Millenial reign question...

[interpreter]

Actually, all 5 horsemen reign for a thousand years, as did Israel the first chosen people.
God's new chosen people are 5 Christian kingdoms that each reign for 1000 years.

 

[D.E.Smith]

Actually, all 5 horsemen reign for a thousand years, as did Israel the first chosen people.
God's new chosen people are 5 Christian kingdoms that each reign for 1000 years.

Five horsemen? Did you mean four?

D.E.

 

[NightHawkeye]

When you say that "satan must not exist during the millennium", you are correct. Satan is cast out of the Christian Promised land of rest. He is cast into the pit with a chain on his leg. Rev.20;1- The "pit" is the remainder of the world apart from the Christian's promised kingdom. But European Christian Israel is the Christian rest mentioned in Heb.4;4,9

Just as the first Covenant of the Law of Moses had it's reward of the promised land, so too the second covenant that was brought in by Jesus has theirs. The nations that followed Jesus were the European Christian Nations. Although many other people have followed Jesus and are today following his teachings they may not be living in the Christian promised land for the millennium. They may be somewhere in India or Africa or China. Today these areas of the world are called "the pit." There the serpent roams. The Serpent roams anywhere that the principle of "survival of the fittest" is allowed. But in European Christian Israel today, and for the next 1000 years the serpent is not allowed.

We are today here instigating justice and Compassionate mercy in our kingdom. The death penelty is abolished in European Christiandom. The twelve stars on the E.U. flag, although not yet the proper colors, are the crown on the head of the woman of Rev.12;1 We have begun the kingdom which Jesus tells us of in Matt.19;28 "Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the son of man will sit in the of his glory, ye also shall sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

The son of man is the son of man. Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and not therefore a son of man. Although he was a son of woman, he was the son of God. To say that Jesus Christ is the "son of man" would be blastphemous to the truth. But everything he did and said applied to mankind and also to himself. This is the cleverness of Biblical scripture! In this way he took on our sins, by being an example.

For example, just as he was killed in the end, we too, Christianity, is today considered all but dead. But it does this to follow Christ and rise again. Paul says we die in Christ, but expecting as he did to rise again. We rise again today brothers! in European Christian Israel the kingdom of God on earth. Then after this millennium the white throne of Rev.20;11 will be brought out.

Most excellent perspective, dana b! Your description of the "pit" seems especially appropriate. I notice that you didn't mention the U.S. though. How does the U.S. fit into your vision?

Also, given the secular and socialist nature of the current European Union, do you see a resurgence of Christianity happening there? And how do you see Christianity overcoming the growing 20% to 40% Muslim population which is rapidly expanding?


.

 

[interpreter]

Five horsemen? Did you mean four?

D.E.

No, there are 5 horsemen. (The 5th one arrives in chapter 19).

 

[D.E.Smith]

No, there are 5 horsemen. (The 5th one arrives in chapter 19).

I have a partial preterist and a partial futurist view of the book or Revelations and so my view of the horsemen differ.

I believe that Christ has already came in Judgment of unfaithful Jerusalem and is yet to come in judgment of the gentile nations that reject Christ in this present age.

Just as all who were in Jerusalem at the time of her judgment (including gentiles) suffered in her plaques when the trappings of the law was destroyed in the destruction of the second temple at the end of the age of the law and the jews, so shall all those who are not found in Christ when he returns at the end of the age of the gentiles suffer in the plaques of the final judgment at the end of the gentile age.

RO 2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

I believe the five horsemen you mentioned are acting in a similar fashion. They execute judgment upon those who reject God.

The four horsmen executes judgment on Jerusalem and the horseman in Revelations 19 executes judgment upon the beast.

D.E.

 

[dana b]

Most excellent perspective, dana b! Your description of the "pit" seems especially appropriate. I notice that you didn't mention the U.S. though. How does the U.S. fit into your vision?

