Mike Pence Struggles To Defend Trump's Lie That Past Presidents Support His Border Wall

[tulc]

Mike Pence Struggles To Defend Trump's Lie That Past Presidents Support His Border Wall

“I know the president has said that that was his impression from previous administrations, previous presidents,” Pence said. “I know I’ve seen clips of previous presidents talking about the importance of border security, the importance of addressing the issue of illegal immigration.”

None of the living former presidents has explicitly stated any support for the wall itself, contrary to Trump’s brag on Friday.

The vice president’s attempted defense was similar to a statement from an administration official to The New York Times on Monday, in response to all of Trump’s living predecessors contradicting Trump’s false claim.

tulc(KAG by supporting the lies someone else tells?)

 

[Halbhh]

All four living former presidents deny Trump's claim they wanted to build border wall

“This is national security we’re talking about,” Trump said. “We’re not talking about games. We’re talking about national security. This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me. And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”

 

[Halbhh]

"One May 2016 comment from Obama stated: "Suggesting that we can build an endless wall along our borders, and blame our challenges on immigrants—that doesn't just run counter to our history as the world's melting pot; it contradicts the evidence that our growth and our innovation and our dynamism has always been spurred by our ability to attract strivers from every corner of the globe,” reported The Associated Press.

"Angel Ureña, spokesman for Bill Clinton, also said Clinton had never spoken to Trump about building a wall across the border. “In fact, they’ve not talked since the inauguration,” he said, reported Politico.

"George W. Bush’s spokesman, Freddy Bush, also told reporters that the former president had never discussed a border wall with Trump.

"Jimmy Carter issued a statement on Monday through his nonprofit organization denying Trump's assertion. "I have not discussed the border wall with President Trump, and do not support him on the issue,” the Carter Center wrote on Twitter."

All four living former presidents deny Trump's claim they wanted to build border wall

 

[Halbhh]

Do you think Trump realizes anymore when he is saying a falsehood?

 

[Gigimo]

Lets see over 300 miles of border structure was built during the Clinton administration and a bill funding more being built was passed under Bush 43, funny way of showing non-support wouldn't you think??

 

[FenderTL5]

Do you think Trump realizes anymore when he is saying a falsehood?

This is my concern with Trump; that he is so amoral that it never even registers that he's lying and further, he doesn't care.

 

[miamited]

Do you think Trump realizes anymore when he is saying a falsehood?

Hi halbhh,

I still recount a story told by his personal butler when he first began telling untruths during his campaigning. I believe it gives us the perfect insight into what President Trump thinks of lying.

The story goes that Mr. Trump had some guests visiting Mar a Lago and it was his practice to show the place off a bit by giving a tour of the place and talking up all the 'great' things about it. Which is still pretty much the way he likes to brag about his own accomplishments. Anyway, on one such tour the butler was with him and he told the guests that some tile in one of the bedrooms had been signed or designed by the great Walt Disney himself. Later, it seems, the butler mentioned to Mr. Trump that he didn't think that was true about the tile and his account is that Mr. Trump responded to him by simply saying, "Who cares?"

President Trump will say what he thinks you want to hear or whatever seems to him will win his case and he really doesn't care if any of the factual tidbits of what he says are true or not. They are conceived and spoken for the purpose of swaying the listeners mind. Whether they are true or not...who cares?

Here from the British paper The Telegraph is a small blurb about the issue:
He likes to lie about the history of his house
Mr Trump likes to tell people that the tiles in the children’s room, which are covered in nursery rhymes, were painted by Walt Disney.

When Mr Senecal, who now serves as the house historian, points out it isn’t true, Mr Trump will reply: “Who cares?”

Here is a bit more complete account from the NY Times:
In the early years, Mr. Trump’s daughter Ivanka slept in the same children’s suite that Dina Merrill, an actress and a daughter of Mrs. Post, occupied in the 1930s. Mr. Trump liked to tell guests that the nursery rhyme-themed tiles in the room were made by a young Walt Disney.

“You don’t like that, do you?” Mr. Trump would say when he caught Mr. Senecal rolling his eyes. The house historian would protest that it was not true.

“Who cares?” Mr. Trump would respond with a laugh.

So, let's all understand fully that when it comes to whether or not words spoken by President Trump are true or not, his understanding is that no one cares. What is important is that whatever he says has to inflate his ego or support his position on some issue.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[Halbhh]

Lets see over 300 miles of border structure was built during the Clinton administration and a bill funding more being built was passed under Bush 43, funny way of showing non-support wouldn't you think??

