Moon it's own source of light

Does the moon give it's own light?

  • Yes

  • No


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SkyWriting

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i can't see the blue moon shadow in this CGI. Don't get carried away, I think you'll be standing alone on this one.

I'm not worried. I looked into this 50 years ago.

What color is earthshine? - Astronomy Stack Exchange

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com › questions › what-color-is-earthshine

The light from Earth into space has a blueish colour, and when that light reflects from the Moon and is seen by someone on Earth it is a bit less blue because the lunar surface reflects yellow light more than blue. The net effect is to give us earthshine that is blueish, or turquoise.


Click the video to 2:20 if you are in a hurry.

 
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SkyWriting

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Nope, I'm one of those guys.

But seriously, that's how light propagates, diminishing in intensity according to inverse square. Inverse Square Law Formula

Moonlight intensity generally between 0.5-1 lux.
Moonlight - Wikipedia

Moon distance: 384,400km
https://www.google.com.au/search?client=opera&q=distance+to+moon&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Inverse square calculator (download):
Inverse Square Law of Light Calculator | International Light Technologies

Run 0.75 @ 384,000 distance to X @ 1 distance.
X= 1.11e11

Argal the moon's brightness at 1km above the surface (light side) should be (drum roll)...
111,000,000,000 lux.

Now Luxembourg may be small, but I'm guessing that's pretty bright.

Maybe you can help a little by running it through the lux to lumens to wattage calculators?


The visible shadowed part of the moon is "earthshine" and measured here:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JD003610
 
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SPF

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Nope, I'm one of those guys.

But seriously, that's how light propagates, diminishing in intensity according to inverse square. Inverse Square Law Formula

Moonlight intensity generally between 0.5-1 lux.
Moonlight - Wikipedia

Moon distance: 384,400km
https://www.google.com.au/search?client=opera&q=distance+to+moon&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Inverse square calculator (download):
Inverse Square Law of Light Calculator | International Light Technologies

Run 0.75 @ 384,000 distance to X @ 1 distance.
X= 1.11e11

Argal the moon's brightness at 1km above the surface (light side) should be (drum roll)...
111,000,000,000 lux.

Now Luxembourg may be small, but I'm guessing that's pretty bright.

Maybe you can help a little by running it through the lux to lumens to wattage calculators?
The moon and the inverse-square law
renderTimingPixel.png

I have heard flatties claim that the brightness of the moon and the inverse-square law proves that the moon could NOT be 238 thousand miles away. All this proves is that some people do not understand the inverse-square law. A crude explanation is when you double the distance, you quarter the power density (number of photons in the same "window"). If you triple the distance, the result is 1/9th the power density.

The equation

The equation is "near distance divided by the square of the farther distance". So if the near distance was 2 feet, and the farther distance is 4 feet, 2 / 4² = 0.25 (or 1/4). In that case, we doubled the distance, which resulted in 1/2 the power density. I'm fairly sure we all get that part.

How the inverse-square law is applied improperly

Here's what some flatties don't seem to get[1]. Sunlight travels about 93 million miles to the Earth. The moon is 238k miles from the Earth. Let's round up to a quarter million. So when the moon is on the side of the Earth nearer to the sun, that light traveled 92.75 million miles to hit the moon. When the moon is on the far-side, the light reflecting off it traveled 93.25 million miles to the moon. We will ignore the remaining trip from the moon to the Earth. 92.75 / 93.25 = 0.989304889706675.

The result

This means when we look at the moon while it is at farthest point from the sun, it will be at only 98.93% of it's maximum brightness due to the inverse-square law.

Here is a simple experiment that proves I am right:

  1. Stand 5 feet from a building during daylight, and notice how bright it is.

  2. Move to 10 feet away, and note how bright it is. Is it 1/4 as bright?

  3. Move to 20 feet away, is it now 1/16 the original brightness?

  4. Now move to 40 feet away. Is it 1/64th the original brightness?
This is why we cannot just apply the inverse-square law to any situation.

