Metaphoric, literal, or both?

[JohnDB]

How was the bible written to lead us to Jesus. Stop making statements and explain yourself.

God, the maker of heaven and earth, is good. God is so good that He is holy. Holy isn't just "set apart" for special use and without error it also is an active response to error.
When Adam and Eve sinned (didn't do as they were supposed to) and didn't die right away God made it clear that He forgave them. And they also realized that they were going to need something to protect themselves from God's holiness. God himself said that He was going to provide them with the protection from his holiness. "The Seed of the Woman" was what it was called in Genesis 3.
All throughout the Old Testament everyone was looking for this "Seed" that would allow man to be at peace with God once again and we could live in paradise with God.
All throughout the Old Testament (written over a span of 1400 years) descriptions of what this Savior was going to be like and the things that this Savior was going to do were told and explained. This Savior was going to, at first glance, look and appear to be just like the rest of us...(many people have claimed to be the Savior) The main difference was though that He truly wouldn't be a normal man. He would be fully God and fully man all at the same time. It would be "Immanuel" or God with us.

 

[solarwave]

Is the bible supposed to be thought of as metaphoric or literal? Like for example. In the bible it says that God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Would this looked at as literal or it is really just a metaphor explaining the power of god or something like that? I have always wondered about this but was not sure how to ask.

I take most of the Bibile as literal except things like the creation story and the book of Revelation. I think what the creation story means is true and because of this it can be used to explain the way the world is even though it is not literally true. I hope you get what I mean. Science can work with the Genesis story without problems. And the book of Revelation is obviously symbolic and confusing lol.

 

[Truthstriker]

Thanks for responding to my question. However when I meant that the bible was written 400 years after the death Jesus, I meant that the bible was put together at that time by a group of church officals. They cut hundreds of pages of information and edited things they did not like.

 

[drich0150]

I meant that the bible was put together at that time by a group of church officals. They cut hundreds of pages of information and edited things they did not like

.


Before the "Bible was assembled there were many many many "Books, letters, and just open ended accounts of events. Some of which were calibrated by other manuscripts and others were not.. What was finally assembled was the bulk of all of the "Verifiable" information. What was left was unsubstantiated doctrines, unverified books, and bits and pieces of old scripture that didn't really go with anything.

What we have is enough for you to start and maintain a relationship with God. Despite what may have been lost this is what is important.

 

[Truthstriker]

Are you that Jesus's Revival can be verified?.I am not trying to joke around I am serious?

 

[JohnDB]

Truthstriker,
You are claiming that the church Officials cut hundreds of pages out of the generally accepted writings that already had existed for a couple of hundred years (actually since 100 AD) of things that they didn't like somewhere during the fifth century AD.

And where did you get the precise information that you are wanting us to accept? What is the original source for this information?

Jesus revival was witnessed by over five hundred people. Including his own half brother. People in those days did not accept the testimony of women. IN the bible we see that a woman was the first to see Jesus alive. (You wouldn't include it in those days if it weren't true and you were trying to build a case)

Even the Jews of today accept the fact that Jesus existed. Jesus made the Roman records when he was crucified, had an out and didn't take it.

Usually five hundred witnesses of someone being ressurected from the dead is enough for historians.

 

[drich0150]

Are you that Jesus's Revival can be verified?.I am not trying to joke around I am serious?

Absolutely. think of all of the resistance and doubt people have in accepting his gospel today, now Imagine if he were recently put to death.. There would be wittinesses to his death right? Most of which would testify in court to his death.. Now where do you think the testimonies would be if after the wittinesses testified, they were knowingly put to death themselves? How many would die to be on record for a man's death?

The truth is many many "Christians" died by there testimonies, because the powers that be, wanted to crush this "religion" before it had a chance to get a foot hold. Why would most people die for the sake of the "truth?" What made these circumstances so different? Because it wasn't to testify to a death but a resurrection. After which many many people saw and spoke with Jesus and many more came to hear him speak.. Once they witnessed the Miracle of the resurrection they knew if they spoke of what they saw and spread the "Good news" That no matter what happened to this earthly body there souls would be saved.
Something more valuable than anything this life has to offer. It is through the blood of all of those who came before to preserve his words, that verify these texts..

What are you willing to die for? Money? a loved one? your beliefs as a Humanist?
If a religious man put a gun to your head and told you to swear allegiance to his god would you?
would you spread his god's word, works and name?
What if you were threatened by death again, but ordered to stop?
would you continue to spread this other mans god?
What if you were caught again and imprisoned for a few years and then released with the condition if you were caught spreading "that gods" message you would not only be put to death, but your entire family too, and in the worst and most in humane way possible..
on top of that all of this would take place in front of spectators in the biggest city in the world, in the largest theater while a sea of humanity cheers on your death and the death of all of your family?

