Millennial Considerations

BABerean2 · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It doesn't become obsolete until after Jesus returns to Earth

Based on what you are saying the Old Covenant is still in effect and the New Covenant has not come to fruition yet.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Notice the tense of the verse above, which was written during the first century.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

We find the same thing in the verse that you made reference to.

This text is believed to have been written around 66 AD.
The Old did vanish away completely when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

When the context of the whole passage is taken into account, the New Covenant was instituted at Calvary, based on the verse below.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

If you still have any doubts read Hebrews 12:18-24.
We are not come to the mountain that burns with fire, but instead to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.

In Galatians chapter 4 Paul compared the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" and compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the covenant of "bondage".

The battle between the Judaisers who could not let go of the Sinai Covenant and those who embraced the New Covenant of Christ began in Acts chapter 15.
It is still going on today.

Tremendous confusion and division has been produced in the modern Church, because the Judaisers are still with us.

.

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

BABerean2 said:
Based on what you are saying the Old Covenant is still in effect and the New Covenant has not come to fruition yet.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
We find the same thing in the verse that you made reference to.

.

Ready is a key word - as in prepared , within reach , soon to be
when someone says 'Are you ready ? do you assume they are asking are you obsolete ? or finished ? Not at all , or maybe you think that

matt5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

Does the new Covenant say it is permitted to allow :
make a graven image and bow down to that image in worship the image
bear false witness against thy neighbor?

covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's
commit adultery.
Murder
and other matters

God is doing things that show growth so people can learn how and why
One of the reasons we go through various trials and tribulations as people learn from the mistakes they make

Davy · Dec 22, 2017

LastSeven said:
The reason you don't understand my reasoning is because you insist on a future millennium. That's messing you up. Try to look at it from the perspective that we are in the millennium now. It will all fit together nicely.

I'd say the same thing about you. The reason you don't understand what I'm saying is because I DO... believe God's Word as written about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect. And what is truly baffling is how those who developed the theory you're on could practically omit the whole Revelation 20 chapter and act like it never existed, and then also have followers after them that know they do such!

LastSeven · Dec 22, 2017

DavidPT said:
Not what other hardcore Amils who have been Amils for years told me on numerous occasions on another board I have been a member of. I simply assumed all Amils pretty much came to the same conclusions about these souls. These Amils claimed these souls continued their reign literally in heaven upon death. Thus why I see that as nonsense. But now that I finally understand that is not your view as well, the nonsense part no longer applies since I at least see logic in the way you are understanding this, not that I agree with you though. So you were correct then, I didn't understand your take on this, but instead assumed your take on this was the same as all other Amils I have encountered over the years. Thanks for making it clear to me now. Perhaps you already did prior to this, and if so, perhaps I didn't see that post if that is the case. Your position on this is a bit clearer to me now though. Thanks. Sorry for the nonsense part, it isn't applicable here after all since your position is logical.

Glad we could clear that up. I think the difference is that most amils also believe that people have spirits that go to heaven when the body dies. I don't believe that. I guess even in the amil community I'm a bit of an odd bird.

LastSeven · Dec 22, 2017

Davy said:
And what is truly baffling is how those who developed the theory you're on could practically omit the whole Revelation 20 chapter and act like it never existed, and then also have followers after them that know they do such!

I don't know why you would say that. When have I ever indicated that I omit or ignore Revelation 20?

LastSeven · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
That is a Fact !
Instead of just merely making assumptions- spend your time wisely by actually studying the Scriptures you would then understand the prophetic nature of the scripture , this one in particular requires more than a glance , you would see the true meaning if you actually put some time into studying- but you have shown repeatedly that you would rather watch videos of people propagating false teachings than actually read and ask God to show you what it means

The new state of Israel came about through lies, blackmail and deceit and you think God was behind it all? You need to take your blinders off where Israel is concerned, and start looking at the facts.

LastSeven · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Wrong AGAIN

I must say, your style of "debate" is very disrespectful and annoying. You might want to dial it down a bit.

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

LastSeven said:
Glad we could clear that up. I think the difference is that most amils also believe that people have spirits that go to heaven when the body dies. I don't believe that. I guess even in the amil community I'm a bit of an odd bird.

That is one of the reasons why you are so far off track with what God says in His Word and you have such different doctrinal beliefs , you say you read the bible , but either you don't believe it or don't understand it cause your beliefs do not match up to it

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

LastSeven said:
The new state of Israel came about through lies, blackmail and deceit and you think God was behind it all? You need to take your blinders off where Israel is concerned, and start looking at the facts.

Wrong , that is nonsense you believe from the bogus videos , God said He will bring Israel back and he did; you don't believe that God is behind the evil man called Man of Lawlessness and the false prophet ? You don't believe Gods word when you don't believe what it says , God stands at the door and knocks , he does not force himself in you must invite him in - God does not force you to believe what he says , but if you don't believe -you won't receive

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Wrong AGAIN
You overlook all the subtle differences that make a big difference in the story just a couple
The Prince is given land , the whole territory , that did not happen to the priests in the OT
The Prince is giving the burnt offering
Dan9:25 shows the Prince is Messiah !
too many details to present to someone who says he already knows

17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

You got Jesus preparing animal blood sacrifice, in "Reconcilliation For Sin"?

Is he getting paid by check or automatic deposit?

Come on, are you serious, tell me your kidding?

DavidPT · Dec 22, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
You got Jesus preparing animal blood sacrifice, in "Reconcilliation For Sin"?

