Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[DaisyDay]

Those are different racial outcomes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/08/racism-our-curriculums-isnt-limited-history-its-math-too/

Why did you think people are saying ridiculous stuff like "math is racist" these days?

That's a system that creates different racial outcomes. That's what you call "systemic racism". I know it sounds like a absurd position to hold....but that's the position you're taking.

They're even suggesting eliminating "grades" to fix this supposed "problem".

Professor says grading system is racist, proposes labor-based system: 'White language supremacy'

An Arizona State University professor is calling for the end to “White supremacy language,” and to do away with the common way of grading papers in favor of labor-based grading

www.foxnews.com

Explain why this is a problem?

Do you even understand what you're supporting?

Did you even read the Post article? It is about how Western mathematicians are identified by name (e.g. Euclid) while Chinese mathematicians are not. Rather than identifying the theorums of Sun Tzu and Mei-Ko Kwan by their authors, they are referred to as simply "Chinese".

 

[Ana the Ist]

Same thing with better qualified
Asian students discriminated against
in favour of other races.

Oh I was intending to bring up asians....not whites. It's @SilverBear that assumed I cared about white admissions...surveys have shown whites lie about their racial background on college applications anyway.

Asian students are being denied opportunities that would be thrown at them if they were black.

This is all beside the point....it's not as if these people don't know what they're doing. For whatever reason, they don't like the idea of a student body that's 50% Asian and they also feel completely justified in just denying jobs to men who lack enough melanin.

It's not as if they don't know what they're doing/supporting. They just think that their brand of racism, their reasons for being racist, are good reasons. I don't think good reasons for racism exist.... I think most racists just imagined themselves having good reasons.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Did you even read the Post article? It is about how Western mathematicians are identified by name (e.g. Euclid) while Chinese mathematicians are not. Rather than identifying the theorums of Sun Tzu and Mei-Ko Kwan by their authors, they are referred to as simply "Chinese".

If I did....I'm afraid it's now behind a paywall. Remind me at the start of next month and I'll look again.

The argument is spurious if I remember correctly. Nobody is suggesting that we do things like rename mathematical theorems in Chinese. Instead, the argument of "colonized mathematics" or westernized or whatever they want to call it becomes an excuse to avoid teaching math and injecting racial theories into the curriculum instead. DeSantis got rid of some math textbooks that did this if you need examples.

 

[DaisyDay]

If I did....I'm afraid it's now behind a paywall. Remind me at the start of next month and I'll look again.

The argument is spurious if I remember correctly. Nobody is suggesting that we do things like rename mathematical theorems in Chinese. Instead, the argument of "colonized mathematics" or westernized or whatever they want to call it becomes an excuse to avoid teaching math and injecting racial theories into the curriculum instead. DeSantis got rid of some math textbooks that did this if you need examples.

Here, no paywall. You're welcome.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are they trying to say blacks can't score high enough on their own? Are they trying to say blacks are too dumb so they have to be given extra points?

What's going on here?

I think there was a good argument for affirmative action when it was implemented. The legal equality that was reached was to be helped out with a slight advantage in opportunities that had been denied to a 2nd class citizen group. The idea being that this would allow a more rapid progress in those previously denied communities....aka reparations.

Over time...the advantage would be reduced and eliminated in favor of a purely meritorious system. For a lot of reasons, that didn't happen, and instead the advantage seems to have grown into a distorted vestige of institutional racism.

It didn't entirely fail....a significant black middle class emerged from the same time period, but it seems to be doing more harm than good now.

 

[Ken-1122]

No, you are continuing to misunderstand the term "represent". The CBC was not referring to "black people"

I never said they were. Obviously the vast majority of the people they represent are gonna be white; if they were only representing black people, their percentages would have been restricted to 13% rather than over 25%.

but to senators and representatives of Congress who are black and how much of the population they represent as elected officials.

That is exactly the point I was making. Sounds like we understand each other.

 

[Astrid]

Oh I was intending to bring up asians....not whites. It's @SilverBear that assumed I cared about white admissions...surveys have shown whites lie about their racial background on college applications anyway.

Asian students are being denied opportunities that would be thrown at them if they were black.

This is all beside the point....it's not as if these people don't know what they're doing. For whatever reason, they don't like the idea of a student body that's 50% Asian and they also feel completely justified in just denying jobs to men who lack enough melanin.