Would you still believe in another mans religion like that? What about your own? would you face all of that to remain a humanist?
Thousands upon thousands died in the first century alone, just so others could hear the truth of the resurrection.

No other "message" in the history of the world, has persevered through such scrutiny and has been relatively unchanged.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Absolutely. think of all of the resistance and doubt people have in accepting his gospel today, now Imagine if he were recently put to death.. There would be wittinesses to his death right? Most of which would testify in court to his death.. Now where do you think the testimonies would be if after the wittinesses testified, they were knowingly put to death themselves? How many would die to be on record for a man's death?

The truth is many many "Christians" died by there testimonies, because the powers that be, wanted to crush this "religion" before it had a chance to get a foot hold. Why would most people die for the sake of the "truth?" What made these circumstances so different? Because it wasn't to testify to a death but a resurrection. After which many many people saw and spoke with Jesus and many more came to hear him speak.. Once they witnessed the Miracle of the resurrection they knew if they spoke of what they saw and spread the "Good news" That no matter what happened to this earthly body there souls would be saved.
Something more valuable than anything this life has to offer. It is through the blood of all of those who came before to preserve his words, that verify these texts..

What are you willing to die for? Money? a loved one? your beliefs as a Humanist?
If a religious man put a gun to your head and told you to swear allegiance to his god would you?
would you spread his god's word, works and name?
What if you were threatened by death again, but ordered to stop?
would you continue to spread this other mans god?
What if you were caught again and imprisoned for a few years and then released with the condition if you were caught spreading "that gods" message you would not only be put to death, but your entire family too, and in the worst and most in humane way possible..
on top of that all of this would take place in front of spectators in the biggest city in the world, in the largest theater while a sea of humanity cheers on your death and the death of all of your family?

Would you still believe in another mans religion like that? What about your own? would you face all of that to remain a humanist?
Thousands upon thousands died in the first century alone, just so others could hear the truth of the resurrection.

No other "message" in the history of the world, has persevered through such scrutiny and has been relatively unchanged.

AMEN!​

Well said!

ephraim

 

[Truthstriker]

Absolutely. think of all of the resistance and doubt people have in accepting his gospel today, now Imagine if he were recently put to death.. There would be wittinesses to his death right? Most of which would testify in court to his death.. Now where do you think the testimonies would be if after the wittinesses testified, they were knowingly put to death themselves? How many would die to be on record for a man's death?

The truth is many many "Christians" died by there testimonies, because the powers that be, wanted to crush this "religion" before it had a chance to get a foot hold. Why would most people die for the sake of the "truth?" What made these circumstances so different? Because it wasn't to testify to a death but a resurrection. After which many many people saw and spoke with Jesus and many more came to hear him speak.. Once they witnessed the Miracle of the resurrection they knew if they spoke of what they saw and spread the "Good news" That no matter what happened to this earthly body there souls would be saved.
Something more valuable than anything this life has to offer. It is through the blood of all of those who came before to preserve his words, that verify these texts..

What are you willing to die for? Money? a loved one? your beliefs as a Humanist?
If a religious man put a gun to your head and told you to swear allegiance to his god would you?
would you spread his god's word, works and name?
What if you were threatened by death again, but ordered to stop?
would you continue to spread this other mans god?
What if you were caught again and imprisoned for a few years and then released with the condition if you were caught spreading "that gods" message you would not only be put to death, but your entire family too, and in the worst and most in humane way possible..
on top of that all of this would take place in front of spectators in the biggest city in the world, in the largest theater while a sea of humanity cheers on your death and the death of all of your family?

Would you still believe in another mans religion like that? What about your own? would you face all of that to remain a humanist?
Thousands upon thousands died in the first century alone, just so others could hear the truth of the resurrection.

No other "message" in the history of the world, has persevered through such scrutiny and has been relatively unchanged.

I get your message, but you have still not verfied. And as to all the questions you asked( I know they are retorical but I want to answer them) Yes I would.

 

[Zebra1552]

Is the bible supposed to be thought of as metaphoric or literal? Like for example. In the bible it says that God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Would this looked at as literal or it is really just a metaphor explaining the power of god or something like that? I have always wondered about this but was not sure how to ask.

Last I checked, the Bible has many things in it- poems, prayers, historical narrative, parables, direct teaching, laws, etc. Each should be treated in its own context rather than taken out of it, which means that some places will be literal and some will not.

 

[drich0150]

I get your message, but you have still not verified.

ver⋅i⋅fy   /ˈvɛr

əˌfaɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ver-uh-fahy] Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object), -fied, -fy⋅ing. 1.to prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm; substantiate: Events verified his prediction. 2.to ascertain the truth or correctness of, as by examination, research, or comparison: to verify a spelling. 3.to act as ultimate proof or evidence of; serve to confirm.

