Michigan town votes to recall entire government over Chinese factory plans

[Ana the Ist]

The only fact I see is a previous post admitting you were ignorant of the history my post was referencing.

Oh I was fully aware of the strength of the Japanese economy by 1990. Prior to the tech boom they had 6-7 of the 10 most profitable businesses in the world.

We aren't talking about economics though. The problem posed by Chinese companies isn't strictly, or even primarily economic.

Remind me what it's called again when a few words are quoted using a hyper-literal reading to try and mislead others about the larger point the full context made.

I have no idea. It seems pretty racist to me that you would equate Japan with China simply because they're both Asian. You realize these are completely different nations that pose completely different problems from a foreign and domestic policy standpoint, right?

Any relationship between the two is entirely in your imagination and 100% irrelevant.

As I thought, nothing even close to the previously posted misquote of what I wrote.

I directly quoted you....there's no misquoting done here.

Your posts can't even explain what it is going to be used for

An example. I made a point on the thread about "What's Pulling America Apart?" and I thought your post would make an excellent example of that point.

You can say no if you don't want me to quote you. That's why I asked for your permission.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The concerns about what the parent company may do with the money are valid as are the concerns about the parent company association with the CCP (it sounds like we're in agreement on that part).

The part I was saying that's "non-applicable" in this case is the threat of intimidation by the Chinese "secret police".

Given that the guy who's running the subsidiary a regular old born & bred American dude with no family over there, it's doubtful that they would have any "shake down" power over him...he would just quit and go be a Regional Operations President at some other company (just like when he quit the last one to go work for Gotion)

If the person running the subsidiary was a Chinese American (with family members back in the old country), then the concerns about the Chinese secret police intimidation would be relevant...

Do you think the CIA and other intelligence agencies' concerns over TikTok are valid?

Because I've seen the regional and international directors of TikTok who've testified before Congress and they aren't Chinese either.

 

[KCfromNC]

Oh I was fully aware of the strength of the Japanese economy by 1990.

Then it is weird your initial response failed to make the connection to the obvious meaning of mine.

Or at least had to pretend you didn't to jump to wild diversions like this :

It seems pretty racist to me that you would equate Japan with China simply because they're both Asian.

I'm still enjoying the image of imagining someone reading my post and seriously having this be the first thing that comes to mind. But that's the point, it's something that would have to be imagined because given we've established my post never said this, it's pure fantasy. I'm impressed at the persistence in attempting to sell this fiction, but it's clear that it is just another attempt to avoid addressing the content of my post by hoping to divert away from what it actually said.

I'm impressed my post has required such tactics, but I guess that's what an obvious comparison to history will do to empty right wing rhetoric.

You can say no if you don't want me to quote you.

I'm well aware of what the word no means. If only other posts were better at understanding the actual meanings of words.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Then it is weird your initial response failed to make the connection to the obvious meaning of mine.

There is no connection.

I'm still enjoying the image of imagining someone reading my post and seriously having this be the first thing that comes to mind.

Gross.

I'm well aware of what the word no means. If only other posts were better at understanding the actual meanings of words.

If you had a valid point....feel free to make it.

Japan isn't China, and these situations aren't remotely similar, even if you imagine they are because they're both Asian.

 

[KCfromNC]

Japan isn't China, and these situations aren't remotely similar, even if you imagine they are because they're both Asian.

I'm still laughing at the fantasy that anyone would read my post and the first thing that would come to mind is "yeah, that's saying all Asians are exactly the same". Appreciate the fan fiction, it makes my time here even more entertaining.

 

[Fantine]

Biden is meeting with Chinese president Xi in San Francisco today.

As Thomas Friedman said in "The World is Flat," there has never been a war against a country with a McDonald's. In other words, when countries are strongly interconnected through the global economy, the repercussions of war and armed conflicts would hurt them so much that it would be disastrous.

Russia, whose economy is almost 100% fueled by oil, has invaded Ukraine (with eyes on the rest of the former USSR) because it needs to diversify its economy to regain its power, and Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe. As the world turns to alternative energy sources, oil will become less valuable, and Russia will weaken.

It is in China and Japan's interests for America to be prosperous and strong economically because they are heavily invested in us.

While China is not an ally, I am happy that a failing company in a small town nearby found an investor that allows the little town and its residents to be gainfully employed, prosper, and improve the economy of the state.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Biden is meeting with Chinese president Xi in San Francisco today.

Hope they brought their shoe covers...I hate to see either of them slip on human poo and fall on a used needle.

As Thomas Friedman said in "The World is Flat," there has never been a war against a country with a McDonald's. In other words, when countries are strongly interconnected through the global economy, the repercussions of war and armed conflicts would hurt them so much that it would be disastrous.

That gets less and less true as time goes on and more countries get more modern economic outlets.

As the number of trade partner options increase, the dependency on a select few goes down.

One example, there was a time when no other first world country would've refused to import certain food products from the US. Now, there are several who have the luxury of walking away from it for reasons as trivial as "we don't like that your corn is GMO corn". If you can find a dozen small & medium trade partners, that can (for certain sectors) supplant the trade you were doing with one large one.

