More and More lazy stay at home wives

[mkgal1]

My "conviction" is that I am called to be a SAHM. Its what I do. Its what I am. HOWEVER, I do not believe that what is right for me is necessarily right for any other woman.

I could have a "conviction" that every able bodied man should serve in the military. Fine...BUT...not every man is cut out for that life.

And...I am sick and tired of you pounding the bible at me at every turn. Your inflexibility is what is causing the issues in YOUR marriage. I'll be switched if you DARE talk to me about marriage. You have what? One failed marriage and another one circling the toilet? Bubba...I've been married since I was 17 years old. I've been with my husband since I was 15 years old. I'll be 50 this year. I would think that I have significantly more expertise in what makes a marriage successful than you do. However, in your arrogance you can't see past the end of your nose.

By their fruit you will recognize them.~Matthew 7:16

I'd say you and your husband have harvested great fruit. Is would be wise for others to pay attention to that.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

By their fruit you will recognize them.~Matthew 7:16

I'd say you and your husband have harvested great fruit. Is would be wise for others to pay attention to that.

Thank you! We're still a work in progress. My husband is the saint...there are times I don't like living with me!! Poor guy had to endure my "running away" when he would come home from a cruise. He came home, I left...ALONE!!!! For just a few hours but it was SO nice to be ALONE for often the first time in MONTHS! He still puts up with me...it MUST be love!

 

[HannahT]

He came home, I left...ALONE!!!! For just a few hours but it was SO nice to be ALONE for often the first time in MONTHS! He still puts up with me...it MUST be love!

(snickers)

Couldn't be alone that much! lol he ships out and you have 12 babies!

(laughs)

 

[ProudMomxmany]

(snickers)

Couldn't be alone that much! lol he ships out and you have 12 babies!

(laughs)

Yeah, well, those homecoming nights were a whole lot of fun

 

[QueSeraSera]

I agree completely that I can't change her, I can only change me. I think a lot of times I get mad at her(or resentful) when she does not react or do something the way I would in the same situation. I understand intellectually that's wrong, but its going to take a while to sink deep into me and I will have to pray about that

This is crucial . Yes pray about it . A lot.

 

[ValleyGal]

Musing, I don't actually put a lot of stock into the love language book. I agree in concept that we have different ways of communicating and receiving love, but I find the book restrictive. Tbh, it's easy to think of the languages and say "that one's mine" (or two), but in reality, we all do all, in varying degrees throughout our marriage. My husband and I talked about love languages before we married. He always thought his was touch. And yes, it is one of his primary ways of receiving love, but he rarely touches me. Instead, he gives me cards. They are really great ones, too...very appropriate, touching, and I know he chooses them carefully so they say exactly what he wants them to say. It's his way of writing me a love letter, but he says he's not good with words (I disagree, but I still love the cards).

So I do not believe that we typically give love in the same way we receive it. And in all honesty, I believe we should all express love (and recognize when it's expressed to us) in all ways. This will ensure that our spouses will know they are loved, and there is variety to the expression of that love. Not only that, but there is little to no research to support the love language model. Not that I don't think it's helpful because I do, but it should not be used as the foundational model for building a successful marriage.

I agree completely that I can't change her, I can only change me. I think a lot of times I get mad at her(or resentful) when she does not react or do something the way I would in the same situation. I understand intellectually that's wrong,

This reminds me of when my husband and I first married, and I do things very differently than he does, especially in the kitchen. I figured it would be fun to cook together for bonding time. But then I saw some of his methods...much different than my methods, and I found myself questioning what he was doing. It didn't take long before we figured out that to preserve the marriage, he would make dinner when he made dinner, without help from me. The end result was the same, so why should I care how he got there? And to be fair about the housework, we figured if he did the work of cooking, I'd do the work of cleaning, and if I cooked, he would clean. The kitchen work is the one job that needs to be done every day, and we divide it for that reason. It is unfair (to us) that whoever cooks must also clean up. We clean up what we can while the food is cooking, and whatever is left to clean after we dish up, that's the other's job.

To clarify, though, there are times when I simply can't or when he simply can't - when one of us is sick or sore, or whatever other reason. On those days, the other one will pick up the slack. It's teamwork, and it works for us. When his parents came at Christmas time, I went on a cleaning blitz and rearranged the pantry and kitchen as well, and I'm not even sure he noticed. lol. And that's okay, because after they went back home, he showed his appreciation for all I did, cleaning, preparing for their arrival, staying on top of things when they were here....he showed his appreciation after they left, and it meant more then than it would have if I had gone fishing for appreciation before that.

