Methodist Court Rules on Homosexuality

[Western Deity]

"So when you say you have blasphemed, is this what you mean ?"

Let's say hypothetically, yes.

"The problem is, homosexuals do not consider it to be a sin"

This isn't part and parcel of being one, so I think it's wrong to blanket them; many homosexuals struggle with their faith and themselves because they know it is a sin yet cannot change their faith or their sexuality. But I do understand what you are saying.

Would you think it okay if a homosexual was in a leadership role providing they recognised it was a sin?

"I like you, WD, you're a good kid. You seem to have a good heart.. Off topic, I know, but you really do"

Thankyou , but I have no idea what you're basing that on.

 

[Existential1]

The problem is, homosexuals do not consider it to be a sin, when it so clearly is.

With respect.
This is the matter at debate.
I for one, for example, do not consider homsexuality a sin, any more nor less than my own sexuality is a sin.
All sexuality has great potential to lead one from devotion to God and Jesus: the way of righteousness is narrow indeed in sexuality; and in tumbling from that narrowness, we are all well loaded with sin.
I judge this fixation with the homosexual to be a stumbling block for Christianity: where you and I would seem to differ, only in what the risk of stumbling subsists in.
I believe that Christianity might wither if it cannot be equally inclusive towards the homosexual: you may believe that Christianity in some crucial manner ends, if such equal opportunity inclusion comes to be.
We are in debate, and the future of Christianity is what we address.

 

[J.A.I]

Let's say hypothetically, yes.

Once you come into knowledge of something, that is when you are held accountable for that sin. Can't remember the scripture.. I gotta find it.. It is in one of the 'ians'... you know.... Galatians, Corinthians, Colossians, and so on... lol... somewhere around there. Gotta find it for you.

But if you didn't know it was a sin, as I understand, you are not held accountable for it, but once you DO know, then that is when you are held accountable for it.

This isn't part and parcel of being one, so I think it's wrong to blanket them; many homosexuals struggle with their faith and themselves because they know it is a sin yet cannot change their faith or their sexuality. But I do understand what you are saying.

But the truth is.. they don't think it is a sin. In my Human Sexuality class last semester, a man who was a homosexual Catholic came to speak to our class. He doesn't see it as sin, and neither do the gay Christians on this board, or in this thread, so to say....

many homosexuals struggle with their faith and themselves because they know it is a sin yet cannot change their faith or their sexuality

.. That is fallible... because, as I said, many homosexuals do not acknowledge it as sin.

And to say one can't change their sexuality... you can There is a wonderful testimony on CF about a man who was gay, and God delivered him. If there is something that's got you in bondage, and you want deliverance.. you desire it TRUTHFULLY in your heart, God will deliver you. I am walking proof as are other Christians on this board. The link to that testimony is here - http://www.christianforums.com/t99297.

Would you think it okay if a homosexual was in a leadership role providing they recognised it was a sin?

Nope because even after you realize it as sin, you still must repent and be delivered. What would you say if a man was a child molester.. He knew it was wrong, but kept doing it. Would he be fit to serve in a leadership position at church ?

Thankyou , but I have no idea what you're basing that on.

Just a feeling I get

 

[Western Deity]

Obviously where we disagree on the homosexuality issue is just opinion, so I'll leave it at that; the church is your place, I'm not going to tell you how to run it. By the same token, homosexual rights should be respected by Christians, because outside of a Church the Bible is not the ultimate authority.

That post was pretty confusing, it looks like you got some quoting muddled or neglected to put quotation marks around them or something. Basically what I'm asking is seeing as blasphemy is the "unforgivable sin", does this mean that if one blasphemes while fully aware of its sinful nature, will that person be doomed to hell despite Jesus' sacrifice?

 

[Existential1]

To what extent, in the NT: does the Church view of homsexuality as a sin, reside in what Paul says?
If we laid aside what Paul says, for a moment in debate: what else in the NT gives ground for the current conservative position on homosexuality?
I say this because Paul is not really on my path of following Jesus: and where he might be seen to be in with the bricks of the Churches?
I see Paul as someone whose zeal drove him to kill and persecute Christians: and whom post-road-to-Damascus used that same zeal to attempt to direct and manage the development of the Christian Church?
I'm wary of the same-body-different-soul doctrine: I'm not sure that it safely communicates what God's forgiveness entails; Paul, for me, remains a loose cannon, before and after the road-to-Damscus experience.
It may be, that for Christianity to progress, the place of Paul need be re-examined: I fear that, once a persecutor, always a persecutor, is a possibility; where the current persecution of the homsexual within Christianity, may be somewhat laid at the door of Paul; and assessed as a continuation in that tradition in which he was pre-eminent.

 

[J.A.I]

That post was pretty confusing, it looks like you got some quoting muddled or neglected to put quotation marks around them or something.

I did; I haven't slept all night...

Mark 3:29 ISV
[ 29 ] But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of eternal sin."

To be honest, I haven't done enough studying on this topic to give you a 100% solid answer. I am not sure if the bloodshed of Jesus Christ cancels that once you accept Him as your Savior or not. Maybe someone else can help me out w/an answer to you

 

[Existential1]

I did; I haven't slept all night...

