, just because I love her, and I do still love her.

Here is another example. We mention that she did acknowledge you in her own way, and that you once again wanted her reaction to be YOUR way. If its not? YOu have to learn to be up with little gratitude or interest from her.

You are placing SUCH a negative spin on this - your stinking thinking is going to make it SO much harder to reach a healthy point.

I also maintain, despite assertions here to the contrary, that my wife even before the accident did not place our marriage and our family first before her career and herself.

Maybe your view of placing the family first is different than her's.

Since its not your view - with your black and white thinking - its not caring. You could be dead dog wrong in her eyes, but unless things are viewed from your vantage point? (shrugs)

Muse - we have all been there for some circumstance in our lifes too. Problem is if we can't learn to accept that some people may never 'do things' as we would have them do - view things as we would view them - all you are ever going to be is miserable. You never seem to understand you need to learn HER - what she is capable of, accept she views things different.

That is doesn't make it wrong - it makes it different.

That's what black and white thinking does. You can't see different - you see a thorn in your side. Sadly, you have to wonder if somewhere down the line your wife and children will take on that attitude as well. It won't be a benefit to them - that's for sure!

Do you know how many people would DIE to have their children connect with their step parent? You have that, and yet your so focused on the fact you don't have whole package...you miss the truly GOOD stuff!

That connection is important, and its shows she placed effort into getting to know your children...and yet your hurt because God didn't make her Little Miss Suzie Homemaker (yes the label is sarcasm...lol couldn't resist) so you don't feel slighted.

Its not about you - or your traditional viewpoint. Its about becoming one flesh, and accepting each other for whom they are - and HOW God wonderfully made you both. You need to learn to fit together, and you have to face facts she took on ALOT marrying you. Yet, I doubt you even see that at all.

Don't go off like you have before and tell me that means she doesn't need to do this, that or the other. I can tell you have a tendency to do that. You need to quit it if you truly value your marriage. Quit the negative spin, because otherwise your resentment isn't going anywhere. Of course everyone can improve, but you seem to overlook its okay to be different. God doesn't make garbage!

You need to learn to adapt - not turn egalitarian.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Maybe your view of placing the family first is different than her's.

This is what I was asking . What is placing of family first . And specifically gender wise because he has that as the woman's priority.

 

[ValleyGal]

That is a great point you raise and that is actually something I have been working with the kids on. I realized a while ago I was too easy on my kids after the divorce. When the came on weekends, as long they kept their room relatively clean that fine.

Lately I have been having them do other things - I am not going to get into specifics because then people pick at those. Suffice to say I agree though with the chore concept.

One chore I will comment on is laundry. I don't think you can have each kid do their own laundry because of this. Each kid may wear 3 outfits each weekend. I don't want one kid washing their two pairs of jeans and then another. All the jeans need to go together. The colors need to go together. if we did it that way we would have 20 loads a week instead of 7.

But overall I agree with you are saying about the kids taking responsibility as well too, so they learn life skills.

Have a family meeting and talk about some of their ideas for distributing household chores. Maybe it will be child a this week, child be next week, child c on week 3 who will do laundry. Maybe middle two cook this week while eldest and youngest cook next week - and whoever does not cook, does the cleanup after the meal. But seriously - have a family meeting and get their input. By getting their input, you are teaching them you can work as a team, you teach them their opinion is valuable, and you teach problem-solving skills. It will also take the pressure off your wife, take some of the pressure off you, and will provide a less stressful home environment. In fact, you might even delegate leadership. Child a can distribute chores as they see fit this week, child b can do the delegating next week. They will learn leadership, but they will also learn that if they dole out too much to one child, that child will retaliate and return the load when it's their turn.

There are a lot of ways this could be dealt with, and don't have to figure out the routine, either...let them figure it out, problem-solve, etc while you facilitate and over-see the process.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Do you know how many people would DIE to have their children connect with their step parent? You have that, and yet your so focused on the fact you don't have whole package...you miss the truly GOOD stuff!

I completely agree . Yet he can feel "massively" unappreciated because she seemed to not be grateful enough to him for organizing a pantry ? A lot more had to go into not to mention its far more important that its ridiculous to even compare them into bonding with 5 step children .

 

[mkgal1]

This is what I was asking . What is placing of family first . And specifically gender wise because he has that as the woman's priority.

But if man and wife are one.......isn't the husband *also* to place the wife as top priority (and he's expected to have a job....right)?

I'm confused....Musing. Is only the wife to put husband and family first (in your opinion)? Is that what "keeper of the home" means to you? Husband's priority is his employment? That doesn't seem to fall into "love your wives" or "raise up a child in the way he may go". That seems to promote a disconnect in a family, where the wife/mother has a bond with the children and the husband is the source of income. What happens when a man may become unable to work (like ProudMommy has already experienced)? That isn't a modern occurrence (illness/injuries).

 

[mkgal1]

Its not about you - or your traditional viewpoint. Its about becoming one flesh, and accepting each other for whom they are - and HOW God wonderfully made you both. You need to learn to fit together, and you have to face facts she took on ALOT marrying you. Yet, I doubt you even see that at all.


You need to learn to adapt - not turn egalitarian.

Your whole post was excellent....but I wanted to highlight especially these points. Beautifully said!

There is a speaker I've heard that talks about "transformational leadership" compared to "transactional leadership". Moving towards "transformational" is going to benefit everyone (in every situation). It seems there's more of a dynamic of transactions going on here (people are only as valuable as their utility that's determined by the leader).

 

[Boidae]

What happens when a man may become unable to work (like ProudMommy has already experienced)? That isn't a modern occurrence (illness/injuries).

Or a woman is unable to take care of her home/kid(s) because of a physical disability and the man then stays home with the wife and kid(s)?

*I know that you have done and are doing that *muse, but what if the disability isn't what you're experiencing currently?

As someone pointed out, not all things are so black and white or cut and dry.