One other thing

It is important to note is that the inverse-square law only applies to unfocused emissions. A laser pointer has an almost identical power density at 10 feet that it has at 20 feet, but if you tried to apply the inverse-square law to it, you would expect it be at quarter power when at 20 feet. A laser pointer is very focused. By the time sunlight has travelled 93 million miles, it is also very focused.

And:

One big thing to realize is that the inverse square law refers to the total amount of light sent by an object that's received by a receiver (like a camera or eyeball). Imagine you're standing ten feet away from an object, and you're receiving 1 candela from the object; you move so you're twenty feet away, and now you're receiving 1/4 candela. Reasonable, right?

But note that you're now twice as far away, so the object also appears half as large along each direction. That 1/4 candela is concentrated into an area one quarter as large. If you had a laser-tight brightness point-sensor, and you pointed it at the object, you would find that the object is exactly as bright as it was before, it's just smaller. The total amount of light you're receiving is smaller, but it's smaller exactly proportional to the size of the object.

The thing that's almost counterintuitive is that you cannot make something dimmer by moving further away, you only make it smaller. Eventually it's so small that you can't perceive it as having any actual size, but even then, with a sufficiently powerful telescope, you'll discover that it's still not getting any dimmer (per solid arc), just smaller (less solid arc).

(Unless there's dust or gas or something in the way, of course.)

Taken from Reddit.
 
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d taylor

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It would be nice to see the people who say/believe the moon is reflecting the suns light and that is the moons light source a reflected light from the sun.

It would nice to see that reproduced in a model/experiment reproducing how a camera records the light from the moon.

Take an object representing the moon shine a light on the moon model (to reproduce the reflected light like is stated to be the moon light ) and reproduce a photo like this one of the moon (below), a brightly lit object.

DSCN5770+.jpg

The same kind of light reproduced photo can be made of a light (incandescent light).

DSCN6093+.jpg


Lets see a photo from a light reflected object to match the above photos of a light.
 
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SPF

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It would be nice to see the people who say/believe the moon is reflecting the suns light and that is the moons light source a reflected light from the sun.

It would nice to see that reproduced in a model/experiment reproducing how a camera records the light from the moon.

Take an object representing the moon shine a light on the moon model (to reproduce the reflected light like is stated to be the moon light ) and reproduce a photo like this one of the moon (below), a brightly lit object.

View attachment 266008
The same kind of light reproduced photo can be made of a light (incandescent light).

View attachment 266009

Lets see a photo from a light reflected object to match the above photos of a light.
Im still waiting for an explanation as to what is actually causing the moon to put off its own light.

We know how the sun puts out its own light. We know how a lightbulb puts out its own light.... I still haven’t heard how the moon puts out its own light.

I still haven’t heard the explanation for the phases of the moon.

Anyone?
 
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The moon and the inverse-square law
renderTimingPixel.png

I have heard flatties claim that the brightness of the moon and the inverse-square law proves that the moon could NOT be 238 thousand miles away. All this proves is that some people do not understand the inverse-square law. A crude explanation is when you double the distance, you quarter the power density (number of photons in the same "window"). If you triple the distance, the result is 1/9th the power density.

The equation

The equation is "near distance divided by the square of the farther distance". So if the near distance was 2 feet, and the farther distance is 4 feet, 2 / 4² = 0.25 (or 1/4). In that case, we doubled the distance, which resulted in 1/2 the power density. I'm fairly sure we all get that part.

How the inverse-square law is applied improperly

Here's what some flatties don't seem to get[1]. Sunlight travels about 93 million miles to the Earth. The moon is 238k miles from the Earth. Let's round up to a quarter million. So when the moon is on the side of the Earth nearer to the sun, that light traveled 92.75 million miles to hit the moon. When the moon is on the far-side, the light reflecting off it traveled 93.25 million miles to the moon. We will ignore the remaining trip from the moon to the Earth. 92.75 / 93.25 = 0.989304889706675.