Also, given the secular and socialist nature of the current European Union, do you see a resurgence of Christianity happening there? And how do you see Christianity overcoming the growing 20% to 40% Muslim population which is rapidly expanding?


.

Hello again Bible studiers. Your conversations are quite inspirational and enlightening. I'm so happy to find people so interested in Jesus and the Bible. May wisdom and understanding continue for us as we search the scripture!

We have today begun the 7th millennium as so many prophesies and calendar calculations have shown us. Today in European Christian Israel we are beginning to experience "the rest" which has been forcast for Christianity throughout the Bible. In Hebrews 4;4,9 Paul tells us that we have a rest coming during the 7th millennium. And in 2 Pet.3;8 we are told not to be ignorant that a day is 1000 years. Then 2 Pet.3;9 tells us not to worry because God is not "slack in his promise" about this.

So today, just as the first covenant Israelites recieved a period of peace, security and prosperity in a promised land, we too today as the Christian Nations have begun recieving ours. This is what this marvelous age of modernity that has come upon us is all about. For 6000 years Mankind has lived somewhat as the animals, struggling and suffering. Civilization from Mesopotamia, where Abraham was from, developed slowly, slowly. Even in our great grandparants days they still mostly lived precariously, economically, health wise and politially.

But then, poof! All of a sudden, in just the last half a century a marvelous Civilization in Christian Europe and America appeared. After a long 6000 years who would have expected that it would come upon us now, exactly before the year 2000 AD, which is the end of the 6th day. That is a miracle in itself. It would have been posible for modernity to have happed in the 1600 or 1700 AD. Or it could not have fully developed untill a couple of hundred years from now. But instead it followed God's pattern of 7 days just as is described in the Bible and on our Christian Calendar. I't great!
This is the fulfilment here on earth of the Lord's prayer where we say"thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven." Matt.6;10 It is just beginning now but when you watch the news, and understand, you see that it's happening fast!

As I said on a previous post, the 12 Tribes that are sealed in Rev.7 are the European Christian Nations. They are sealed in many or every way just as the Holy Bible's words are true in many or maybe every way. So just as in the first Chapter 7 in the Holy Bible Noah and his family are safe and "sealed" in the ark surrounded by water, so too are we today, in European Christian Israel safe, in the millennium kingdom, surrounded by water. The water that surrounds us is the Medditeranean Sea, the Atlantic Ocean and the Acrctic Sea. European Christian Israel is in this way sealed as describes in Rev.7.

But why isn't the tribe of Ephraim and the tribe of Dan sealed in this listing? This is because they are not actually geographically sealed as are the others. Ephraim today has been graphted on as America and the tribe of Dan is Russia. Americal has a common border with Mexico and Russia has borders with many Islamic countries. So they are not sealed in this way among others.

Although Gen.49;16 tells us that "Dan will judge his people as one of the Tribe of Israel." So Russia will still experience the millennium as mentioned by Jesus in Matt.19;28

About America(Ephraim) we can read in Hosea.

ps. Isa.14;1,2 describes the situation with the immigrants in the E.U.

sorry, no time to check for spelling my computers about to turn off in this library. dan b

 

[dana b]

After the Second Coming and judgement Jesus will reign on Earth for a thousand years and Satan will be bound for that time, then loosed for a short time.

My question is a simple one: Why? If he is to lead a final rebellion, aren't those reigning with Christ in danger of falling again? Scary thought...

Now that we are entering the judgment of Jesus on earth his description in Matt.19;28 is being fulfilled. The 12 thrones are on the flag and the Christian Cultured government is changing and re-arranging fast. After all, the Bible tells us this governnment of 12 thrones(kingdoms) will last a thousand years.

