Missing link was a lie

[AV1611VET]

Anything else of note there?

No, sir; that about covers it, bro.

It's too bad though that some people see God ordering a strike on people -- and that's all they see.

Even when it's in a vision.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

No, sir; that about covers it, bro.

It's too bad though that some people see God ordering a strike on people -- and that's all they see.

Even when it's in a vision.

How else would you explain the fact that there is one official brand of christianity (Catholicism), and over 33,000 variations thereof.

Apparently people look at god, and see a whole bunch of different things.

 

[dad]

No, sir; that about covers it, bro.

It's too bad though that some people see God ordering a strike on people -- and that's all they see.

Even when it's in a vision.

Exactly. I wonder if part o f the problem is the philosophy that man is basically good, as opposed to a desperately wicked sinner? So they need to paint God as some sort of evil monster?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Exactly. I wonder if part o f the problem is the philosophy that man is basically good, as opposed to a desperately wicked sinner? So they need to paint God as some sort of evil monster?

And more irony from dad. It is not "man" but biblical literalists who paint God as not only some sort of evil monster but the worst sort. One who botches up his creation and then murders nearly everything with a global flood. One who not that long after the flood orders his "chosen people" to commit all kinds of atrocities against people who are after all their close relatives from the recent time their ancestor all came off the boat together. One who harded pharoh's heart to give Him an excuse to send all kinds of atrocities against the Egyptian people (also recent close relatives in your myth). You are the ones who say that God literally committed or ordered all those atrocities and complain that others are trying paint God as an evil monster. How could anyone paint a picture of an evil monster more evil that the one that you have painted?

 

[dad]

And more irony from dad. It is not "man" but biblical literalists who paint God as not only some sort of evil monster but the worst sort. One who botches up his creation and then murders nearly everything with a global flood. One who not that long after the flood orders his "chosen people" to commit all kinds of atrocities against people who are after all their close relatives from the recent time their ancestor all came off the boat together. One who harded pharoh's heart to give Him an excuse to send all kinds of atrocities against the Egyptian people (also recent close relatives in your myth). You are the ones who say that God literally committed or ordered all those atrocities and complain that others are trying paint God as an evil monster. How could anyone paint a picture of an evil monster more evil that the one that you have painted?

Justice is not evil, the lack of it is, and that is what wicked men have today. God has justice tempered with kindness, patience, and mercy. The bible does not paint God as evil, and bible believers understand that God is good. His guiding hand, when it had to be withdrawn at times, because of outright genuine deep wickedness, resulted in terrible things. Allowing other wicked men to come in and do their thing with His people, or etc.

In order to save men, He required a people. We know how He healed multitudes of people, and fed them, and loved the children. That was the face of God, and the heart of God. Giving His son to die to save men is the heart of God. The atrocities that resulted from being unable to protect His people from wicked are the heart of man.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Justice is not evil, the lack of it is, and that is what wicked men have today. God has justice tempered with kindness, patience, and mercy. The bible does not paint God as evil, and bible believers understand that God is good. His guiding hand, when it had to be withdrawn at times, because of outright genuine deep wickedness, resulted in terrible things. Allowing other wicked men to come in and do their thing with His people, or etc.

There is a long list of atrocities either performed by or ordered by God in the OT. Of course God is not really evil. These are mostly origin stories of a primative war like people blaming God for there atrocities or stories told by priests attempt to ensure obedience. Obey God or he'll turn you to salt. Obey God or he'll drown you with a flood.

In order to save men, He required a people.

If he so all powerful he could have created man who didn't need saving or not created the devil who caused men to fall or maybe not had those sons of God who mated with the daughters of men and made such evil that He had to drown everything with a flood not being competent to fix things without so much destruction.

We know how He healed multitudes of people, and fed them, and loved the children. That was the face of God, and the heart of God. Giving His son to die to save men is the heart of God.