Is he getting paid by check or automatic deposit?

Come on, are you serious, tell me your kidding?

Even though I too am Premil, no way do I think this prince in Ezekiel is meaning Christ. How anyone could possibly conclude that, that I will never understand. But I do think there is a very good chance David the prince in Ezekiel 37, Christ is meant here. But this is not the same prince meant in Ezekiel though.

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

Davy said:
I'd say the same thing about you. The reason you don't understand what I'm saying is because I DO... believe God's Word as written about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect. And what is truly baffling is how those who developed the theory you're on could practically omit the whole Revelation 20 chapter and act like it never existed, and then also have followers after them that know they do such!

Revelation 20:1-6 has no earthly kingdom with humans present.

Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% spiritual realm.

No earthly kingdom with humans there?

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

LastSeven said:
Glad we could clear that up. I think the difference is that most amils also believe that people have spirits that go to heaven when the body dies. I don't believe that. I guess even in the amil community I'm a bit of an odd bird.

How do you account for the rich man and Lazarus, if believers ddon't have souls that go to heaven/Abraham's Bossom Luke 16

Do you believe in a present torment, hell?

Do you believe in Abrahams Bossom?

Do you believe in a future eternal kingdom Revelation chapters 21 & 22?

Do you believe in a future eternal lake of fire Revelation 20:11-15?

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

DavidPT said:
Even though I too am P, no way do I think this prince in Ezekiel is meaning Christ. How anyone could possibly conclude that, that I will never understand. But I do think there is a very good chance David the prince in Ezekiel 37, Christ is meant here. But this is not the same prince meant in Ezekiel though.

As I stated and you have read several times, Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the Zerubbabel 2nd Temple 536BC, and the prince is the Temple High Priest, who prepared the sacrifices, and had literal children/sons.

Jesus Christ, The Alpha & Omega, The Creator, Preparing Animal Blood Sacrifice For Sin, In A Future Temple In Jerusalem?

Perhaps Jesus Will Be Looking For A Carpenters Job On Google Or Yahoo Also?

"Beware"! Matthew 24:23-27

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Wrong , that is nonsense you believe from the bogus videos , God said He will bring Israel back and he did; you don't believe that God is behind the evil man called Man of Lawlessness and the false prophet ? You don't believe Gods word when you don't believe what it says , God stands at the door and knocks , he does not force himself in you must invite him in - God does not force you to believe what he says , but if you don't believe -you won't receive

Satan is behind the future antichrist and false prophet, who are filled with devils in the kingdom of darkness. Revelation 16:12-14

Truth7t7 · Dec 22, 2017

DavidPT said:
Even though I too am Premil, no way do I think this prince in Ezekiel is meaning Christ. How anyone could possibly conclude that, that I will never understand. But I do think there is a very good chance David the prince in Ezekiel 37, Christ is meant here. But this is not the same prince meant in Ezekiel though.

Ezekiel 37:26 is clearly showing the eternal state, the sanctuary of God will be with his people "For Ever"!

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

DavidPT said:
Even though I too am Premil, no way do I think this prince in Ezekiel is meaning Christ. How anyone could possibly conclude that, that I will never understand. But I do think there is a very good chance David the prince in Ezekiel 37, Christ is meant here. But this is not the same prince meant in Ezekiel though.

That is what I thought so I did some research , now it's your turn
Look up all the references in history of a Prince in Israel , it is a story in prophetic terms describing how the OT days compare with Jesus crucifixion and as I said too many details - not going to hold your hand if you not willing to learn something you think you know.

http://thejewishhome.org/counter/EzekielPrince.pdf

Ezekiel 46

Ezekiel 46:1 Commentaries: 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "The gate of the inner court facing east shall be shut the six working days; but it shall be opened on the sabbath day and opened on the day of the new moon.

The Prince of Ezekiel 46
ezekiel 46 commentary - Google Search

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Ezekiel 37:26 is clearly showing the eternal state, the sanctuary of God will be with his people "For Ever"!

http://thejewishhome.org/counter/EzekielPrince.pdf

Ezekiel 46

seventysevens · Dec 22, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Satan is behind the future antichrist and false prophet, who are filled with devils in the kingdom of darkness. Revelation 16:12-14

But satan did not cause Israel to be reborn as a nation

BABerean2 · Dec 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Ready is a key word - as in prepared , within reach , soon to be
when someone says 'Are you ready ? do you assume they are asking are you obsolete ? or finished ? Not at all , or maybe you think that

matt5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

Does the new Covenant say it is permitted to allow :
make a graven image and bow down to that image in worship the image
bear false witness against thy neighbor?

covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's
commit adultery.
Murder
and other matters

God is doing things that show growth so people can learn how and why
One of the reasons we go through various trials and tribulations as people learn from the mistakes they make

Your argument comes apart not only in Galatians chapter 4, but also in chapter 3.

Paul says the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
This reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai covenant.

Nobody alive today has ever been guilty of breaking the 4th commandment.
Based on Colossians 2:16-17, nobody is to judge us in Sabbath keeping.
Christ is our Sabbath rest every day of the week.

There are two separate sets of commandments in the verse below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The contract to build a house becomes "obsolete" once that house is finished.
He built us a New House out of two pieces of wood, and a handful of nails.

The Greek word "diatheke" was translated as "covenant" and as "testament" in other places, by the KJV translators.
It is the same Greek word.
The group of books we commonly call the "New Testament" is a group of books about the New Covenant of Christ.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

NKJV
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