Why arn't we, who are living in European Chrstian Israel in "danger of falling again?" Because the Serpent has been cast out. Survival of the fittest, which is what Adam and Eve began following in Eden is not no more in the Christian Cultured Countries of Europe. Even Russia has stopped using the death penaly. By trying to follow Jesus's message of being fully compassionate the Christian Countrys over their 2000 years of history have achieved much. Today we are living in and also exporting the results of this prosperity and success. And because of our high social and political moral development it is becoming harder and harder to be any kind of criminal or even an anti social personality here in this fine society of ours. It is not the same in this world's other kingdoms.

In the personal perspective salvation is an individual thing. You must follow your conscience and thereby respect yourself. If you are doing this you are probably doing the works that Christ would want you to. But along with this Paul explains quite clearly to us that actual salvation of your soul is through grace by Jesus Christ. For if it was by works, how can it be called by grace, and if it is by grace, this means that you can not work for it. But Paul explains sin to us in Romans 7;14-25 where he says that sin will continually nag a person throughout his whole life. But he says in there also, that even as his physical body will be pulled by sinful ideas at the same time his spirt will be obeying and following God and Christ. So don't fall just because you are sometimes tripping.

 

[RibI]

After the Second Coming and judgement Jesus will reign on Earth for a thousand years and Satan will be bound for that time, then loosed for a short time.

My question is a simple one: Why? If he is to lead a final rebellion, aren't those reigning with Christ in danger of falling again? Scary thought...

It is a scary thought and I'm not sure of the answer, but God did give Satan rulership over the earth at some time in prehistory.

Note: Jesus did not say, when Satan offered Him rulership, that Satan did not have the athority to give it to Him.

So, since Satan's time will be cut short when Christ returns, God must be obligated to let Satan have the rest of his time. Which, by the way, will be for a short time. Presumably the time he was cut short.

We just need to have some faith that God knows what He's doing and that all will ultimately work out for the best.

Hope this helps.

 

[dana b]

It is a scary thought and I'm not sure of the answer, but God did give Satan rulership over the earth at some time in prehistory.

Note: Jesus did not say, when Satan offered Him rulership, that Satan did not have the athority to give it to Him.

So, since Satan's time will be cut short when Christ returns, God must be obligated to let Satan have the rest of his time. Which, by the way, will be for a short time. Presumably the time he was cut short.

We just need to have some faith that God knows what He's doing and that all will ultimately work out for the best.

Hope this helps.

Satan, the survival of the fittest serpent is chained or confined in the pit for the Christian 7th millennium. He is just brought out at the end of it in order to be defeated. Then begins the white throne judgment.

Satan had rulership in the world into which Adam and Eve followed him. Thorns and thistles are the vegetative product of a survival of the fittest attitude. Only when the tribes of Israel enclosed themselves in the promised land and when everyone else cast out was there a portion of the earth where Satan did not rule. But after Israel stopped using the Jubilee then the beast was born and Satan able to get back in.

Satan then had power over the whole world during the time when Jesus arrived as you say above. This means that the survival of the fittest selfishness attitude in mankind was allowed to predominate in it's endeavours. Jesus acknowledged this throughout his sermons.

Satan has been roaming about and manifesting evil throughout Christian history and up until just yesterday.(2000AD) Now, during the 7th millennium a period of Satanless living has been forcast in the Bible for the nations that followed Jesus. The nations and cultures and peoples who didn't become "Christian Nations" indicated by their using of the Holy Bible in their courts of law are today positioned without the "promised land of the second covenant." That is why in Revelations 21;24 it says "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it,..."

 

[RibI]

Satan, the survival of the fittest serpent is chained or confined in the pit for the Christian 7th millennium. He is just brought out at the end of it in order to be defeated. Then begins the white throne judgment.

Satan was defeated the moment Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

Just like an election you loose. You are not replaced untill your term is up.

True, after Satan is restrained forever the second resurrection occurs and the White Throne Judgment begins.

 

[dana b]

Satan was defeated the moment Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

Just like an election you loose. You are not replaced untill your term is up.

True, after Satan is restrained forever the second resurrection occurs and the White Throne Judgment begins.

