Migratory birds in North America are shrinking as their wings get bigger. Climate change is to blame

[Shemjaza]

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So lets see climate change causes evolution and climate change is caused by man and his industrial pollution from coal, gas/diesel cars/trucks/etc..

So man a million to billions of years ago was causing evolution from their pollution . I wonder what they were polluting the earth with back a million+ years ago.

Human action variates climate change... but it isn't the only source of climate change.

Just like the existence of arson doesn't disprove forrest fires

 

[d taylor]

Well listening to the climate change promoters, man made is all i hear.

 

[Shemjaza]

Well listening to the climate change promoters, man made is all i hear.

That isn't true.

 

[Frank Robert]

I am guessing the topic of discussion along with climate change.

There is an alternate to guessing. You can stop regurgitating the misinformation from AIG, RTB and DI and learn what science is from legitimate sources. There are many free sources like Terrific Websites for Science

From biology to chemistry to physics, these science-oriented websites will help your students learn more about the world around them.
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Well listening to the climate change promoters, man made is all i hear.

Why are you rejection all the evidence of a warming climate and all the dramatic increase in worldwide climate disasters just this year and the past few years? If you refuse to remove the blinders you are wearing you will never know the truth.

 

[Tolworth John]

1). If change according to genetic variation is not evolution, what is it?
2). If evolution is not change according to genetic variation, how would you define evolution?

As defined by Darwin it involves the offspring having chareteristics that the parents don't have.

 

[Tolworth John]

You are simply attempting to define evolution as NOT evolution along the lines that make denial less obvious.

Evolution is the process by which populations of organisms change over generations. Genetic variations underlie these changes.

Better luck next time.

It has nothing to do with luck, but everything to do with science.
Variarition within a genetic range is not mirco to man evolution.
Darwins finches regularly show changes in bill size, but this change is not evolution.

 

[Shemjaza]

As defined by Darwin it involves the offspring having chareteristics that the parents don't have.

New variations are created by mutations. This is trivially demonstrated.

It has nothing to do with luck, but everything to do with science.
Variarition within a genetic range is not mirco to man evolution.
Darwins finches regularly show changes in bill size, but this change is not evolution.

Those finches having slightly different break size is exactly an example of "offspring having chareteristics that the parents don't have".

This is text book evolution.

Random mutations create tiny variations in tbe population then natural selection increases or decreases the frequency of those variations over generations.

Only Creationists ever propose that evolution means gross physical change in one generation. It's about multiple small changes slowly building up over thousands of generations.

 

[Frank Robert]

It has nothing to do with luck, but everything to do with science.
Variarition within a genetic range is not mirco to man evolution.
Darwins finches regularly show changes in bill size, but this change is not evolution.

Again, you are doing your best to redefine evolution. Creationists are unable to provide any evidence that the process of micro from macro evolution is not continuous. Belief is not evidence.

 

[Tolworth John]

New variations are created by mutations. This is trivially demonstrated.

Now you are talking about evolution, which has nothing to do with genetic variation, your problem is that demonsttatable mutations are not about new genetic information, but about loss of genetic information, meaning it is devolution.

This is text book evolution.

Make up your mind. You started this reply with a scientific statement, now you are showing ignorance about science and stating blind unreasonable faith in non scientific myths.

 

[Tolworth John]

Again, you are doing your best to redefine evolution. Creationists are unable to provide any evidence that the process of micro from macro evolution is not continuous. Belief is not evidence.

Yes you are right belief is not evidence.

What is the subject of this thread is belief not scientific evidence.

 

[Shemjaza]

Now you are talking about evolution, which has nothing to do with genetic variation, your problem is that demonsttatable mutations are not about new genetic information, but about loss of genetic information, meaning it is devolution.



Make up your mind. You started this reply with a scientific statement, now you are showing ignorance about science and stating blind unreasonable faith in non scientific myths.

It's the same thing.

Mutation creates variety and selection winnowes it.

The problem is that the Creationist concept of "genetic information" doesn't work because there is no objective way to measure it and no units to measure it in.

If you can't measure something, then you can't demonstrate that it increases our decreases.


Now using normal information theory, mutation is absolutely a source of new information.


If you disagree, tell me what is the metric and what is the objective method of measuring "genetic information".

 

[Frank Robert]

Yes you are right belief is not evidence.

What is the subject of this thread is belief not scientific evidence.

The subject of the OP is wings of migratory birds and climate change. There is less evidence for the wings getting shorter as there it is limited to just a few recent studies. On the other hand there is overwhelming evidence of climate change based on thousands of studies. For example google scholar reports in over 4,740,000 results for climate studies.

Try again!

 

[AV1611VET]

Migratory birds in North America are shrinking as their wings get bigger.

As a wave approaches land, its speed decreases, while its wave increases in height.

Climate change is to blame.

We live in exciting times, and the LORD is coming soon!

 

[Shemjaza]

As a wave approaches land, its speed decreases, while its wave increases in height.We live in exciting times, and the LORD is coming soon!

It's impossible to rule out miracles for effects studied...

But I'd imagine that there's nothing non biblical about:
"Man in his ignorance and greed have damaged the environment and the animals who live in it."

 

[AV1611VET]

It's impossible to rule out miracles for effects studied...

But I'd imagine that there's nothing non biblical about:
"Man in his ignorance and greed have damaged the environment and the animals who live in it."

 

[Tolworth John]

It's the same thing.

Mutation creates variety and selection winnowes it.

The problem is that the Creationist concept of "genetic information" doesn't work because there is no objective way to measure it and no units to measure it in.

If you can't measure something, then you can't demonstrate that it increases our decreases.


Now using normal information theory, mutation is absolutely a source of new information.


If you disagree, tell me what is the metric and what is the objective method of measuring "genetic information".

It works both ways.
evolutionists cannot measure or demonstrate how mutations benefit an organism withnew functions.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It works both ways.
evolutionists cannot measure or demonstrate how mutations benefit an organism withnew functions.

Quick question: how WOULD such a thing be measured? What unit would be used?

 

[Shemjaza]

It works both ways.
evolutionists cannot measure or demonstrate how mutations benefit an organism withnew functions.

Completely untrue.

Mutations have measurable effects on the development of traits of the organism.

Varied traits can be measured to have a positive or negative advantage in survival.

 

[Shemjaza]

Quick question: how WOULD such a thing be measured? What unit would be used?

Population frequency over generations is a good one.

On shorter scale studies number of offspring reaching adulthood is evidence.

Survival percentage when some pressure occurs.


I'm not saying you can wave a magic machine and declare something more adapted to the environment... but it is absolutely something that can be studied.

 

[Frank Robert]

It works both ways.
evolutionists cannot measure or demonstrate how mutations benefit an organism withnew functions.

You are again regurgitating the wilful spread of misinformation for DI, AIG, RTB and other creationist organizations. I don't understand how people can give any credibility organizations whose only raison d'être is to convince gullible people like you that evolution is inspired by Satan. I appears that the donations creationist orgs rake in without doing any science to back up their apolgetics is their incentive to keep pushing out misinformation.

Evolution myths: Mutations can only destroy information

Biologists are uncovering thousands of examples of how mutations lead to new traits and even new species. This claim not only flies in the face of the evidence, it is also a logical impossibility
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You have yet to back up one of your assertions about evolution when challenged just as AIG, RTB, DI, etc have yet to back any of their supposedly scientific claims.