I do hope that you will find time for those two books. Maybe if you leave them out, maybe your wife will find them and read them too. It sounds like you could both benefit from them.

 

[cerette]

, I believe if a woman leaves her infant child with others simply because she is "bored" or "stir crazy" it is wrong. I totally realize that my conviction and belief on this may be offensive to many people in modern Western Society, but I base my beliefs about family on a Book the predates modern Western Society called the Bible. Again I realize there are many Christians who have chosen to interpret the Bible in a new way today, but I simply respectfully disagree.

I gotta say I agree 99.9% here..

 

[Avniel]

Blind post I think most people in western society is lazy. The reality is we live in a capitalistic society that breeds laziness.

 

[katautumn]

Is that an excuse?

Not an excuse, but a legitimate reason. Depression, true depression, is crippling. It's not just a mental illness, but is causes physical problems as well. When I struggled with it, I had days where it hurt just to get out of bed. It caused all sorts of other issues, as well. It caused gastro-intestinal upset, migraines, and muscle aches.

If someone is depressed, and it's affecting their ability to perform basic life functions, they need help, not being shamed because they can't keep up with the housework and made to feel like they're making excuses to be lazy.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Muse
sdmsanjose was able to cut through everything I said (whether he agreed or disagreed with all of it and see the heart of the trouble from my perspective):
when we were dating that her career would come second to our marriage and family, she never made good on that.

Two points I see in this:

First, she agreed before marriage that her career would come second to the marriage and family. According to Muse she failed to live up to the agreement

Second, anytime one spouse puts the career before marriage and family that is usually going to cause trouble in the marriage.

When you are in second or third place in a marriage everything else is very likely to become a problem. I know that at times many will not put their spouse first but there has to be a balance and obviously Muse thinks that the balance is out of whack





In my previous post I printed the Love chapter13 in First Corinthians. I am hoping that Muse can get close to accomplishing those qualities but realize that he will not be able to in his own power. I think that hurt feelings like being in second or third place with your spouse requires the spirit. I also encouraged Muse to seek a third party to help him.

By ValleyGal
It's really unpleasant when you have a bunch of people ganging up on you, telling you that you are wrong. I know. And you've definitely had that here. A lot of us think you are wrong - and most of us are coming from a woman's perspective, whether it be professonal/career or whether it be SAHW/M. Imo, if you are going to try to understand your wife and figure out how to fix your marriage, you would be wise to listen to these women, as they may very well share your wife's way of thinking

ValleyGal made some very good points in the above post. Most of the ladies are giving Muse a woman’s perspective and that can help him understand. However I think that one poster has been a little insensitive and is doing what many have been telling Muse not to do. Muse has been told to be more sensitive towards his wife’s situation and not make judgment statements that tear her down.

Making the statement about Muse’s 1st failed marriage and saying that his current marriage is in the toilet is insensitive. Also, telling Muse that
“…in your arrogance you can't see past the end of your nose.”
is doing the very thing that some of the woman has told muse to NOT do.

I am reprinting below the poster and the statement that have brought me to my conclusion above. if I have misinterpreted the statements below then please correct me.

Quote of Proudmommy
And...I am sick and tired of you pounding the bible at me at every turn. Your inflexibility is what is causing the issues in YOUR marriage. I'll be switched if you DARE talk to me about marriage. You have what? One failed marriage and another one circling the toilet? Bubba

in your arrogance you can't see past the end of your nose.

In addition to ValleyGal, I want to tell QueSeraSera, Akmom, and Christian Golfer that your posts that show you see both sides to Muse’s situation and your offering some helpful advice and questions without being insensitive is noticed and I feel can be very helpful to Muse and his wife.

I think that Muse’s has endured those that have ganged up on him quite well. Although I do not agree with some of Muse’s points I see him as a brother that is in a lot of pain and hope that we can help him so that his wife and children will have a better atmosphere at home. I think that it is also a show of Muse’s trust in the women that have responded because Muse has revealed so much about his true feeling and personal pain. Muse must value some of your posts or else he would have left this forum. I do not know if I would reveal my pain and personal life up to this forum as much as Muse has after reading some response posts that he has gotten.