True, "Satan was defeated the moment Jesus was resurrected from the dead." Death was swollowed up in victory. As 1 Cor.15;55 says "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

But these above words were all about the "kingdom of heaven within you" that Jesus spoke about. This kingdom was available to us humans as soon as Jesus arrived and said " The kingdom of heaven is at hand." But how about the world after Jesus and for the next 2000 years until today? Was not Satan roaming the world and causing so many terrible events such as poverty, wars, plagues like the black death? Who instigated the Christian wars against each other such as the 30 year war and the 100 years war. These were Catholics against Protestants. I think that Satan was in the world trying to tempt us and decieve us throughout this entire period.

The kingdom of heaven on earth as in the Lord's Prayer talks about an earthly kingdom that is promised to Jesus"s second covenant. It is correspondent to the first covenant Promised land in Canaan. The earthly kindom exists for it's time period in a sectioned off area of the earth. The rest of the kingdoms on earth continue just as they were. This is what happened during the first rest in ancient Canaan and it is now being duplicated today.

Only it is much more advanced as we Christians are forcast to have the "law written in our heats and minds" and not just follow an outwardly written law in stone. We thereby are able to add mercy and compassion to the law of justice brought by Moses. This was forcast in Jer.31;31 and Heb.8;10. And in order to have this Christian "rest" Satan is thown out of the Christian Nations in Rev.20;1 This happened in the year 2001AD just as the verse tells us.

We are in agreement about the White Throne coming after this.

 

[Justme]

After the Second Coming and judgement Jesus will reign on Earth for a thousand years and Satan will be bound for that time, then loosed for a short time.

My question is a simple one: Why? If he is to lead a final rebellion, aren't those reigning with Christ in danger of falling again? Scary thought...

The first problem here is that the 1000 year reign will not take place on earth. Perhaps if that is understood the rest would be a bit easier.

Please note that Daniel 12 : 1 and 2 mentions a resurrection of the dead which occurs at the time of the great distress....great tribulation. That particular resurrection, according to Daniel, consists of both righteous people and wicked people. Rev 20:4 and 6 makes it clear that the FIRST resurrection will be only righteous people and verse five tells us that first resurrection and the reign for 1000 years which follow it has to be over before there can be any more resurrections of the dead.
That means that to reign WITH Christ the resurrectees of that first resurrection, that has to be OVER before the next resurrection at the time of distress, they would have to be IN heaven....not on earth.

Justme

 

[zeke37]

The first problem here is that the 1000 year reign will not take place on earth. Perhaps if that is understood the rest would be a bit easier.

Hi...


Rev5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.



Rev20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Rev14:1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


Zec14:1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

I suggest that you read Ez44 aswell,

Please note that Daniel 12 : 1 and 2 mentions a resurrection of the dead which occurs at the time of the great distress....great tribulation. That particular resurrection, according to Daniel, consists of both righteous people and wicked people. Rev 20:4 and 6 makes it clear that the FIRST resurrection will be only righteous people and verse five tells us that first resurrection and the reign for 1000 years which follow it has to be over before there can be any more resurrections of the dead.

That means that to reign WITH Christ the resurrectees of that first resurrection, that has to be OVER before the next resurrection at the time of distress, they would have to be IN heaven....not on earth.

Justme

but why would they have to be in heaven?
and what do you mean by OVER?


in Daniel, both the wicked and righteous will rise,
but it does not say when!

perhaps, as it is in Rev, there is a 1000 years in between the righteous and unrighteous ressurections

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have a partial preterist and a partial futurist view of the book or Revelations and so my view of the horsemen differ.

That seem to be an oxymoron to me

 

[Justme]

Hi zeke37;

but why would they have to be in heaven?
and what do you mean by OVER?

The resurrectees of the FIRST resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6 have to be in heaven because before the great trib/parousia that is where Jesus is. They can't reign WITH Christ if they aren't where He is.