The result

This means when we look at the moon while it is at farthest point from the sun, it will be at only 98.93% of it's maximum brightness due to the inverse-square law.

Here is a simple experiment that proves I am right:

  1. Stand 5 feet from a building during daylight, and notice how bright it is.

  2. Move to 10 feet away, and note how bright it is. Is it 1/4 as bright?

  3. Move to 20 feet away, is it now 1/16 the original brightness?

  4. Now move to 40 feet away. Is it 1/64th the original brightness?
This is why we cannot just apply the inverse-square law to any situation.

One other thing

It is important to note is that the inverse-square law only applies to unfocused emissions. A laser pointer has an almost identical power density at 10 feet that it has at 20 feet, but if you tried to apply the inverse-square law to it, you would expect it be at quarter power when at 20 feet. A laser pointer is very focused. By the time sunlight has travelled 93 million miles, it is also very focused.

And:

One big thing to realize is that the inverse square law refers to the total amount of light sent by an object that's received by a receiver (like a camera or eyeball). Imagine you're standing ten feet away from an object, and you're receiving 1 candela from the object; you move so you're twenty feet away, and now you're receiving 1/4 candela. Reasonable, right?

But note that you're now twice as far away, so the object also appears half as large along each direction. That 1/4 candela is concentrated into an area one quarter as large. If you had a laser-tight brightness point-sensor, and you pointed it at the object, you would find that the object is exactly as bright as it was before, it's just smaller. The total amount of light you're receiving is smaller, but it's smaller exactly proportional to the size of the object.

The thing that's almost counterintuitive is that you cannot make something dimmer by moving further away, you only make it smaller. Eventually it's so small that you can't perceive it as having any actual size, but even then, with a sufficiently powerful telescope, you'll discover that it's still not getting any dimmer (per solid arc), just smaller (less solid arc).

(Unless there's dust or gas or something in the way, of course.)

Taken from Reddit.

I just took the average brightness of the moon as seen from earth allegedly 384,000km away, then plugged that 0.75 lux number into the light inverse square calculator and changed the distance to 1km. This is treating the moon as a flashlight/ spotlight etc.

And the result was 'blinding'.

Waffle aside, what specifically do you say is the problem with this method?
 
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A_Thinker

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It is curious that the properties of sunlight and moonlight are fundamentally different. How would you explain that, my furry friend?
How do you demonstrate that they are (different) ?

BTW ... this earlier statement of yours is bunk ...

"First, the properties of sunlight and moonlight are entirely different. The former is hot and produces dessication, the latter cool and produces putrefaction."

The process of putrefaction requires no light, ... and for bodies buried in the earth ... receives no light.
 
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How do you demonstrate that they are (different) ?

I ask a farmer. Ever heard of a harvest moon? Or a woman. Or a surfer. There are so many different and various solar and lunar effects it would be hard to catalogue them. Perhaps only a 'lunatic' would deny it!
 
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The process of putrefaction requires no light, ... and for bodies buried in the earth ... receives no light.

Not if it's in a wooden box. There are other variables under the earth - moisture being one.
 
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I'm not worried. I looked into this 50 years ago.

What color is earthshine? - Astronomy Stack Exchange

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com › questions › what-color-is-earthshine

The light from Earth into space has a blueish colour, and when that light reflects from the Moon and is seen by someone on Earth it is a bit less blue because the lunar surface reflects yellow light more than blue. The net effect is to give us earthshine that is blueish, or turquoise.


Click the video to 2:20 if you are in a hurry.


So we can faintly see the remainder of the lunar face during a crescent etc 'coz earthshine'? That's it, just an assertion? And unfalsifiable as well, because we can never remove or cover up the earth to test it out. Couldn't be just the residual from the lit area of the moon, by any chance?

Horse hockey, my friend.
 