I am glad that Muse has not left as I do think that some of the posts have given him some other views that maybe helpful.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

It may be "insensitive", however from what I'm reading of Muse's posts, it seems that it's all about him. He was saying his first wife was "lazy" and now his second wife is also "lazy" even though she is enduring something very painful involving essentially the loss of her identity through her career. His demands on her seem to be rather unfair and unloving. She needs help, not condemnation or demands.

I stated that I believe that some women are not cut out to be SAHMs. I am a SAHM by choice and conviction, starting a very long time ago. I have 6 daughters. 1 of them is a SAHM, 4 of them have careers and the youngest is still only 16. Muse would "biblically" condemn the girls who have careers even though some of them have children.

He knew his wife had a career when he married her. He has his children 3 days a week. His children, not hers. She is not really responsible to be a mother to those children, they have a mother. She is a stepmother. Stepmothers shouldn't really act as a "mom" unless of course, they have full custody of the children. When he has the kids, they are his responsibility, not hers.

And, I do resent the scripture quoting. I am aware of the scriptures regarding being a wife and mother. I live out my Titus 2 calling with my own daughters and other younger wives and mothers in my community and church.

I do see him as arrogant. I do see that as someone who has been married a very long time, that as life goes on and circumstances change, people need to change. What a marriage looks like a year into it, 5 years in, 10 years in, 30 years in are all different. The wife suffered an injury and is disabled. Time to change things up, not make what I see as unreasonable demands.

The story about reorganizing the pantry got to me. Ok, he reorganized the pantry. Good for him. Quizzing her on where things were located was pretty darn low. She looked, liked how it looked...end of discussion. If she is looking for something and can't find it, she can ask him where it is, not take an oral quiz on the locations of things.

 

[Avniel]

It may be "insensitive", however from what I'm reading of Muse's posts, it seems that it's all about him. He was saying his first wife was "lazy" and now his second wife is also "lazy" even though she is enduring something very painful involving essentially the loss of her identity through her career. His demands on her seem to be rather unfair and unloving. She needs help, not condemnation or demands.

I stated that I believe that some women are not cut out to be SAHMs. I am a SAHM by choice and conviction, starting a very long time ago. I have 6 daughters. 1 of them is a SAHM, 4 of them have careers and the youngest is still only 16. Muse would "biblically" condemn the girls who have careers even though some of them have children.

He knew his wife had a career when he married her. He has his children 3 days a week. His children, not hers. She is not really responsible to be a mother to those children, they have a mother. She is a stepmother. Stepmothers shouldn't really act as a "mom" unless of course, they have full custody of the children. When he has the kids, they are his responsibility, not hers.

And, I do resent the scripture quoting. I am aware of the scriptures regarding being a wife and mother. I live out my Titus 2 calling with my own daughters and other younger wives and mothers in my community and church.

I do see him as arrogant. I do see that as someone who has been married a very long time, that as life goes on and circumstances change, people need to change. What a marriage looks like a year into it, 5 years in, 10 years in, 30 years in are all different. The wife suffered an injury and is disabled. Time to change things up, not make what I see as unreasonable demands.

The story about reorganizing the pantry got to me. Ok, he reorganized the pantry. Good for him. Quizzing her on where things were located was pretty darn low. She looked, liked how it looked...end of discussion. If she is looking for something and can't find it, she can ask him where it is, not take an oral quiz on the locations of things.

Interesting when you do put it like that and after some reading I have certainly a few concerns.

1) There is a sort of self centered eliminate. The reality is most people in a capitalistic society places individualism over the community. There should be a balance, I am one of those that believe that for men in particular their spouse's come first. I heard an interesting interpretation of the scripture husband love their wives as Christ loves the church. This one pastor said God knew that society has been a place where women made sacrifices and men simple reaped the benefit. He said that because of this that sacrificial love came harder to men. They say the loss of power is similar to the process of morning. So it certainly does make sense I don't know if it's true but I certainly see his point. No matter, the reality is sacrificing oneself to build another is the most Christian thing a follower of Christ can do. Those demands are simple about a loss of power a self centered flesh.

2) I agree with you different strokes for different folks. I think that people sometimes expect you to want to live like they do because they enjoy living a certain way. You ever had a conversation about a movie with someone that loved it and you hated it? It's as if they can't comprehend why you don't like the move because your perspective, is not something they can touch and read. Not every movie is for everyone......people are different even within a culture.