Rev 20:5
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The first resurrection and the ensuing 1000 year reign has to be OVER ....ended.... before any others can come to life. (be resurrected)

in Daniel, both the wicked and righteous will rise,
but it does not say when!

Yes, it does.

There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time.........

There is no other timeframe given so both are resurrected at the same time. This is reconciled by Matthew 25:31-46 as well.

perhaps, as it is in Rev, there is a 1000 years in between the righteous and unrighteous ressurections

The first resurrection is 1000 years before the next can come to life. Daniel and Matthew tell us that there is a resurrection at the time of distress/coming. There can be NO wicked in the first resurrection and Daniel can NOT be in that first because Daniel would not qualify. Daniell was NOT killed for his estimony of Christ and Daniel had zero connection with resisting the mark or the beast of the tribulation. That lays out the first and second resurrections of the dead and nowhere does the bible talk of THREE resurrections of the dead of mankind or 'other than Jesus.'

I'll gladly go thru the verses you quoted one at a time later, but first let's go thru the verses I put forth.

Justme

 

[LastSeven]

After the Second Coming and judgement Jesus will reign on Earth for a thousand years and Satan will be bound for that time, then loosed for a short time.

My question is a simple one: Why? If he is to lead a final rebellion, aren't those reigning with Christ in danger of falling again? Scary thought...

First off, I didn't read the whole thread. I just came across it and it's much too long to read through, so if I am repeating what's already been said, I apologize.

Now in response to the opening post: The Bible does not say that Jesus will reign on earth for a thousand years. It says the martyrs will reign with him for a thousand years. It doesn't say where.

This is my take on the millennium. I think of it as our Sabbath millennium. It is our seventh millennium, and also our last. A millennium of rest from Satan. That's all it is. It is not paradise. People will live on into the millennium, grow old and die. New people will be born.

As for who reigns during the millennium it is the resurrected martyrs (Rev 20:4). But notice that it does not say "Jesus reigns on earth", which is what most people assume.

I believe since Jesus must remain in heaven until the time to restore all things (Acts 3:21) he will not be on earth during this time, because all things will be restored after the millennium when the old heaven and earth pass away and the new heaven and earth are created. That is the time to restore all things.

I also believe that the correct way to read Rev 20:4 is this: The resurrected martyrs will reign with Jesus in their hearts. They will reign on earth as representatives of Christ, but Christ himself will stay in heaven.

The Sabbath millennium is only a period of rest, not a time of renewal.

The other possible explanation is that they reign with Christ in heaven, but that seems less likely because we will need some leadership here on earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi zeke37;
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time.........
There is no other timeframe given so both are resurrected at the same time. This is reconciled by Matthew 25:31-46 as well.

The first resurrection is 1000 years before the next can come to life. Daniel and Matthew tell us that there is a resurrection at the time of distress/coming. There can be NO wicked in the first resurrection and Daniel can NOT be in that first because Daniel would not qualify.

Justme

Interesting post bro!

Perhaps that is cuz they are still "standing" at the 2nd coming

http://www.christianforums.com/t7435912/
Face of One sitting upon the throne Reve 6/20

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One-sitting upon the Throne and from the wrath of the lambkin
17 that came the day, the great, of the wrath of *Him and who is able to stand.

 

[LastSeven]

Hi zeke37;



The resurrectees of the FIRST resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6 have to be in heaven because before the great trib/parousia that is where Jesus is. They can't reign WITH Christ if they aren't where He is.

Rev 20:5
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The first resurrection and the ensuing 1000 year reign has to be OVER ....ended.... before any others can come to life. (be resurrected)





Yes, it does.

There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time.........

There is no other timeframe given so both are resurrected at the same time. This is reconciled by Matthew 25:31-46 as well.