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A_Thinker

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Not if it's in a wooden box. There are other variables under the earth - moisture being one.
That's not an adequate response to my objection. You, essentially, just partially agreed with me ... and then went on to admit that other variables cause the effect you were attributing to moonlight.

Another objection is that dead things do rot (or putrefy in your terms) in the sun ...
 
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A_Thinker

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I ask a farmer. Ever heard of a harvest moon? Or a woman. Or a surfer. There are so many different and various solar and lunar effects it would be hard to catalogue them. Perhaps only a 'lunatic' would deny it!
What does a harvest moon have to do with anything ? Does its brief appearance suddenly cause all exposed road-kill (for example) to decay on the spot ?
 
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SPF

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Can nobody explain how the moon produces its own light? Is there no explanation?

is there any explanation for why the self-producing light of the moon turns off as if it’s being blocked?

I understand scientifically how the sun produces it’s light. What’s the explanation for the moon producing it’s own light?

Anyone?
 
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SPF

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Another example of light being emitted by the moon.

View attachment 266032
A close up of the two areas.

View attachment 266034

View attachment 266033
Have you not found it maybe a little... I dunno, telling? That the points of light in the dark area are always restricted to an area very close to the “line” where the dark meets the light?

let’s consider which explanation makes more sense:

1) The angel in charge of turning the light on and off is doing a poor job and can’t get them all off in time and so there’s always one or two moon bulbs still on right at the edge.

2) You’re capturing a higher point of land.. a mountain if you will that is still reflecting the light of the sun.

Again, can someone who believes the moon is its own light source actually tell me how it works? Are there ANY ideas on this?
 
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d taylor

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Have you not found it maybe a little... I dunno, telling? That the points of light in the dark area are always restricted to an area very close to the “line” where the dark meets the light?

let’s consider which explanation makes more sense:

1) The angel in charge of turning the light on and off is doing a poor job and can’t get them all off in time and so there’s always one or two moon bulbs still on right at the edge.

2) You’re capturing a higher point of land.. a mountain if you will that is still reflecting the light of the sun.

Again, can someone who believes the moon is its own light source actually tell me how it works? Are there ANY ideas on this?

I was wondering, do you believe in evolution.
 
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SPF

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I was wondering, do you believe in evolution.
My answer to that question has absolutely no bearing upon the answers to my questions. I have no problem answering that, but I don’t play the answer questions with questions game. Answer my question and then ask one yourself.


Again, can someone who believes the moon is its own light source actually tell me how it works? Are there ANY ideas on this?
 
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SkyWriting

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So we can faintly see the remainder of the lunar face during a crescent etc 'coz earthshine'? That's it, just an assertion? And unfalsifiable as well, because we can never remove or cover up the earth to test it out. Couldn't be just the residual from the lit area of the moon, by any chance?

Earthshine has been measured for decades. The bright part of the moon is sunshine.
The dark glow from it's shadow is earth shine and is colored more blue, from the earth shining on it. You can check the color to show the glow is from the earth.
You can point lasers at the moon and get relections back from mirrors we left there.

Reflectors placed by the United States
Name Mission Date Location
Lunar Ranging Retro Reflector (LRRR)[1]
Apollo 11 21 July 1969[3] 0.67337°N, 23.47293°E[4]
LRRR[1] Apollo 14 31 January 1971[5] 3.6453° S, 17.471361° W [5]
LRRR[1] (larger than previous ones, 105x65 cm) Apollo 15 31 July 1971[6] 26.1°N, 3.6°E[6]


Reflectors placed by the Soviet Union[edit]

Name Mission Date Location
Lunokhod 1[1][a]
Luna 17 17 November 1970[7]
17px-WMA_button2b.png
38.315°N 35.008°W[8][9]
Lunokhod 2[1][a] Luna 21 15 January 1973[10]
17px-WMA_button2b.png
25.8323°N 30.9221°E[11][12]
 
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