3) Certainly when you marry a person you accept them and how they live life. If something is deal breaker it should have been discovered early on in the courtship particularly something like keeping a house, SAHM vs working mom.These are question that should be understood. Even with changes of life

4) I think people do forget that the Virtuous Woman was a business woman that took care of the house. I think many times men in a society that is chauvinistic are raised by stimuli that causes a woman to be more sub-servant then what is actually required for a loving relationship.

My end feeling is that people need to just do what God has said and get a way from culture. Many times we include culture with scripture with the icing on the cake being tradition. When remove outside stimuli and really build relationships on God the church will have better marriages.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Two points I see in this:

First, she agreed before marriage that her career would come second to the marriage and family. According to Muse she failed to live up to the agreement

Second, anytime one spouse puts the career before marriage and family that is usually going to cause trouble in the marriage.

When you are in second or third place in a marriage everything else is very likely to become a problem. I know that at times many will not put their spouse first but there has to be a balance and obviously Muse thinks that the balance is out of whack

The problem, IMHO, is that Muse thinks that finding the balance means his wife doing things his way.

ValleyGal made some very good points in the above post. Most of the ladies are giving Muse a woman’s perspective and that can help him understand. However I think that one poster has been a little insensitive and is doing what many have been telling Muse not to do. Muse has been told to be more sensitive towards his wife’s situation and not make judgment statements that tear her down.

Making the statement about Muse’s 1st failed marriage and saying that his current marriage is in the toilet is insensitive. Also, telling Muse that
“…in your arrogance you can't see past the end of your nose.”
is doing the very thing that some of the woman has told muse to NOT do.

I am reprinting below the poster and the statement that have brought me to my conclusion above. if I have misinterpreted the statements below then please correct me.


In addition to ValleyGal, I want to tell QueSeraSera, Akmom, and Christian Golfer that your posts that show you see both sides to Muse’s situation and your offering some helpful advice and questions without being insensitive is noticed and I feel can be very helpful to Muse and his wife.

I think that Muse’s has endured those that have ganged up on him quite well. Although I do not agree with some of Muse’s points I see him as a brother that is in a lot of pain and hope that we can help him so that his wife and children will have a better atmosphere at home. I think that it is also a show of Muse’s trust in the women that have responded because Muse has revealed so much about his true feeling and personal pain. Muse must value some of your posts or else he would have left this forum. I do not know if I would reveal my pain and personal life up to this forum as much as Muse has after reading some response posts that he has gotten.

I am glad that Muse has not left as I do think that some of the posts have given him some other views that maybe helpful.

While I appreciate the shout out to myself... I have to step in and defend ProudMom. I believe that Muse was being arrogant and condescending in his responses to her. All that stuff about it being his conviction that women stay home and care for husband and house... After she shared about her daughters not being SAHMs.... You know, Muse isn't the only one who has put their personal lives out there. What he said would push any mother's buttons. He was basically saying ProudMom's daughters aren't living biblically.

Sharing your personal frustrations doesn't give you a free pass to thump others over the head with your own interpretation of the Bible. He was dishing it, he can take some back at him. IMHO.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Its actually quite confusing what Muse has said .He said he had no issue with wives /moms working as long as her #1 priority was husband ,kids and "keeper of the home." Well sorry the same exact thing can be said about the husband .

The only alternative is that the husbands first priority is working outside the home and wife and children come 2nd ? I don't think so .Neither spouse should be "married to their job."

How that looks though (priority) is not measured in who does laundry and who does this chore and that . At least not in my book .Getting petty over this chore and that as evidence of family being priority is where it starts to get ridiculous. Yes everyone should pitch in so one person isn't having to spend all their time at home with family being the maid and the cook . The point would be to have time spent together.

I'm trying to figure out what it looks like for the wife only to have husband /children and home her priority regardless if they both work outside of home the same amount of hours?

My husband and I both worked full time same exact hours and we had one child at the time . When we came home after work there was nothing I was "supposed" to do to be the "one" of us(because I'm the wife) that had my husband ,our child and our home as my 1st priority . Or maybe that is a question . What in the world was I supposed to be doing that demonstrated that over and above anything my husband should be doing ? The bulk of the housework childcare and cooking ? While he what ? Relaxed ?

UH NO .