It's not as if they don't know what they're doing/supporting. They just think that their brand of racism, their reasons for being racist, are good reasons. I don't think good reasons for racism exist.... I think most racists just imagined themselves having good reasons.

Of course. Anti Asian laws were passed for
the good of the country.
Same as all such, they are for good
reasons, yes, such very good reasons.

I didn't as it turnrd out, marry my white
boyfriend. But time was when I couldn't
have, it was illegal.
Imagine me polluting racial purity.

But all that is so in the past, except for
few bitter clingers.

 

[Astrid]

If I did....I'm afraid it's now behind a paywall. Remind me at the start of next month and I'll look again.

The argument is spurious if I remember correctly. Nobody is suggesting that we do things like rename mathematical theorems in Chinese. Instead, the argument of "colonized mathematics" or westernized or whatever they want to call it becomes an excuse to avoid teaching math and injecting racial theories into the curriculum instead. DeSantis got rid of some math textbooks that did this if you need examples.

Chinese names sound weird and
are hard for non Chinese to remember.
I adopted an "American" name as
student.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here, no paywall. You're welcome.

Hey thanks,

@DaisyDay that was really nice of you...you certainly didn't have to share that with me. Because you did, I'll admit right off the bat that article isn't the best example of the point I was making. It still works, but that would involve explaining (and showing) why it's propaganda deliberately crafted to mislead readers on the subject. It's actually a pretty good example of possible racism in mathematics (although there's certainly other explanations he didn't explore at all...because he wants to convince you it's racism) and it has absolutely nothing to do with changes to the public schools math curriculums across the nation.

Like I said, it's a spurious explanation. When a news source is offering what appears to be factual information in service of a political agenda....that's propaganda.

Now, you were nice enough to share the paid for article with me....so I'll let you decide if you want me to explain the way I can tell it's propaganda, the message it wants to sell, the agenda it serves, etc....or if you just want to take my admission that it's not the best example of the point I was trying to make and leave it at that.

 

[SilverBear]

It's not deprioritizing is discriminating.

exactly how is being told to not give preferential treatment in hiring discrimination?

Deprioritize is just a nice word for discriminate against. If they were asked to deprioritize black men you would be against that. It doesn't matter who it's being used against. It's all discrimination.

not if black men were being given preferential treatment in hiring.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Chinese names sound weird and
are hard for non Chinese to remember.
I adopted an "American" name as
student.

I think it's because there's so many different ways to write certain names that developed at different times.


Still, I don't know if this is necessarily racism....the fact that the historical record of China goes so far back that it could cast doubt on the origin of the theorem....or the fact that war and the subsequent cultural revolution changed the nature of Chinese cultural exchange forever and further obscured any attempts at finding origins.

Or it could be as the author suggests....deliberate racism.

 

[SilverBear]

Was there some sort of admission that they were prioritizing white men? That's a rather large assumption. Where is the proof they were doing that?

where is the proof they were forbidden from hiring white men?

 

[SilverBear]

I don't see how that relates to what I said.

and how sad is that?

 

[Ana the Ist]

exactly how is being told to not give preferential treatment in hiring discrimination?

They are being told to give preferential treatment... to everyone but white men.

They got deprioritized.

not if black men were being given preferential treatment in hiring.

At least in 1 out of 6 places of employment they are.

 

[SilverBear]

It's elsewhere made more explicit

where?

 

[Ana the Ist]

and how sad is that?

I don't know if I'd call it sad....it's pretty typical. If you really didn't know what deprioritize meant...you can just look it up.

I'm not sure why you're struggling to avoid the obvious. It's not like it's a big secret that the Democratic Party wants to institute racial discrimination in all sorts of opportunities including hiring.

 

[SilverBear]

They are being told to give preferential treatment... to everyone but white men.

They got deprioritized.




At least in 1 out of 6 places of employment they are.

except they aren't

 

[rturner76]

I think most racists just imagined themselves having good reasons.

Do you have personal experience with this? Is your racism justified?

 

[SilverBear]

I don't know if I'd call it sad....it's pretty typical. If you really didn't know what deprioritize meant...you can just look it up.

I did. I quoted that definition. You ignored it

 

[rjs330]

not if black men were being given preferential treatment in hiring.

It sounds like in 1 in 6 places they are. Is that right?