While China is not an ally, I am happy that a failing company in a small town nearby found an investor that allows the little town and its residents to be gainfully employed, prosper, and improve the economy of the state.

I'll reiterate my previous example that, to my knowledge, nobody has wanted to touch with a 10 foot pole yet in this thread... (or they have and I've missed it)

If you were in a progressive town, and the town was struggling, or had a vital company that was struggling and 3,000 jobs were on the line. If Ben Shapiro/DailyWire was offering to invest & bail it out (but that meant it'd become a subsidiary of his company, and both profits and resources would be used for his preferred endeavors...liking helping Matt Walsh make more movies against trans people), would you want your town taking that deal?

Guessing the answer is "No", correct? A progressive town would be understandably be against helping to fund Ben Shapiro's parent company much like AOC had problems with Jeff Bezos/Amazon and spearheaded the effort to keep Amazon out of Queens.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm still laughing at the fantasy that anyone would read my post and the first thing that would come to mind is "yeah, that's saying all Asians are exactly the same".

You're the one making the comparison.

Appreciate the fan fiction, it makes my time here even more entertaining.

That's not fiction, you made the comparison. I quoted it for you, at your own request.

 

[Fantine]

If I lived in a town with shuttered buildings and unemployed citizens I would be happy with any legitimate business investing in our town to turn things around. Progressives want people to have good jobs and thriving main streets.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Hope they brought their shoe covers...I hate to see either of them slip on human poo and fall on a used needle.

Just out of curiosity....have you seen the US crime stats lately?

That gets less and less true as time goes on and more countries get more modern economic outlets.

As the number of trade partner options increase, the dependency on a select few goes down.

One example, there was a time when no other first world country would've refused to import certain food products from the US. Now, there are several who have the luxury of walking away from it for reasons as trivial as "we don't like that your corn is GMO corn".

Supposedly, Russia has banned GMO foods. I don't know if there's any truth to it though.

I find the farmers' protest in Denmark more concerning.

If you can find a dozen small & medium trade partners, that can (for certain sectors) supplant the trade you were doing with one large one.

And as the pandemic showed, there's a significant advantage to diversifying trade markets and supply chains.

I'll reiterate my previous example that, to my knowledge, nobody has wanted to touch with a 10 foot pole yet in this thread... (or they have and I've missed it)

If you were in a progressive town, and the town was struggling, or had a vital company that was struggling and 3,000 jobs were on the line. If Ben Shapiro/DailyWire was offering to invest & bail it out (but that meant it'd become a subsidiary of his company, and both profits and resources would be used for his preferred endeavors...liking helping Matt Walsh make more movies against trans people), would you want your town taking that deal?

Guessing the answer is "No", correct? A progressive town would be understandably be against helping to fund Ben Shapiro's parent company much like AOC had problems with Jeff Bezos/Amazon and spearheaded the effort to keep Amazon out of Queens.

I understand the point you're making here....but it seems like this should be a bipartisan issue (or perhaps nonpartisan would be more accurate).

The amount of corporate espionage, government espionage, and attempted influence on US citizens' rights by Chinese international business and economic strategy is staggering. I mean...our president has taken money from them and no one seems to understand what for. They flew a spy balloon into our nation and again, for reasons unexplained, it took a rather long time to shoot down.


I'm not saying these things themselves are necessarily in of themselves the biggest concern....but they do imply a rather troubling trend.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If I lived in a town with shuttered buildings and unemployed citizens I would be happy with any legitimate business investing in our town to turn things around.

What's a "legitimate business" in your mind?

We're talking about the nation currently plundering Africa to a degree that makes European colonists hundreds of years ago look like amateurs.

 

[Fantine]

The legitimate business that was purchased and reopened and involved in the same enterprise with the same personnel as before.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Biden is meeting with Chinese president Xi in San Francisco today.

As Thomas Friedman said in "The World is Flat," there has never been a war against a country with a McDonald's.

You a fan of Friedman?

Because I actually read The World Is Flat in college and while he's never claimed to be a prophet....I think he failed to see some rather significant issues with globalization.

In other words, when countries are strongly interconnected through the global economy, the repercussions of war and armed conflicts would hurt them so much that it would be disastrous.

You're aware that China had teamed up with Russia, Iran, Brazil, and multiple other nations to create an alternative economic standard apart from the US dollar, right?

Russia, whose economy is almost 100% fueled by oil, has invaded Ukraine (with eyes on the rest of the former USSR) because it needs to diversify its economy to regain its power, and Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe.

I'd agree that's part of it.

Ironically, there's McDonald's in both Russia and the Ukraine.

As the world turns to alternative energy sources, oil will become less valuable, and Russia will weaken.

They haven't invented the solar powered rocket yet.

It is in China and Japan's interests for America to be prosperous and strong economically because they are heavily invested in us.

I'm not sure why you're tying Japan to China like some other posters...