By the very definitions of the word, these facts, (through my massage) have been verified. Take another good look at the definition of verify, and then look at all who have been slaughtered along with there families to prove these facts to be true..

No other single document in the history of the world has been bought and proved with so much blood. Let alone an entire book.

If it were necessary for the fans of Shakespeare to have been brutally slaughtered in the equivalent numbers as the 1st century Christians were, so they could simply pass his works from one willing hand to another.. His works would have died with in a few weeks. and we would no nothing of Shakespeare..

This "verification through blood" is the fastest way to find truth, and true allegiance. Only a fool gives up his life so readily for nothing. Unless you consider thousands of witlessness fools..

At 12 I know it would be easier to do so from your computer at home, than it would be to look at them or there families while being torn apart in some twisted sport, and make the same accusation. so let me put it to you another way.

If you were on trial for murder, how many wittinesses would it take to convict you of murder simply on there word? One maybe two? And as far as the United States Judicial system is concerned these two testimonies are enough to
1.to prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm; substantiate: Events verified his prediction. 2.to ascertain the truth or correctness of, as by examination, research, or comparison: to verify a spelling. 3.to act as ultimate proof or evidence of; serve to confirm.

Now imagine if there were thousands of Men women and children died in attempts to "Verify" this account of events.. And thousands more were willing to die to testify the very same account.. They would not only convict, I doubt if you'd ever see sun light again.

So you can't say the facts are not verified, and it be a factually true statement. At best all you can say truthfully is, you don't like or accept how these facts were verified. To that end, if that is the case, then please give and example of what it means to verify a fact to you. Also since we are going off the grid into your personal vocabulary, try and show an example of this type of verification. and where you saw it in practice.

 

[drich0150]

I know they are retorical but I want to answer them) Yes I would.

So just a blanket yes to all questions? ok lets look at what your saying yes to..

My original questions in blue, your response in red, and a follow up question from me in black.

What are you willing to die for?

Money? Yes
What good is dying for money if your too dead to spend it?

a loved one? Yes
This is an honorable thing, but is still easier said than done..

your beliefs as a Humanist? Yes
What about your beliefs as a Atheist a few days ago? Were you willing to die for them? What happened in the transition between atheism and humanism? Why are you loyal to this view to the point of death and not what you were interested in a few days ago?

If a religious man put a gun to your head and told you to swear allegiance to his god would you? Yes
What happened to dying for your beliefs?

would you spread his god's word, works and name? Yes

What if you were threatened by death again, but ordered to stop? yes

would you continue to spread this other mans god? Yes
Why?

What if you were caught again and imprisoned for a few years and then released with the condition if you were caught spreading "that gods" message you would not only be put to death, but your entire family too, and in the worst and most in humane way possible.. Would you still believe in another man religion like that?
Yes
Again why? if they are not your beliefs, and you were forced to claim allegiance to what the original man believes.. Now you are being faced with a much more horrible death than a simple gun to your head and now your family despite what they believe are being threaten with public execution as well.


What about your own?
Yes
Again your position as a humanist was only announced one or two days ago. don't you think it would be best to learn a little more about it or even other religions before being feed to hungry lions?

would you face all of that to remain a humanist?Yes
Let me rephrase.. Would you face all of that to remain an atheist?

Some times it's better to let a rhetorical question remain that way. I wanted to prove a point so, I only asked questions that you can't have a favorable response to.

Look I understand it may seem like your being backed into a corner here, and there is a reason for that. It's because I have debated this issue with men far greater than either of us can ever hope to be. So if you really want to start a debate, I will not pull many punches for the sake of your age or understanding of whatever religion it is you choose to align yourself with.
I am here to answer honest questions no matter how irreverent they seem to be. I do this so you can have the information you seek to make informed decision about who you want to serve. It is obvious that you are searching or seeking something greater than whatever it is you have found thus far.. Because you've changed theisms, you keep coming back with more questions, and the fact when you have made mistakes or incorrect assumptions, were correct, and you've for the most part excepted the correction.

But again if you want to make foolish statements, and turn this into something else, I most certainly can make you look the part, but for your sake and my own I will simply stop participating in your Q&A sessions, until a time where you being your search for real answers begins again. Or we can both stop posing for each other's pride and just continue leaving the silliness behind us.

 

[Radagast]

Thanks for responding to my question. However when I meant that the bible was written 400 years after the death Jesus, I meant that the bible was put together at that time by a group of church officals. They cut hundreds of pages of information and edited things they did not like.

This is of course false -- at least 85% of the New Testament was settled in the first century. Later debate centred on a few relatively short epistles (James was in, Barnabus was out, for example).