We came through the door and we both went into automatic mode . Weekends same thing. We didn't think about it .(chores we just did them) What we put thought into was how to spend time together . Something fun, a family outing etc. A trip the zoo , a fishing trip ,going to his parents house for dinner ,or my parents . Going out to dinner just the two of us . Picnics .

So I don't get a clear picture of how a woman specifically would demonstrate in a standoutish way how HER main priority was husband /kids/ home .

 

[akmom]

ProudMom was blunt, but she was right. If your die-hard convictions aren't working, it's time to reexamine them. I didn't see it as bragging nor tearing down, but rather speaking as an authority on the role of SAHWs. If anyone understands this lifestyle that Musings is clinging to, it's her.

 

[ValleyGal]

Coming from a professional standpoint addressing the idea of "priority," I would say my priority is my family over my work. But the two are not exclusive. I work so I can give my family extras. For example, if I were a "traditional" SAHM and I had a husband who went to work, we might not be able to afford extracurricular activities for the kids and fun times out for them and their friends, let alone driving lessons, college, etc. Plus, the occasional date night with hubby is really necessary, especially for young families.

So imo, work is a significant part of putting my family first. But...if I have appointments booked all day and I get a call about an emergency at home, I have my appointments cancelled and I hightail my hiney home to care for my family. Imo, that is what it means to put my family first. And I would absolutely expect my husband to do the same. No husband should put his work before his family.

It would also mean to not take a job that would have me away from them for weeks at a time. I went for three months of training away from home a couple of years ago, and although it was broken up with the occasional week at home, it was too long to be away, and it was hard on my son. That's fine for a short-term like the three months, but if it was a permanent part of my job, I would look for another job.

But...the "priority" I place on my family does not mean that if husband and I both work 40 hours that I need to make sure I have enough energy left to do the "home" stuff like childcare, laundry, cleaning and cooking, etc, that's nothing more than a man who is lazy, expecting his wife to do it all when he is perfectly capable of helping.

So when it comes to the agreement prior to Musing marrying his wife, if this was not clarified, I can see how they are not on the same page as they try to live it out. I believe Musing's wife likely does put her step-children ahead of her work. I'm sure if one of them were in crisis and bio mom and dad were not available, she'd likely leave work early to go home and meet their needs. Imo, that is putting them first. Putting them first does not mean doing chores. In fact, the kids live there nearly half the time, so maybe the kids should be doing the chores when they are there. They sound old enough to be doing some of the cooking and cleaning, and they should do it because they use those amenities.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[QueSeraSera]

That's another good point Valley Gal I think I tried to point that out before. Working outside the home for a woman is no less putting her family first than a man working outside the home .

 

[ValleyGal]

She completely turned around, into a totally different person, and her marriage is happier for it.

While that might have worked for them and their marriage, there are very few women who believe that we need to change anything to be a totally different person. I like the person I am - and that includes being opinionated (because I can be tactful about my opinions), and being strong-willed (I won't be swept away by those who try to manipulate me), and I have a fierce loyalty and love for the people close to me. I like who I am, and I should not have to change any of that to become a "totally different person". I am who God created me to be, and I know myself well enough to know what kind of man I should or should not marry. Iow, he has to be strong enough to walk beside me....and I, him.

The thing is, Musing, is that your wife sounds like a career woman - in fact, she gave up the idea of having children just so she could keep her career. That's never going to change, even with a disability. And you are a more "traditional" minded husband. There has to be some give and take on both your parts...but I firmly believe that if you want to maintain that "leadership" position that you value so much, more of the onus is on you to do more of the giving for her sake. Part of leadership is being flexible enough to meet the needs of your followers....and that includes your wife as a career woman, as a woman who is struggling with a disability that will likely need to change her career goals, as a step-parent (rather than bio parent), etc.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I realize there things like my "pantry incident" that could be taken different ways. I acknowledged that maybe I just need to accept she is not going show a lot of gratitude or interest in special things I do, that I have to not allow that to cause resentment to grow in me. I need to be able to things with little or no gratitude, just because I love her, and I do still love her.

The thing with the pantry incident for me is its unrealistic to expect that the average person would think that is such a big ordeal that needs all this gratitude in the first place.

You said you felt "massively unappreciated" .It really sounds over the top dramatic to have such a reaction over something like that . If you consider organizing a pantry one Sunday afternoon such an important sacrifice you made I could not live with someone like that myself .