Trump said:

“This is national security we’re talking about,” Trump said. “We’re not talking about games. We’re talking about national security. This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me. And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”

See?

Compare:

"Angel Ureña, spokesman for Bill Clinton, also said Clinton hadnever spoken to Trump about building a wall across the border. “In fact, they’ve not talked since the inauguration,” he said, reported Politico.

"George W. Bush’s spokesman, Freddy Bush, also told reporters that the former president had never discussed a border wall with Trump.

"Jimmy Carter issued a statement on Monday through his nonprofit organization denying Trump's assertion. "I have not discussed the border wall with President Trump, and do not support him on the issue,” the Carter Center wrote on Twitter."

All four living former presidents deny Trump's claim they wanted to build border wall


See the problem?

It's a clear lie in this case. Either:
a) he knew it was false (making it a lie), or
b) he asserted it was definitely true when he was only sorta guessing or fudging, thus lying about the certainty. To assert something is definitely true when a person knows it's only a guess is a lie.

These repeated lies are why so many cannot trust him that might otherwise.

 

[JackRT]

For the past two years Pence has been mostly a good little vice president and has never spoken up but two years of association with Trump have taken their toll and the VP now thinks that he can lie like his boss.

 

[Gigimo]

Trump said:

“This is national security we’re talking about,” Trump said. “We’re not talking about games. We’re talking about national security. This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me. And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”

See?

Compare:

"Angel Ureña, spokesman for Bill Clinton, also said Clinton hadnever spoken to Trump about building a wall across the border. “In fact, they’ve not talked since the inauguration,” he said, reported Politico.

"George W. Bush’s spokesman, Freddy Bush, also told reporters that the former president had never discussed a border wall with Trump.

"Jimmy Carter issued a statement on Monday through his nonprofit organization denying Trump's assertion. "I have not discussed the border wall with President Trump, and do not support him on the issue,” the Carter Center wrote on Twitter."

All four living former presidents deny Trump's claim they wanted to build border wall


See the problem?

It's a clear lie in this case. Either:
a) he knew it was false (making it a lie), or
b) he asserted it was definitely true when he was only sorta guessing or fudging, thus lying about the certainty. To assert something is definitely true when a person knows it's only a guess is a lie.

These repeated lies are why so many cannot trust him that might otherwise.

Discussing it with him is one thing being on record as having the same opinion as him is what matters. Which brings us to the question when were they lying about supporting/building a border structure, then or now??

 

[Halbhh]

Discussing it with him is one thing being on record as having the same opinion as him is what matters. Which brings us to the question when were they lying about supporting/building a border structure, then or now??

you mean other presidents lying about talking with Trump about a wall?

What makes you think Bush or Carter would lie?

They are especially honest presidents.

 

[grasping the after wind]

you mean other presidents lying about talking with Trump about a wall?

What makes you think Bush or Carter would lie?

They are especially honest presidents.

That was not what the poster said at all. The poster said that past presidents supported a wall not that they were lying about talking to Trump. tulc's headline perhaps implies and many might infer that past presidents did not support any kind of border wall but the record shows that they did. I see people conflating Trump's untrue contention that he spoke with past presidents about his wall with the factual contention that past presidents supported walls on the border. tulc's headline by referencing a Trump specific wall seems to want to exclude any and all past wall building that has taken place with the support of many now opposing "Trump's wall." and perhaps also excludes any future non Trump wall that a future non Trump President might wish to build . One is then left to wonder which of the two, Trump or a wall, are people actually most motivated to oppose.

 

[Halbhh]

That was not what the poster said at all.

If so, then why write: "Which brings us to the question when were they lying about supporting/building a border structure, then or now??"

?

 

[Halbhh]

That was not what the poster said at all. The poster said that past presidents supported a wall not that they were lying about talking to Trump. tulc's headline perhaps implies and many might infer that past presidents did not support any kind of border wall but the record shows that they did. I see people conflating Trump's untrue contention that he spoke with past presidents about his wall with the factual contention that past presidents supported walls on the border. tulc's headline by referencing a Trump specific wall seems to want to exclude any and all past wall building that has taken place with the support of many now opposing "Trump's wall." and perhaps also excludes any future non Trump wall that a future non Trump President might wish to build . One is then left to wonder which of the two, Trump or a wall, are people actually most motivated to oppose.