The first resurrection is 1000 years before the next can come to life. Daniel and Matthew tell us that there is a resurrection at the time of distress/coming. There can be NO wicked in the first resurrection and Daniel can NOT be in that first because Daniel would not qualify. Daniell was NOT killed for his estimony of Christ and Daniel had zero connection with resisting the mark or the beast of the tribulation. That lays out the first and second resurrections of the dead and nowhere does the bible talk of THREE resurrections of the dead of mankind or 'other than Jesus.'

I'll gladly go thru the verses you quoted one at a time later, but first let's go thru the verses I put forth.

Justme

Wow. I can't believe I finally found somebody who agrees with me on this. The second resurrection and the great distress go hand in hand, after the millennium.

When I first saw this it seemed so obvious to me, yet it is surprisingly difficult to convince others. I guess it's hard for some people to let go of the idea that we will all be resurrected and reign with Christ during the millennium.

 

[Justme]

Hi LastSeven;

Wow. I can't believe I finally found somebody who agrees with me on this. The second resurrection and the great distress go hand in hand, after the millennium.

Let's go thru it biblically and eliminate all doubt.

Daniel 12
........ There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The only timeframe given is the time of the distress that only happens once in all creation. AT THAT TIME multitudes awake. Some to life others to contempt or they are raised to be condemned as it says in other references. Both righteous and wicked are involved at this time.

The kicker here is that Daniel can not qualify to be raised in the first resurrection anyway because Daniel does not have any qualifications as is listed in Rev 20:4 and 6.

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The candidates for that first resurrection have been killed, John saw their souls in Heaven, and more specifically they were killed because of their testimony of Jesus. Daniel never heard the name Jesus, Daniel wasn't killed for that testimony because Daniel never said anything about what angels told him. Daniel 12:9. ( There is another verse which tells us that Daniel doesn't reveal things, but it has left me????) Daniel had no connection of any kind with the tribulation beast, the mark or anything close to it. The next thing is that Daniel 12:13 verifies that Daniel is resurrected at the end of the days.

13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

So Daniel, who would NOT be considered in the wicked is raised at the end of the days, the time of distress or the great tribulation. So there are righteous as well as wicked in that resurrection of the dead at the time of the great trib/parousia.

6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

That verse makes it clear that there are NO wicked in the FIRST resurection, it involves only the blessed and the holy.

The final thing to consider is that the FIRST resurrection is the beginning of the 1000 year reign with Christ. Verse 5 specifically says that 1000 years must end before that next resurrection of the dead can occur.

This eliminates a lot of doctrine which is out there today. First, any teaching about the 1000 year reign being on earth can't happen. Second, any teaching of a physical bodied resurrection is in doubt. Why would the first resurrection be to heaven and Daniel and the wicked get some other deal? What biblical passages would allow for that?

Another point to ponder concerning this is that the end of days, the harvest of the earth, the wrath of God is not the end of the world. It is not the end of death on earth for either the wicked or the righteous. We know this because John watches the wrath of God take place and the last instruction he was given before that wrath was:

13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."

There are people who believe in Jesus who die AFTER the wrath of God, the great trib, is over.

Please comment and add or take away whatever seems in error, thanks.

Justme

 

[LastSeven]

It seems pretty clear.

Now in terms of what we call "the great tribulation" I think there is some confusion. Clearly something happens prior to the thousand years, but it is not the great distress that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 24.

Let's see how Jesus describes the tribulation in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Daniel also talks about this great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world.

Daniel 12:1-2
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Sounds like Daniel is talking about the same time that Jesus is talking about, doesn't it? Daniel calls it a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. Jesus' description is very similar and he also said that it would never be equaled again. So this time of distress is truly the worst the world has ever seen or will ever see. As most would call it the "tribulation".

I think it's safe to say that both Daniel and Jesus are talking about the same "distress". So knowing that the resurrection happens after the thousand year and Daniel tells us that this is the same time of the great distress, obviously the great distress ("the tribulation") happens after the thousand years.

So whatever it is that plays out before the thousand years, however bad it may be, it is not the time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. It is not the tribulation.