But China is literally taking steps to destroy us economically.

While China is not an ally, I am happy that a failing company in a small town nearby found an investor that allows the little town and its residents to be gainfully employed, prosper, and improve the economy of the state.

I think everyone can understand why you'd be happy with your personal anecdote but there's a bigger picture to consider here.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The legitimate business that was purchased and reopened and involved in the same enterprise with the same personnel as before.

They kept the same personnel?

I was under the impression that they either kept the same management....or provided a bunch of new jobs.

What exactly happened after the Chinese company bought out the local business?

 

[Ana the Ist]

If China out-capitalisms the US, we’ll become “England”, a once powerful but ultimately obsolete superpower, because capitalism is a zero-sum game, apparently.

How long will the dollar last as the world's default currency? The BRICS nations are gathering in South Africa this August with it on the agenda

This August, South Africa will host a summit of BRICS nations, which have been seeking to reduce their reliance on the dollar for over a decade.

www.google.com

Now, I'm not going to try and explain modern monetary theory to you. I don't know if you'd understand it, and frankly, I'm not an expert.

What I do understand is that our ability to run on a deficit economy (meaning we hold far more debt than we make any given year) is because we have the global standard currency. All other currencies are valued according to ours.

That's why whenever we go through significant economic hardship....so does basically everyone else.

Now, what would happen if China, Russia, India, Brazil and the other BRICS were to manage to replace the US dollar with a currency under their control?

I don't claim to know for certain, but I would suggest it might be like all those trillions of dollars of debt suddenly coming due.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The more I think about it....the more this entire thread is a good example for the other thread on what's pulling America apart.

No less than 4 posters of the left side of the political aisle have suggested that "xenophobia" is somehow at the heart of this issue. They did so despite...

1. A complete lack of evidence for any xenophobia.
2. The politicians who wanted this Chinese company to set up shop were Republicans, the people who ousted them, being more concerned about environmental and labor law issues, were likely on the left side of the aisle....or at least left leaning.
3. The only example of "xenophobia" mentioned is a statement against "communism" which is an ideology...not a people...and worse, it's inaccurate. China is communist the way N Korea is a "democratic people's republic". China's economic model is closer to that of Nazi Germany than the Soviet Union.

Yet, despite this....the posters on the left who are decrying "xenophobia" are doing so because of a rather crippling tendency to reduce all perceived issues to matters of "phobias" instead of actually considering that perhaps political issues are far more complex than "the people who disagree are bad people, so I'm morally good by simply opposing them".

 

[YorkieGal]

The more I think about it....the more this entire thread is a good example for the other thread on what's pulling America apart.

No less than 4 posters of the left side of the political aisle have suggested that "xenophobia" is somehow at the heart of this issue. They did so despite...

1. A complete lack of evidence for any xenophobia.
2. The politicians who wanted this Chinese company to set up shop were Republicans, the people who ousted them, being more concerned about environmental and labor law issues, were likely on the left side of the aisle....or at least left leaning.
3. The only example of "xenophobia" mentioned is a statement against "communism" which is an ideology...not a people...and worse, it's inaccurate. China is communist the way N Korea is a "democratic people's republic". China's economic model is closer to that of Nazi Germany than the Soviet Union.

Yet, despite this....the posters on the left who are decrying "xenophobia" are doing so because of a rather crippling tendency to reduce all perceived issues to matters of "phobias" instead of actually considering that perhaps political issues are far more complex than "the people who disagree are bad people, so I'm morally good by simply opposing them".

Name calling is the reductionist strategy for those who lack insight. It's a shame because we could all learn so much if we were less emotive and viewed things more technically.

I have great insight into the SME and mid-corp business manufacturing and China is strangling these businesses all over the West. These businesses simply cannot compete with the corporate machine that is China and, even if they could avoid buy out, they struggle with time zone differences for processing etc.

Why this isn't concerning for others when pointed out, despite their lack of individual insight, is disappointing because it clearly shows an inability to recognize the overarching implications for our country.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Name calling is the reductionist strategy for those who lack insight. It's a shame because we could all learn so much if we were less emotive and viewed things more technically.

I have great insight into the SME and mid-corp business manufacturing and China is strangling these businesses all over the West. These businesses simply cannot compete with the corporate machine that is China and, even if they could avoid buy out, they struggle with time zone differences for processing etc.

Why this isn't concerning for others when pointed out, despite their lack of individual insight, is disappointing because it clearly shows an inability to recognize the overarching implications for our country.

I'm sure you've heard of Huawei phones, right?

 

[YorkieGal]

I'm sure you've heard of Huawei phones, right?

Yes

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes

Then you're raware why they aren't sold in the US? I'm certain there's people on this thread who have no clue...

It's not even a partisan issue. It would be a direct threat to national security to give China a microphone, camera, and GPS on US citizens all over the nation. That's not even considering the vast metadata they could aquire or propaganda they could direct at the population...

Did you think Jack Ma was going to resurface alive? I was giving him maybe 20% of turning up alive.