About those Presidents possibly wishing they had built a wall:

"The surviving former presidents have all denied that they ever talked to Trump about a border wall, or expressed any regret for not building one."

From that same article quoted above in post 8.

But if you can find where Bush or Carter said before they wished they had done more to fence the border, I'd be interested to read that.

I only have known Carter, whom I voted against, to have been honest, and also shown many charitable actions additionally.

 

[The Barbarian]

What makes you think Bush or Carter would lie?

Is there anyone in America, who hasn't been living in a cave, who would take Donald Trump's word over that of Bush and Carter?

Trump lied about this, because he always lies. He's counting on his followers to believe him regardless of the stories he tells them.

Getting to be fewer and fewer of them, lately.

Trump routinely says things that aren’t true and few Americans believe him, poll finds

Survey included 18 pairs of opposing statements – one true, one false – without identifying who made the statement.
WASHINGTON – For months, President Donald Trump has claimed that U.S. Steel has announced plans to build more than six new plants. Throughout the midterm election, he repeatedly said that Democrats had signed onto an “open borders” bill. And he has long charged that millions of fraudulent votes were cast in the 2016 election.

None of these claims are true. What’s more, most Americans don’t believe them, according to a new Washington Post poll.

Fewer than 3 in 10 Americans – including fewer than 4 in 10 Republicans – believe these or several other prominent claims by the president, according to the poll.

The poll sought to determine what Americans believe – the truth or the president. The Washington Post has never conducted this type of poll before and it serves as the most comprehensive examination of whether Trump’s false and misleading claims have taken root among the broader American public.

The survey included 18 pairs of opposing statements – one true, one false – without identifying who made the statement. Eleven questions gauging belief in false claims by Trump were mixed among four false claims by Democrats, a true claim by Trump and two probing other factual statements.

Only among a pool of strong Trump approvers – about 1 in 6 adults in the survey – did majorities accept several, though not all, of his falsehoods as true.
Trump routinely says things that aren’t true and few Americans believe him, poll finds

 

[tulc]

That was not what the poster said at all. The poster said that past presidents supported a wall not that they were lying about talking to Trump. tulc's headline perhaps implies and many might infer that past presidents did not support any kind of border wall

Two points:
1) the headline is the articles headline, not something I made up.
and
2) the headline and the article seemed pretty clear to me that what was being discussed was President Trumps lie about discussing his wall with several of the other Presidents. all of which have denied doing so.

but the record shows that they did.

which isn't what the article is about.

(snip)

the above portion was also something the article wasn't about.
tulc(hopes that clears up any confusion)

 

[grasping the after wind]

About those Presidents possibly wishing they had built a wall:

"The surviving former presidents have all denied that they ever talked to Trump about a border wall, or expressed any regret for not building one."

From that same article quoted above in post 8.

But if you can find where Bush or Carter said before they wished they had done more to fence the border, I'd be interested to read that.

I only have known Carter, whom I voted against, to have been honest, and also shown many charitable actions additionally.

Again you are insisting upon conflating Trump talking to EX Presidents about a wall with EX Presidents actually supporting the building of a wall.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Two points:
1) the headline is the articles headline, not something I made up.
and
2) the headline and the article seemed pretty clear to me that what was being discussed was President Trumps lie about discussing his wall with several of the other Presidents. all of which have denied doing so.


which isn't what the article is about.


the above portion was also something the article wasn't about.
tulc(hopes that clears up any confusion)

I am unconfused by tulc's posting of an article that chastises Trump for claiming that past Presidents supported Trump's wall but it seems others are confused enough to believe that past presidents opposed building any walls not just walls that would be credited to Trump. Does tulc not care that the headline seems to imply the latter and not the former?

 

[tulc]

(snip) Does tulc not care that the headline seems to imply the latter and not the former?

uhmmm...you do understand: just because you want to infer that? That's really no one else's problem. You can infer anything you like, that doesn't mean it's being implied.
here's the title:

Mike Pence Struggles To Defend Trump's Lie That Past Presidents Support His Border Wall

when you read the above and read the story that goes with it what in the headline isn't in the article? Mike Pence is in it and he spent Sunday trying to find a way to defend the lie President Trump told. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
tulc(hopes that helps)

 

[FenderTL5]

Discussing it with him is one thing being on record as having the same opinion as him is what matters. Which brings us to the question when were they lying about supporting/building a border structure, then or now??

trump said, "...Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”
That's the lie.
All four living past presidents deny this.