Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[IWalkAlone]

Its racist. Thats my only point.

But its democrats not the USA who are discriminating.

 

[IWalkAlone]

I asked you if "any kind" of effort should be made

Sure, what do you propose?

 

[IWalkAlone]

Instead of looking at the details of why it happens - if it does- it alk goes to
" systemic racism ".

For which, to many, the answer is, " burn jt all down".

Burn it down when the system isn't the problem? Burn down the ghetto. That might be better. Get out of the ghetto mentality

 

[IWalkAlone]

Unfortunately studies of the outcomes AFTER ARREST show a similar bias for white offenders. Black offenders will usually have a higher rate of conviction and a harsher sentence than the white offender.

So it doesn't matter if they were slangin' on a street corner or in mommy and daddy's den, once arrested it is still systemically racist against the black offenders.

Maybe black offenders have a longer criminal record. They do disproportinately commit more crime.

 

[IWalkAlone]

The fact that a statistical signal shows up across a large number of analyses indicates there is something systemic.



Perhaps a restructuring of the limits of prosecutorial options. For example, right now a prosecutor can layer charges as a means of threatening a defendant into pleading to a charge. Often these layered charges are made up of additional charges which the prosecutor has ZERO chance of getting to stick but they can present them to the defendant as if they are a certainty and will MASSIVELY increase their prison time if convicted. Given that poor people (often black) will have less access to a good defense this is why so many plea deals are struck without a trial.

Also there are things that can be done about sentencing guidelines.

There are a large number of things that can be done mechanistically in the justice system. And that's just the justice system itself.

So its because black Americans don't have good lawyers? Thats not systemic racism.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Terrif.

Did you analyze blm statements for a quote such as i asked for?

You may be right in all you say. For some reason you take
my asking for details as being hostile.
My racial group has faced plenty of persecution and bias in the USA,
and it hasnt stopped.
What Ive seen so far is refusal to answer, personal remarks,
and vague generalizations citing unreferenced studies.

Id be happy enough to be presented with clear data about
racial issues in the USA, even though its not my prob.

Seems mostly there"s posturing and finger pointing.

Data says black americans disproportionately commit more crime. Does that explain why they do more time?

 

[Parmallia]

Thats not systemic,

Incorrect. It is a perfectly valid definition of a systemic issue. If it cuts across all other variables and is endemic to the justice system (as the studies show) then it is systemic.

there is no law you can point to that is responsible for that

Then you don't understand the point I made. MANY of the sources of systemic racism arise precisely because the laws are written to allow prosecutorial discretion and that is quite broad and winds up being used (so the data shows) to ensure worse outcomes for blacks vs whites. All quite legal, but totally up to the discretion of how the rules are applied.

. Do you think because they commit more crime that might be why they do more time?

It's almost like you are forbidden from reading any of the studies. If you need help with the words or something I can provide some help. But I can't teach you how to read. That is beyond my pay grade and should have been taken care of in elementary school.

 

[Parmallia]

So its because black Americans don't have good lawyers? Thats not systemic racism.

That's EXACTLY systemic racism. Did you not even read one word in my post? You just knee-jerk respond to things you didn't even read????

Please, take some time, a remedial reading course and come back.

 

[IWalkAlone]

And in America that is a great proxy. The median household income for a black family in the USA is SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN FOR A WHITE FAMILY.

So, yeah, class factors in. But interestingly enough class is also quite well correlated with race in America.

That's systemic.



That's a fair critique to some extent. I'm sure there may be studies to that effect, which I may take some time to try to track down in they exist. But as noted earlier it is a very well done system. When you take a system in which PERSONAL WEALTH is heavily correlated with race and then make your justice system one in which wealth consistently purchases better outcomes you are still stuck with a racist system. In fact a much more powerful system of racism than just prosecutorial and judge-related overreachs alone!

But it isn't just there! In schools white kids get disciplined much less severely than black kids. And that isn't a matter of who can afford the best defender.

Racial disparities in school-based disciplinary actions are associated with county-level rates of racial bias

It is REALLY HARD not to see the race component in our society.

Whites might have more education which would explain the wealth gap. Its not an example of systemic racism

 

[Parmallia]

Instead of looking at the details of why it happens - if it does- it alk goes to
" systemic racism ".

For which, to many, the answer is, " burn jt all down".

I wish your posts made a bit more sense. It seems like you have something to say of some importance.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Alert! There is systemic racism in America
But Surprise!
It favours Asians!

If its systemic its within the liberal universities, not america.

 

[Parmallia]

Whites might have more education which would explain the wealth gap. Its not an example of systemic racism

Am I to assume you think that the really well-known graph comparing median household incomes means that blacks are somehow overall on average inferior?

You can't look at this graph and NOT see systemic racism unless you think blacks are on average somehow inferior.

So by all means SAY OUT LOUD WHAT YOU THINK. Please. WHY are blacks and hispanics so much lower on median household income (MEDIAN, not mean...which means that extremes are less of a leverage point).

 

[Parmallia]

If its systemic its within the liberal universities, not america.

That point doesn't even begin to make sense. Sorry. Why don't you cool down a bit, collect your thoughts and try making it again.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Incorrect. It is a perfectly valid definition of a systemic issue. If it cuts across all other variables and is endemic to the justice system (as the studies show) then it is systemic.



Then you don't understand the point I made. MANY of the sources of systemic racism arise precisely because the laws are written to allow prosecutorial discretion and that is quite broad and winds up being used (so the data shows) to ensure worse outcomes for blacks vs whites. All quite legal, but totally up to the discretion of how the rules are applied.



It's almost like you are forbidden from reading any of the studies. If you need help with the words or something I can provide some help. But I can't teach you how to read. That is beyond my pay grade and should have been taken care of in elementary school.

So you resulted in personal attacks rather than addressing my point. There are things to consider. Do black offenders have a longer criminal record? If so this might explain why they get longer sentences.

 

[IWalkAlone]

That's EXACTLY systemic racism. Did you not even read one word in my post? You just knee-jerk respond to things you didn't even read????
Please, take some time, a remedial reading course and come back.

More insults. They are unnecessary. I can't afford a good lawyer. Is it because of systemic racism?

 

[IWalkAlone]

Am I to assume you think that the really well-known graph comparing median household incomes means that blacks are somehow overall on average inferior?

You can't look at this graph and NOT see systemic racism unless you think blacks are on average somehow inferior.

So by all means SAY OUT LOUD WHAT YOU THINK. Please. WHY are blacks and hispanics so much lower on median household income (MEDIAN, not mean...which means that extremes are less of a leverage point).

You ignored my point, failing to address it, and posted a graph.

 

[Parmallia]

So you resulted in personal attacks rather than addressing my point.

I addressed your point in the manner it was deserving.

There are things to consider. Do black offenders have a longer criminal record? If so this might explain why they get longer sentences.

I wonder why they might have a longer criminal record?

Is it because, well, you know..."they" are more prone to crime?

C'mon. Just say out loud what you are thinking. WHY do you think they have a longer criminal record?

Just. Say. It. Out. Loud.

 

[Parmallia]

You ignored my point, failing to address it, and posted a graph.

I'm sorry if you don't know how to read a graph. You should learn about it in junior high when you get to algebra.

 

[Estrid]

If its systemic its within the liberal universities, not america.

Obviously, though there is no "if",

Talk of systemic is not restricted to that which affects the entire nation.

 

[IWalkAlone]

That point doesn't even begin to make sense. Sorry. Why don't you cool down a bit, collect your thoughts and try making it again.

What? I'm cool. Lol. Refute my point rather than bear false witness.