The atrocities that resulted from being unable to protect His people from wicked are the heart of man.

Like I have said before you portray HIM not only as evil but as incompetent as well. You paint a very unflattering picture of God with your strict Biblical literalism.

 

[dad]

There is a long list of atrocities either performed by or ordered by God in the OT. Of course God is not really evil. These are mostly origin stories of a primative war like people blaming God for there atrocities or stories told by priests attempt to ensure obedience. Obey God or he'll turn you to salt. Obey God or he'll drown you with a flood.
If he so all powerful he could have created man who didn't need saving or not created the devil who caused men to fall or maybe not had those sons of God who mated with the daughters of men and made such evil that He had to drown everything with a flood not being competent to fix things without so much destruction.

Like I have said before you portray HIM not only as evil but as incompetent as well. You paint a very unflattering picture of God with your strict Biblical literalism.

I didn't paint the bible, or the flood, or the sinful state of man, and all the horrible results.

A lot of fixing is required.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I didn't paint the bible, or the flood, or the sinful state of man, and all the horrible results.

A lot of fixing is required.

And who do you claim created that botched up mess and then murdered nearly everyone and everything with a flood trying to fix it?

 

[biggles53]

I didn't paint the bible, or the flood, or the sinful state of man, and all the horrible results.

A lot of fixing is required.

Dad, do you consider it morally right to keep slaves? - because your god says it is. Do you consider it morally right to hunt down witches and kill them? - because your god says it is. Do you consider it morally right to wipe out your 'enemies' entirely, killing all their children, their women, right down to their livestock? - because your god says it is. Do you consider it morally right to kill unruly children? Adulters? Non-believers? Sabbath violators? - because your god says it is.Do you consider it morally right if we all "cared not for the morrow", and just lay back and trusted your god to provide for us? - because your god says it is. Do you consider it morally right for you to have your responsibilities and your transgressions taken over and absolved by another? - because your god says it is..........

Where are your morals dad.....?

 

[dad]

And who do you claim created that botched up mess and then murdered nearly everyone and everything with a flood trying to fix it?

It is a mistake looking at the sins of man and blaming it on God. You seem to think Him allowing real choice was botching it. Choices come with consequences. Consequences are part of learning. Learning can be a good thing.

 

[dad]

Dad, do you consider it morally right to keep slaves?

Actually, I think Wal Mart employees should be paid more. Maybe it's just me? I also think child labor is not a good thing when forced, especially. The draft? Well, find me a just war, and I might support that. Pimps drugging women? Nope, let em all go, I say...etc etc.

- because your god says it is.

Really? Glad He informed you. He forgot to tell me. Really.

Do you consider it morally right to hunt down witches and kill them? -

I consider it was was morally right in a certain time and place, of course. Just as stoning an adulteress was! Yet Jesus updated the times, if you notice. Moving on...

because your god says it is.

Lie. It was. Not is.

Do you consider it morally right to wipe out your 'enemies' entirely, killing all their children, their women, right down to their livestock?

See above. Jesus wiped out...whom???

- because your god says it is.

Lie.

...Do you consider it morally right if we all "cared not for the morrow", and just lay back and trusted your god to provide for us? -

Less stress, I would think. However, you seem to have no clue what the verse you vaguely reference means. In other words, don't freak out, and obsess over it. Need any more modern lingo lessons, just bellow.

Do you consider it morally right for you to have your responsibilities and your transgressions taken over and absolved by another? - because your god says it is..........

That doesn't include salvation, does it? It maybe includes God not lowering the boom on some that may deserve it pronto, perhaps....but so??

Where are your morals dad.....?

Dancing all over your misconceptions..where else??

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

It is a mistake looking at the sins of man and blaming it on God. You seem to think Him allowing real choice was botching it. Choices come with consequences. Consequences are part of learning. Learning can be a good thing.