So what time is it where you are?
I'm at Brit time middday: 12 o'clock; noon.

 

[Western Deity]

You should sleep .

 

[J.A.I]

To what extent, in the NT: does the Church view of homsexuality as a sin, reside in what Paul says?
If we laid aside what Paul says, for a moment in debate: what else in the NT gives ground for the current conservative position on homosexuality?
I say this because Paul is not really on my path of following Jesus: and where he might be seen to be in with the bricks of the Churches?
I see Paul as someone whose zeal drove him to kill and persecute Christians: and whom post-road-to-Damascus used that same zeal to attempt to direct and manage the development of the Christian Church?
I'm wary of the same-body-different-soul doctrine: I'm not sure that it safely communicates what God's forgiveness entails; Paul, for me, remains a loose cannon, before and after the road-to-Damscus experience.
It may be, that for Christianity to progress, the place of Paul need be re-examined: I fear that, once a persecutor, always a persecutor, is a possibility; where the current persecution of the homsexual within Christianity, may be somewhat laid at the door of Paul; and assessed as a continuation in that tradition in which he was pre-eminent.

If we laid aside all authors in the Bible, we'd have nothing.

Remember...

2 Timothy 3:16-17 MKJV
[ 16 ] All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[ 17 ] that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

It is all God breathed and God inspired. What is in the Bible is in the Bible for a reason.

And as far as you doubting Paul's conversion, you're in a sense doubting God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 MKJV
[ 17 ] So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Jesus' bloodshed washed away my sin.. I am a new creature in Christ. So what about someone's past? Once you're in Christ, all of that does not matter. Once in Christ, we have crossed the Jordan.. we're no longer in Egypt.

 

[Western Deity]

^ Makes me want to start talking about the apocrypha, but I've wasted too much of your time and you need sleep .

 

[J.A.I]

Hahaha, sleep... I can't lol. I have to be up to get ready for classes at 6:20a, and it is 6:04a (Dallas, TX - CST) right now. I get to school at about 7:40a. Have a meeting with my advisor at 8a, then a final exam at 9:30a, then another final at 10:30a, then I work from 12p til 8p.. I will be kicking myself later.

 

[Western Deity]

7:40... that's crazy... High school is hard enough; I have to get up at 6am just to get there by 9 .

 

[J.A.I]

WD ~ Oooh, the Apocrypha.. I have always found that interesting ever since I attended Catholic school my junior year of high school. I found it odd. Our textbooks included an NASB Bible, and when I saw all these foreign books, I thought it strange. Soooo since then, I've been interested, but haven't pursued them yet. It is something I have to pray about. If it won't be beneficial to me, I don't want to study it. That's with actually any and everything.. If whatever it is is not beneficial to me in some form or fashion (whether it's reading materials, music, food, clothing, etc), I don't prefer to mess w/it.

But yea.. So, Western Deity.. are you really an atheist ?

 

[Western Deity]

Sorry, yeh .

 

[J.A.I]

Hmm.. well... ok... I'll pray for you though, have been for a little bit now.

Gosh this thread has gotten derailed BIGtime... Whoopie!

 

[Western Deity]

I think there'll be plenty more homosexuality threads in the future...

 

[J.A.I]

Gonna go get ready for my very long day... *praying for strength to get through this super long day*. I have to perform for my finals - one is vocal, one is guitar. I think I couldn't sleep b/c I was nervous... Who knows! Oh well, God bless you all, have a wonderful day / afternoon / night (wherever you are). I am off to start my day! Weeeeeeeeeee!

You are witnessing a sleep deprived Jai...

 

[Existential1]

Sorry, yeh .

What's an atheist WD?
If you do respond, I'll catch it later: my son wants the computer; so my virtual witnessing is done for now.
Your my first Aussie on CF, I think.
JAI is pretty cool: WYSIWYG.

Sorry about the Aussie mistake: you definitely are the first person on CF from Sierra Leone; that I have chatted to.

 

[J.A.I]

Wow, Existential1.. I thought you knew everything!

a·the·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

And I mean... color me clueless, but I have no clue what Sierra Leone is...

I am at school now... gotta love this hi speed internet!

And thanks for the compliment! I guess I am pretty WYSIWYGish

 

[JOYfulbeliever]

To refer to other posters in this manner: and to attempt to bend the living word to assistance in this task; is to defy the injunction of these forums; as to uniting all Christians in one body.
The witness of all must stand. Let the God beyond us, do all judging: in the mystery of his silence; and in the hearts of each of us.
End this undeclared civil war: this attempt at doctrinal cleansing; and end it now.
Let truth speak for itself, and the truth of each witness speak for itself: do not strive to break the bones of your Christian bretheren.

Excuse me? bend the living word? Refer to other posters? What poster exactly did I refer to? How did I bend the Living Word?

God's doing the judging. But He also clearly tells us what is right and wrong in His Word. Again, those Words are twisted all too often for someone to "justify" their sins because they do not want to give it up.

Give me a break.