And we know they didn't edit, because the New Testament we have now matches the early manuscripts from before 400 A.D.

 

[Truthstriker]

So just a blanket yes to all questions? ok lets look at what your saying yes to..

My original questions in blue, your response in red, and a follow up question from me in black.

What are you willing to die for?
A: I am willing to die for my family.

Money? Yes
What good is dying for money if your too dead to spend it?
A:I would not die for money because Family is more important.

a loved one? Yes
This is an honorable thing, but is still easier said than done..

your beliefs as a Humanist? Yes
What about your beliefs as a Atheist a few days ago? Were you willing to die for them? What happened in the transition between atheism and humanism? Why are you loyal to this view to the point of death and not what you were interested in a few days ago?
Atheism is a broad term consisting of many ideals. A form of humanism is one of them. I simply wanted to be more specifc in my ideals.

If a religious man put a gun to your head and told you to swear allegiance to his god would you? Yes
No I would not because I would not truely believe in god.

would you spread his god's word, works and name? Yes
No

What if you were threatened by death again, but ordered to stop? yes
I would still spread my ideals.

would you continue to spread this other mans god? Yes
Why?
A:no I would not.

What if you were caught again and imprisoned for a few years and then released with the condition if you were caught spreading "that gods" message you would not only be put to death, but your entire family too, and in the worst and most in humane way possible.. Would you still believe in another man religion like that?
Yes
Again why? if they are not your beliefs, and you were forced to claim allegiance to what the original man believes.. Now you are being faced with a much more horrible death than a simple gun to your head and now your family despite what they believe are being threaten with public execution as well.
No I would not.


What about your own?
Yes
Again your position as a humanist was only announced one or two days ago. don't you think it would be best to learn a little more about it or even other religions before being feed to hungry lions?
Once again my form of humanism is a more specific form of atheistim.

would you face all of that to remain a humanist?Yes
Let me rephrase.. Would you face all of that to remain an atheist?
Yes I would.

Some times it's better to let a rhetorical question remain that way. I wanted to prove a point so, I only asked questions that you can't have a favorable response to.

Look I understand it may seem like your being backed into a corner here, and there is a reason for that. It's because I have debated this issue with men far greater than either of us can ever hope to be. So if you really want to start a debate, I will not pull many punches for the sake of your age or understanding of whatever religion it is you choose to align yourself with.
I am here to answer honest questions no matter how irreverent they seem to be. I do this so you can have the information you seek to make informed decision about who you want to serve. It is obvious that you are searching or seeking something greater than whatever it is you have found thus far.. Because you've changed theisms, you keep coming back with more questions, and the fact when you have made mistakes or incorrect assumptions, were correct, and you've for the most part excepted the correction.

But again if you want to make foolish statements, and turn this into something else, I most certainly can make you look the part, but for your sake and my own I will simply stop participating in your Q&A sessions, until a time where you being your search for real answers begins again. Or we can both stop posing for each other's pride and just continue leaving the silliness behind us.

Let me rethink.
I am truely sorry. I was very sleeply was not thinking clearly. It was stupid on my part and and I am sorry for being so foolish.

 

[drich0150]

There is nothing to be sorry about.. Just keep trying and asking honest questions don't let your pride get in the way of your quest for seeking answers to those questions. that's all, Even if it does flare up I'll be waiting when you want to start asking honest questions again..

 

[ephraimanesti]

Are you that Jesus's Revival can be verified?.I am not trying to joke around I am serious?

MY FRIEND--After comparing Luke 22:54-62 and John 20:19 with Acts Chapter 2, consider the following question:

"What changed these very ordinary men (who were such cowards that they did not dare stand too near the cross in case they got involved) into heroes who would stop at nothing including horrible martyrdoms? A swindle? Hallucination? Spooky nonsense in a darkened room? Or Somebody quietly doing what He said He'd do--walk right through death?"

J. B. Phillips​

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[jellybean99]

This "discussion" has jumped off track, in part, because the OP's question was misunderstood. When asking if others believed the Bible is metaphoric or literal, it is clear Truthstriker meant to differentiate between allegorical (a story meant to convey a moral lesson or divine truth) and literal (events that actually happened as they are recorded in the Bible). Metaphors (i.e. calling Christians lambs) abound in the Bible, and should not be seen as the opposite of literal in this discussion.

Given the parameters of the intended question, the expected result would be that we would get responses that indicated that people believe that all Biblical events are literal when the metaphors are properly understood (a purely Conservative view), primarily allegorical (a Liberal perspective) or a mix of both literal events and allegory (Pedagogical - to teach).

Where this discussion goes from here is up to you. You can continue to debate each other's world/faith views or you can examine the Bible in front of you and state your positions in a forthright manner.