Sorry but it was God who created sinful man and then said His creation was good when he finished even though it was not long before it repented him that he had made his botched creation so he flooded the world. And supposedly it was the sons of God mating with the daughters of men who created so much evil that God had to destroy his botched creation with that big flood that murdered nearly everything. According to the literalist it was God who ordered or directly caused numerous atrocities including genocide in the Old Testament. You can twist and squirm all you like. You are the ones that portray God as an evil monster of Biblical proportions. (and a bungler as well of course)

 

[BananaSlug]

I've got them busy right now looking for that verse that claims Ezekiel 9 is a vision.

So which verse is it? Ezekiel 8?

 

[sandwiches]

It is a mistake looking at the sins of man and blaming it on God. You seem to think Him allowing real choice was botching it. Choices come with consequences. Consequences are part of learning. Learning can be a good thing.

Would you consider a man to be a responsible father, if he leaves open bottles of poison in a child's room? What about if he locked the child in with a tiger? In Christian doctrine, God doesn't just allow us to choose, he inserts and allows perils, obstacles, and suffering in all his children's lives. A responsible father tries to teach without putting his kid in direct danger. What responsible father allows his children to kill, rape, torture others? Where's a little girl's choice when she's raped and murdered by a mad man? Where's a man's choice when his family is killed by a natural disaster? If your god were a real father and if all that occurs is because of him, he is responsible for every bit of suffering in man.

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you consider a man to be a responsible father, if he leaves open bottles of poison in a child's room?

If that child was 30 years old, married and at work -- yes.

 

[BananaSlug]

If that child was 30 years old, married and at work -- yes.

But if they had the moral development of a child (not knowing right from wrong), then no. Correct?

 

[AV1611VET]

But if they had the moral development of a child (not knowing right from wrong), then no. Correct?

I'll say "correct" to that; but I want you to know that I think that's a loaded question.

'Right from wrong' is more an ethical issue than a moral one.

What is right in one culture, can be wrong in another; and, just like science, ethics can be relative [no pun intended].

But when it comes to morality, that's different; as morality brings God into the picture.

Ethics is horizontal: man ↔ man.

Morals is vertical: God ↕ man.

In short -- there is 'right and wrong' -- then there is 'Right and Wrong'.

Adam and Eve knew better.

 

[BananaSlug]

I'll say "correct" to that; but I want you to know that I think that's a loaded question.

That was not a loaded question.

'Right from wrong' is more an ethical issue than a moral one.

What is right in one culture, can be wrong in another; and, just like science, ethics can be relative [no pun intended].

What about knowing the difference between good and evil?

But when it comes to morality, that's different; as morality brings God into the picture.

So God doesn't practice what he preaches? You would think a God that was so down on murder wouldn't kill babies.

Ethics is horizontal: man ↔ man.

Morals is vertical: God ↕ man.

I would say they are both man/man.

In short -- there is 'right and wrong' -- then there is 'Right and Wrong'.

Either way, they didn't know.

Adam and Eve knew better.

How could they have known better when they didn't know?

 

[AV1611VET]

I would say they are both man/man.

That is correct.

You would have to -- else you wouldn't be able to use them interchangeably.

This mindset conveniently allows atheists to be able to claim they are "moral", when in reality, they are "ethical".

 

[sandwiches]

I'll say "correct" to that; but I want you to know that I think that's a loaded question.

'Right from wrong' is more an ethical issue than a moral one.

What is right in one culture, can be wrong in another; and, just like science, ethics can be relative [no pun intended].

But when it comes to morality, that's different; as morality brings God into the picture.

Ethics is horizontal: man ↔ man.

Morals is vertical: God ↕ man.

In short -- there is 'right and wrong' -- then there is 'Right and Wrong'.

Adam and Eve knew better.

Well, I noticed you skipped over two important points in my last post: Children and natural disasters. Where's the choice in those? Are children to be held responsible for their actions to the same degree that a 30-year-old, married person at work?